Speculation: Monahan forward most likely dealt first

[ole ole]

Monahan is a tier lower than Lindholm, I’m a flames fan I’ve seen both I don’t need an explanation.

Not this season.

 

[TS Quint]

Only 3 centers on the market this trade deadline with at least 8 serious bidders. Colorado, Boston, Winnipeg, Rangers, Vancouver, Toronto, Oilers, Jersey. etc..

Habs should get big for Monahan. He's having the best season of all three at a fraction the caphit.

How do you know there are only 3 Centres available this year?

 

[ole ole]

Lebrun is one of the most respected insiders in the game and i already said i dont care if we get a 1st we already got one for Monahan i always said he will return a 2nd and maybe a small add if he returns more great if not who cares we already own Calgarys pick the rest is bonus

The FIRST was a bonus. The rest just puts in a bigger hurt.

 

[Hunter368]

How do you know there are only 3 Centres available this year?

Not sure how anyone can conclude there is only three centers available at the TDL when its Jan 31st.

 

[Miller Time]

Interesting from my post that's what you concluded, bc my post was neutral at worst and leaning towards agreeing that there will be a segment of buyers at the TDL who will pay more for Monahan......due to his low cap hit. How is that in anyway downplaying or insulting Monahan as a player?

In fact I went out of my way in that post, to say "points aside".

Do you agree that the available cap space a team has a available might influence if said team would be able to trade for Monahan? Obviously yes that is true, this is no insult to Monahan

Do you agree that a team with cap issues (less available cap space) likely will have to pay a higher price for Monahan bc he may be the only player available that would fit into their cap structure? Obviously yes that is true, this is no insult to Monahan

Do you agree a team with no cap issues would have other options to add players at the TDL? Obviously yes that is true, this is no insult to Monahan

Rereading my post the only even remotely possible thing any Habs fan could disagree with is my statement there was "other more attractive options out there". Only way anyone could take offence to that is you truly believe Monahan is the best TDL trade any team could target to fill all their needs regarding of position.........and if thats your opinion, well lets just say no point debating or discussing that with you. Feels like your looking for offences when none exist.

citing that his cap hit is "his most attractive quality" does not sound "neutral" to me. Perhaps you didn't mean what you wrote, but it is what you wrote and what i responded to.

Obviously cap hit is a very important aspect of any player acquisition or evaluation in a cap system. Seems like a pretty silly thing to have to clarify.

Player X will be "more/less" valuable because of their cap hit is a completely different statement than "the most attractive quality of player X is their cap hit". English language being what it is.

But don't worry. no offense taken here. I've been around this site a long time. Lots of bad takes or inaccurate statements get made... it would be foolish of anyone to take offense to them.

i'm not looking for anything. I read posts, comment/respond to some. Point out great takes and bad takes a like... agree or disagree with takes... and yes, at times call out silly or stupid statements when they occur. If you take offense to the inaccuracy of your post being pointed out, perhaps take the time to post what you mean and own when you make a bad take or post something obviously wrong without taking such offense to it

 

[ole ole]

I've said this before, likely the most attractive quality about Monahan (points aside) is his small cap hit. Teams with major cap problems will find him more attractive then teams with more cap space do likely, teams will more cap space likely will target more attractive options out there and looks like there could be a list of them at center and more at other positions (based on needs/fit). Teams with less cap space will likely offer more for Monahan, then any team with lots of cap space would (Lebrun commented on this regarding the Jets, who have lots of cap space).

Well if you take away PTS ,Face off % and now Small cap hit. What else is left.

 

[General Fanager]

Not sure how anyone can conclude there is only three centers available at the TDL when its Jan 31st.

that fit the usual criteria thats all the names that have been out there. Its even been out there that Lindholm might re-sign so theres that

Of course there will be more at the deadline but who knows.....

 

[Hunter368]

citing that his cap hit is "his most attractive quality" does not sound "neutral" to me. Perhaps you didn't mean what you wrote, but it is what you wrote and what i responded to.

Obviously cap hit is a very important aspect of any player acquisition or evaluation in a cap system. Seems like a pretty silly thing to have to clarify.

Player X will be "more/less" valuable because of their cap hit is a completely different statement than "the most attractive quality of player X is their cap hit". English language being what it is.

But don't worry. no offense taken here. I've been around this site a long time. Lots of bad takes or inaccurate statements get made... it would be foolish of anyone to take offense to them.

i'm not looking for anything. I read posts, comment/respond to some. Point out great takes and bad takes a like... agree or disagree with takes... and yes, at times call out silly or stupid statements when they occur. If you take offense to the inaccuracy of your post being pointed out, perhaps take the time to post what you mean and own when you make a bad take or post something obviously wrong without taking such offense to it

You quote part of my sentence and ignore the other part to fit your argument, where I said clearly "points aside". Do you understand what I'm saying by saying that? I'll repeat exactly what I posted so you read it again:

"I've stated this before, likely the most attractive quality about Monahan (points aside) is his small cap hit."

Sounds like you don't understand what's being said there, bc that isn't a insult or slight in the least. In fact I stated "points aside" acknowledging his production. Outside of his production, damn right his eventually cap hit is his most attractive quality to any TDL team wanting him, how can anyone argue to debate or feel slighted by that point? His cap hit is going to be tiny at the TDL, so outside of his production, yes 100% his cap hit is a HUGE positive bc he can be fit into almost any teams cap at the TDL.

If you disagree with my point, tell me what single quality of Monahan's is more attractive to a TDL cap strapped team and you cannot say anything about his production bc I stated "points aside". I'm curious what single quality is more important/valuable then his tiny cap hit (not including his production).

