Post-Game Talk: Montreal Canadiens at New York Rangers 10/8/17

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I didn't watch the game, just seen highlights and looking at the numbers now.
Game was pretty even in xGF% but we were completely hammered in shots.
I'm guessing our D system looked much improved, our transitions were crap and our O was decent? Is that close to the truth?

I thought both goalies were excellent, but I'm not sure our offense (or theirs) was particularly good as opposed to defensive errors, so it was bad defense as opposed to good offense that generated the scoring chances for both teams in this game, I thought. Transitions were still a problem, especially the first period. That and the defense were not good, but certainly better than the first two games. Also doesn't hurt that the Habs are really bad. I'm not convinced the defense is fixed, certainly not with a guy we are counting on to be a top 4D sitting in the press box but it's an improvement from the prior two games.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I specifically said "D system" for a reason, last nights lineup was very far from optimal.

 

[Ola]

Would you say no to 8,5 to 17 million dollars? If it is one or two years that we are talking about. Very few people would. An interesting tidbit. Hank has played a tad over 2 games with a GAA of 3,43 yet with a shutout already earned, sometimes stats are really deceiving.

Yeah its true, its a lot of money. OTOH, Hank got an extremely big ego. Would he sit on the bench flashing that smile being hated in NY just to collect that check?

 

[Larrybiv]

Max, you do realize you're criticizing people for getting upset after two bad losses....while you have just declared us Playoff eligible after one (our only) win...right? I appreciate you're optimism, but you're also jumping to rash conclusions based on an infinitesimal sample size.....and throwing board members under the bus while doing it.

Albeit what you say is true (in regard to Maximus) but there is a ton of room under that bus. Plenty of room saved for those people that overreact to abysmal games 1 and 2. Jeez, why panick? Not going to NOT make the PO's just because we lost to Colorado and a good Toronto team.
Yeah, I get it we played like crap. Does everyone here think AV won't get the ship righted? This team has too much leadership and pride to continue to play without a purpose. Messages needed to be sent, just hopefully received. There will be adjustments to the lineup.....don't jump, not just yet. And if anyone does.....so be it. Not all directed at you revel.

 

[Fitzy]

I'd rather ADA play a few games of top minutes in Hartford rather than be on the bench... if Holden plays his way back out of the lineup call him up, until then... none of this 4th line wing shit he was playing yesterday.

Doubt Smith sits for too long, should go back in for Kampfer soon.

I get the feeling I'm going to be raving about Buchnevich all year.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

My moves as a GM would be the following:

- Chytil back to CZ
- ADA to Hartford (Waiver exempt)
- Call up Lettieri/Nieves or claim Adam Cracknell off waivers

 

[Synergy27]

One thing that bothers me about this is that some people seem to think that because he was a slow starter that picked up his game in the past, he will pick up his game in the present. Two elephants in the room are being ignored when this assumption is made:

#1 - His lack of consistency and numerous poor showings over the last 2 seasons.
#2 - His age.

Basically, his reflexes are declining and he doesn't see the puck as well as he used to. He's not quite the same Hank. This needs to be acknowledged. It hurts us because he is not Brodeur playing behind a trap. He's a reflex goalie that plays deep in the net. With his physical gifts on the decline, the team is starting to suffer.

But when someone who disagrees with you reads this, you will be accused of saying that Hank is "done" and needs to retire.

Bigger topic here, but I think message boards, Twitter, etc., force conversation down these black and white paths because a large portion of human communication is neglected online. It's really difficult to convey nuance in a couple of sentences and when your audience can't cue off of other things (tone of voice, body language).

Hank isn't done. He's also not carrying this team on his back to the ECF. He's no longer the enormous X-factor we've all grown used to him being, but he's still a competent NHL goalie.

 

[Chimpradamus]

That Weber's "game" and the reason why he has such a fearsome reputation, is because his cheap shots goes uncalled by the refs. It's ridiculous. The league is giving tons of penalties now for cheap plays, but apparently not if you have "earned" your right to cheap shot opponents right in front of the refs. You mentioned the cross check to the back of Buchnevich and, well, it's a farce really. How about calling a cheap shot a cheap shot once and then - an penalizing it?

Imagine if Weber had Avery's reputation. He would end each season with 400 PIM. Why does Weber have such a reputation to be tough to play against? Because he can murder you right in front of the refs, even if you don't have the puck. Yeah, it's pretty tough to face a player under those circumstances.

I still remember game 2(?) of the playoffs against the Habs last spring. Weber murdered one of our guys on open ice, with a cross check to the head, right in front of all refs. No call, the Habs scored. Nice.

 

[offdacrossbar]

the habs are bad. thats not a good team. at all. price is excellent tho. good win against a bad opponent.

