More Babcock Shenanigans

SirKillalot

Registered User
Feb 27, 2008
6,124
480
Norway
Tell that to Commodore, whose abuse by Babcock had nothing to do with his on ice play.
I don't believe one single word coming out of Commodore 64's mouth.
He thinks Babcock was the one deciding to sign him just to bench him and that was his plan before he got there. Nothing this immature tool says can be taken seriously, he is still a child.

Fact is Commodore was bad in Detroit and he was no better in Tampa after, and thus his NHL career ended cause he sucked. He should praise whoever he believe in, that he won a cup while being on a team that went all the way.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,843
11,679
He's essentially having the teammates and trainers rip into each other rather than doing it directly himself.

I don't know why he went about it that way.
Break them down and build them up and I kind of get it but there is a time and place and limits for that type of coaching or leadership and Babcock clearly crossed the line here as my example is from the military not sportsworld.
 

Nogatco Rd

Pierre-Luc Dubas
Apr 3, 2021
2,984
5,592
It’s all been out there and I also question why a guy is worried about a book while still playing
Everyone needs hobbies. Joseph Woll plays piano, Dustin Byfuglien fishes, Jacob Trouba took a painting class and has had his art* exhibited.

Most guys in the league prob spend their time at home sitting on their ass watching tv and playing video games, good for Kadri for doing something that uses his brain.


*Trouba’s artistic process: dress up in hockey gear, slather himself in paint and leap shoulder first into a canvas
IMG_6978.jpeg
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
28,191
27,404
Montreal
Pro sports has a long history of tough-as-nails coaches who push players to succeed by pressuring/yelling/bullying. In most cases, players look back and see a strategy behind the intensity. Turns out it was only business. Like Ken Dryden said about Scotty Bowman, they hated him for 364 days a year, but loved him the day they lifted the Cup. Tough coach, but nothing personal.

Babcock's problem is that his extreme behaviour isn't tied to any legit strategy and it appears VERY personal. GMs believed his twisted, abusive personality was part of an holistic coaching system, but sometimes being an asshole isn't a methodology. Sometimes you're just an asshole.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
52,255
52,295
Winston-Salem NC
i dont blame guys for not wanting to play under him. im surprised we dont hear much about his time in detroit
I think you would have if people didn't dismiss the stuff that Commodore was saying as just the whining of someone bitter that they're not good anymore and are mad that their 15 minutes of fame are up.
 
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WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,569
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How was this guy coach for so long?
I'd say he was a bit ahead of the curve in terms of the 2000s and prioritizing speed/skill over goonery. Went to the Finals in his first ever NHL season with a mediocre roster (and Giguere). Leveraged that into the Wings job with a stacked roster, leading to a Cup and great success to really establish reputation as a best in the business type, leveraged into Canada jobs where he did the impossible and won with a short tournament with like 15 Hall of Famers, leveraged into the Leafs job with their very talented young core, continued regular season winnings to buy enough time until act wore off. Look up and it's an 18 year NHL coaching tenure.

When someone has a lot of success, it's easy to ignore [that guy is just mad that he sucks and couldn't make the lineup], brush aside [all coaches do that] or rationalize [it's tough, but it leads to good results]. It also causes other players to stay quiet because they don't want to be viewed as problems/whiners themselves. I had no idea about his treatment of Johan Franzen until after the stuff with Marner. You can be both a bad person and good at your job, and unfortunately a lot of people will conflate that the former leads to the latter... but color me skeptical that whatever mind-games with players aside, that you need to berate arena staff in order to be a good hockey coach.

One would have thought after four years that he'd maybe self-reflect and change some of his behavior when he was hired by Columbus. Then the whole nonsense with the phone thing occurred, suggesting he probably just fundamentally doesn't give a f*ck and is who he is. Him being a supposed "advocate" for mental health makes all of it so much more strange. I can differentiate a player that toes the line and sometimes acts recklessly like Trouba that can be a good guy off the ice, but it's hard to imagine in someone like Babcock's case how he is able to reconcile his behavior and supposed advocacy in his mind.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
86,721
144,327
Bojangles Parking Lot
I think people have said this is basically Babcock’s MO.