AV gonna do his best to play his boys on D. that means staal, holden and kampfer. ADA gonna get mcilrathed. kid needs to play. smith already in the chateau bow wow.

still need to finish quality chances more. rick nash invisible again. 3 games no points -2 13 (kinda) shots.

i so want AV gone it isnt funny. let lindy coach the team.

 

[AWall THE CLAW]

Very obviously a team that's a work-in-progress with new guys up front and new defensive pairs. So were the 2011-12 Rangers who started 3-3-3 with some head-scratching performances and the 2013-14 squad that looked absolutely lost at 2-6-0 in October. The seasons that followed weren't exactly unsuccessful. I think the last couple of years, not to mention a few back in the Renney/Torts eras (anyone remember Zherdev and Co. at 10-2-1? Or the one non-playoff Rangers team in the last decade+ at 7-1-0?), have shown us that flying out of the gate isn't everything. It's a win so I'll look at the positives.

-KZB is legit
-the PP is going to be lethal
-Getting Fast back soon will mean the world to the team

 

[Off Sides]

I am not a big AV fan, but Smith has been bad. DeAngelo needs to manage the puck better. Skjei has been spotty in coverage. Shattenkirk does not offer much defensive zone stability.

I really can't give AV to much grief over his choices. I don't think long term Staal should be where he was for this game but he's been a settling player compared to the others to start this season.

This game was Lundqvist saving them for the most part, so it's not like these pair changes, who was scratched, who got more or less ice time, none of that accomplished all that much but I at least understand why the changes were made.

What they do now? I don't know, it's not just the D men who are allowing for all the chances against, the forwards are also guilty. This team needs to develop a system and players that work in that system to move forward.

 

[Avery16]

the habs are bad. thats not a good team. at all. price is excellent tho. good win against a bad opponent.

AV gonna do his best to play his boys on D. that means staal, holden and kampfer. ADA gonna get mcilrathed. kid needs to play. smith already in the chateau bow wow.

still need to finish quality chances more. rick nash invisible again. 3 games no points -2 13 (kinda) shots.

i so want AV gone it isnt funny. let lindy coach the team.

When it was between AV and Ruff, I wanted Ruff. However, AV came here and did great right off the bat. Ruff went to Dallas and struggled with a pretty decent roster. I like that we have him on staff, but I don’t think he’s a better coach than AV for today’s game.

 

[kovazub94]

the habs are bad. thats not a good team. at all. price is excellent tho. good win against a bad opponent.

AV gonna do his best to play his boys on D. that means staal, holden and kampfer. ADA gonna get mcilrathed. kid needs to play. smith already in the chateau bow wow.

still need to finish quality chances more. rick nash invisible again. 3 games no points -2 13 (kinda) shots.

i so want AV gone it isnt funny. let lindy coach the team.

I don't know what you're watching. Last game he had at least two prime scoring chances for himself and set up his linemates for a few more. Your tunnel vision amazes me.

 

[kovazub94]

But when someone who disagrees with you reads this, you will be accused of saying that Hank is "done" and needs to retire.

Bigger topic here, but I think message boards, Twitter, etc., force conversation down these black and white paths because a large portion of human communication is neglected online. It's really difficult to convey nuance in a couple of sentences and when your audience can't cue off of other things (tone of voice, body language).

Hank isn't done. He's also not carrying this team on his back to the ECF. He's no longer the enormous X-factor we've all grown used to him being, but he's still a competent NHL goalie.

Interesting point. Being a good poster in general is an acquired skill - i.e. being able to translate nuances of a point without a help of tone, body etc, - that could actually be leant. The way English is being taught in school (English here in U.S. but any it obviously could be any spoken language depending on the location) should be modified to address exactly this.

 

[nevesis]

With his physical gifts on the decline, the team is starting to suffer.

Have any data to back up that claim? Because all the statistics say otherwise.

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Have any data to back up that claim? Because all the statistics say otherwise.

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Not that this stat is tracked, but this is the 3rd game in a row where he seems to struggle to track the puck post-save. That's something that started creeping into his game about 2 years ago and is getting worse.

What Revel is referring to, I think, is that he seems to be a tad slower with his reflexes which was his strongest asset. I doubt there is a site tracking that, but just because it isn't tracked doesn't mean it's not true. Not everything is explained by stats. The infamous "eye test" can convince fans that he is not the goalie he was a few years ago. He seems off his game more often than in the past. The defense is better than it was 5 years ago, Lundqvist is getting older and isn't at the same level anymore.

 

[Levitate]

That Weber's "game" and the reason why he has such a fearsome reputation, is because his cheap shots goes uncalled by the refs. It's ridiculous. The league is giving tons of penalties now for cheap plays, but apparently not if you have "earned" your right to cheap shot opponents right in front of the refs. You mentioned the cross check to the back of Buchnevich and, well, it's a farce really. How about calling a cheap shot a cheap shot once and then - an penalizing it?

Imagine if Weber had Avery's reputation. He would end each season with 400 PIM. Why does Weber have such a reputation to be tough to play against? Because he can murder you right in front of the refs, even if you don't have the puck. Yeah, it's pretty tough to face a player under those circumstances.

I still remember game 2(?) of the playoffs against the Habs last spring. Weber murdered one of our guys on open ice, with a cross check to the head, right in front of all refs. No call, the Habs scored. Nice.

Agreed, it's frustrating. Miller gets called for a far more benign crosscheck in previous games but it's a penalty ostensibly because he could get an advantage in front of the net, but Weber revenge clocks a defenseless guy in front of the ref and nothing.

Really my issue is...either let all these guys play and let things get rough for everyone, or call it fair. Don't favor some guys and call everyone else for the same stuff

Not that this stat is tracked, but this is the 3rd game in a row where he seems to struggle to track the puck post-save. That's something that started creeping into his game about 2 years ago and is getting worse.

What Revel is referring to, I think, is that he seems to be a tad slower with his reflexes which was his strongest asset. I doubt there is a site tracking that, but just because it isn't tracked doesn't mean it's not true. Not everything is explained by stats. The infamous "eye test" can convince fans that he is not the goalie he was a few years ago. He seems off his game more often than in the past. The defense is better than it was 5 years ago, Lundqvist is getting older and isn't at the same level anymore.

Yeah I love Lundqvist but I don't think we should totally make excuses for him. His play hasn't been as good lately, and part of that is just aging. I'm not sure the defense is better, at least last years defense. Basically, he's still a very good goalie when he's getting clear lines on the puck. I thought he looked solid last night and was directing rebounds better, not looking surprised at shots, not fighting things off as much, just a lot calmer and confident in net, but I think he was seeing a lot of shots and that helped build up his confidence as well. When he has to make reflex saves on shots he can't see, he's fighting it a lot more than he used to.

Basically it just means that I don't think Lundqvist can be the super star carry the team no matter what guy, but that the team D has to be good enough in front of him to just give him a bit of help

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'd rather ADA play a few games of top minutes in Hartford rather than be on the bench... if Holden plays his way back out of the lineup call him up, until then... none of this 4th line wing **** he was playing yesterday.

Doubt Smith sits for too long, should go back in for Kampfer soon.

I get the feeling I'm going to be raving about Buchnevich all year.

Sending ADA to Hartford would be dumb but with the Coach we have, it may be necessary.

The Toronto game is going to buy Staal an even longer leash which is unfortunate.

 

[NCRanger]

Probably not the most popular opinion here, but while I thought Hank had a GOOD game, I didn't think it was a STELLAR game. I still would have given him the #1 star, but I didn't think it was a lights out dominating performance. Of course, this is going to be interpreted that I'm a "hater". He had a very good game and overcame the gaffes which luckily were overturned. Something was mentioned by the SN crew (Garry Galley, I think) that Hank's glove doesn't close. Seeing him make saves with the glove hand that just bounce out gives some credence to the statement.

Been very impressed with Zibanejad so far. Haven't seen him go missing yet. Hopefully that keeps up.

Another unpopular opinion. I think Shattenkirk is a disaster in the defensive end of the ice. There's no doubt that he's an elite offensive minded player, but have not been impressed with him defensively.

 

[Leonardo87]

I saw a decent amount of people chose Nash also. I thought he had a great game, with some really good chances, and he was really getting into the middle of things, and crashing in front of the net. His PK'ing was strong also. I like to see him get on the score-sheet but think once he pots a goal, the flood gates will open. With the success of KZB, would be great to get someone like him going as well, and can get back to that depth scoring. D was much better but still needs to get the puck out of their zone better.

 

[Ori]

AV played DeAgenlo on PP TOI 1:37 TOI 3:45

AV trust young players - I don`t want Lias A. to make the team next year if AV still coaching.

 

[gorangers0525]

Shattenkirk has been no better or worse than captain McD who’s gotten walked more than a few times, and has given up the front of the net like it’s not even his job. Whole team needs to get it’s shit together without the puck.

 

[Ori]

not sure if this is sarcasm

C. Julien would help David D. packing his bags - get him out of New York so no sarcasm.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Shattenkirk has been no better or worse than captain McD who’s gotten walked more than a few times, and has given up the front of the net like it’s not even his job. Whole team needs to get it’s **** together without the puck.

wow. so true. 27 has been porous as anyone.

and im starting to buy onto the AV not playing kids narrative. just seems his default reaction is to play vets over kids rather than let them develop. same story we heard from the nucks fans.

so sick of the AV thing.

 

[TS Quint]

Great, my most liked post is me screwing up a post. Thanks guys!

But I really want to know how Skjei has fallen down to #6 in TOI. Seems some of you don't believe it, still calling him a top 4 player. Is it just AV is just so mean to young players?