In Detroit guys like Chelios never had problems with him but he brutally targeted fringier players or staff.

The stories Franzen bullying should have kept him from getting the Columbus job, why would you unleash this on your employees?

And Babcock’s “who me?” and claims to be “an advocate for mental health” just make it cartoonishly worse.




This sort of thing, especially the part about popping off at seemingly random people in the arena, really makes me wonder if some of these guys have undiagnosed long-term mental decline that people chalk up to just being a hardass.

There are a lot of stories about Eddie Shore behaving like a total psychopath when he went into management. I have a strong suspicion that it connected to the head injuries he experienced not only as a player but as a child in a non-hockey related context. A guy who at one time was extremely intense but not weirdly aggressive gradually became a monster and everyone was like “ha ha, that old time hockey!”
 

Nerowoy nora tolad

Registered User
May 9, 2018
1,448
677
Sunshine Coast, Australia
I don't believe one single word coming out of Commodore 64's mouth.
He thinks Babcock was the one deciding to sign him just to bench him and that was his plan before he got there. Nothing this immature tool says can be taken seriously, he is still a child.

Fact is Commodore was bad in Detroit and he was no better in Tampa after, and thus his NHL career ended cause he sucked. He should praise whoever he believe in, that he won a cup while being on a team that went all the way.

I just always hated Commodore for refusing a fan petition to wear 64 when he got to Detroit.
I also don't buy that Babcock is ‘old school’. Even Chris Chelios, who played for numerous tyrants, said Babcock was on a different level in terms of disrespecting people.
And therein lies the difference between Babcock and, say, Keenan or Bowman. The latter two played vicious mind games but everything was done for a hockey related purpose. Keenan and Bowman are generally regarded as very nice people away from the rink.
Babcock? He’d consistently **** people over, hockey and not hockey related, to feed his own ego.

I’m fairly certain Scotty Bowman was as bad - if not worse…Cup rings tend to make some forget that.

Yeah, about Bowman:

Mike Kuta, a former Gulf War marine reconnaissance specialist, was hired by the Wings to serve alongside public relations director John Hahn shortly into Bowman's tenure. It didn't take long for Kuta to get a second form of military education from Bowman-and to learn the best way to make him like you, like McGuire did, was to stand up to him.

"I remember one time he was sitting in the coach's room, before or after a practice. All the coaches are in there watching video," Kuta said. “I had a bunch of requests that I needed to go over with him. If he knew you needed something, he would kind of blow you off. I was standing in the doorway. He just kept cutting me off, going, 'One minute, one minute.' And then he looked at me and he goes, 'Go get me a coffee.' I was like, 'What?' I said it out loud, even though I didn't intend to, I said, 'f*** off.' It just came out. The second I said it, I thought, 'Oh Christ, this is the end of my career. I just told Scotty Bowman to f*** off.' My whole future flashed in front of my eyes, I'm going to be in the unemployment line forever. And he laughed out loud. After that, he was nicer to me. It was almost like he tested people. Our relationship from then on was better."

Creepy beyond all belief, especially considering all of the beforementioned stories about Keenan/Babcock/etc. all relate to inappropriate conduct towards people they are supposed to be managing (players, team staff, etc.). Kuta was part of the PR team, not anywhere near Bowmans lane.


 
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Doc McKenna

A new era 2021
Jan 5, 2009
11,975
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I think a key lesson is to never rank anything for Mike Babcock.

“How would you rank the Star Wars films?”

“Well, obviously Empire Strikes Back first…then maybe…..wait a sec, are those the directors of all of the movies behind that curtain?”

“…..maybe?”



I heard the Marner thing but not the training staff thing.
Guy was always someone I disliked as a player. I am surprised he did as well as a coach, but having that era detroit can certainly pad ones numbers. Torts seems sane by comparison and boobcock reminds me of michel therrien. Tormenting your players for some "psychological" reason they justify as team building.
 

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