 

[Hunter368]

Well if you take away PTS ,Face off % and now Small cap hit. What else is left.

I acknowledged his PTS/production, after that 100% his most valuable quality is his tiny cap hit. No question it is.

FO%? No
Defensive play? No
Leadership? No
Skating? No
Production? I stated that

His cap hit is hugely valuable, along with his production which is exactly what I stated.

 

[Hunter368]

that fit the usual criteria thats all the names that have been out there. Its even been out there that Lindholm might re-sign so theres that

Of course there will be more at the deadline but who knows.....

Jan 31st is the point, we don't even know who will be in vs out of the playoffs yet so no one should conclude there will be only three available. Others will be available, maybe some won't be, some might be injured and unavailable for trade. Point was WAY to early to assume three centers only at the TDL

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

So no one, just the shill. I throw this on the pile of LeBrun shilling like PLD is going to Montreal or nothing. Or Hughes was totally offered a 1st for Anderson but he turned it down.

PLD to Montreal was a complete mess and it was almost every insider calling it even Friedman had Dubois to the Habs 95% at the end we dodged a bullet so im happy about that

Personally i would easily trade Anderson for a 1st he sucks 80% of the time and is overpaid so i hope Hughes didnt turn down an offer like that but how can you call out Lebrun on it when we dont know if he did or not ? I know Gorton talked about us getting bigger when he arrived so maybe he didnt want to trade Josh

 

[HighLifeMan]

Not this season.

"Not this past two weeks" would be a more apt statement.

 

[General Fanager]

"Not this past two weeks" would be a more apt statement.

He has looked better since Slaf was put on his line but he still has had a good season.

 

[General Fanager]

Jan 31st is the point, we don't even know who will be in vs out of the playoffs yet so no one should conclude there will be only three available. Others will be available, maybe some won't be, some might be injured and unavailable for trade. Point was WAY to early to assume three centers only at the TDL

Well the ones we hear are interested in Monahan or Lindholm are pretty much locks for the playoffs. Also we are just talking about we have heard.

there could be more or we could be right on the money.

we'll see

 

[Hunter368]

Well the ones we hear are interested in Monahan or Lindholm are pretty much locks for the playoffs. Also we are just talking about we have heard.

there could be more or we could be right on the money.

we'll see

100% agree

Media is doing what the media does, running stories where it can for viewers ($). Certainly there are some early horses to the race as far as being out of the playoffs so certainly those players are in the news now, but there will be more to come without doubt. How many/who, TBD as we both agree

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Only 3 centers on the market this trade deadline with at least 8 serious bidders. Colorado, Boston, Winnipeg, Rangers, Vancouver, Toronto, Oilers, Jersey. etc..

Habs should get big for Monahan. He's having the best season of all three at a fraction the caphit.

Not even close to true

 

[Rangeri]

Analytics says otherwise. Monahan has better numbers at 40% the caphit.

Its very obvious Lindholm is unmotivated. Which looks bad for him, he turned down very big contract and it looks like wrong choice. But still he has been way better C in his career than Monahan ever has. Its pretty big weight when other one has shown excellent two-way game + PPG status at his best. It didn't disappear over night. Its clearly motivation.

I admire Monahans tenacity to come back after injuries he has been trough. But he has never been difference maker for the top 6. And he plays too soft for any lower roles. And the biggest thing is his health.

so argument for Monahan over Lindholm right now is pretty lazy when you compare their careers as a whole.

 

[yianik]

Monahan is 43rd in C scoring ( there are 64 top 6 Cs ) with 35 points and has a FOW % of 55.0.

He isn't fast and isn't this or that, but he is still a pretty good hockey player and easily fits as a 3C and can fill in as a 2C. Habs won't get a prime rib meal for him but they will do much better than a can o beans.

 

[Miller Time]

You quote part of my sentence and ignore the other part to fit your argument, where I said clearly "points aside". Do you understand what I'm saying by saying that? I'll repeat exactly what I posted so you read it again:

"I've stated this before, likely the most attractive quality about Monahan (points aside) is his small cap hit."

Sounds like you don't understand what's being said there, bc that isn't a insult or slight in the least. In fact I stated "points aside" acknowledging his production. Outside of his production, damn right his eventually cap hit is his most attractive quality to any TDL team wanting him, how can anyone argue to debate or feel slighted by that point? His cap hit is going to be tiny at the TDL, so outside of his production, yes 100% his cap hit is a HUGE positive bc he can be fit into almost any teams cap at the TDL.

If you disagree with my point, tell me what single quality of Monahan's is more attractive to a TDL cap strapped team and you cannot say anything about his production bc I stated "points aside". I'm curious what single quality is more important/valuable then his tiny cap hit (not including his production).

Passing (transition & pick possession impact, not assists)
Versatility
Face offs
Leadership

Oh, sorry, you said singular.

Again. The league is full of players <2M$, many of whom don't put up points, that aren't in high demand at the deadline. The cap hit certainly increases the potential return KH will get for him, but it remains a silly and ungrounded comment to suggest the cap hit is the most attractive quality of the player... Even with points aside.

You misspoke. No biggie. Not sure why you feel so attached to keep digging the hole?

Well if you take away PTS ,Face off % and now Small cap hit. What else is left.

A big hole for that empty take to get burried in

 

[Hunter368]

Passing (transition & pick possession impact, not assists)
Versatility
Face offs
Leadership

Oh, sorry, you said singular.

Again. The league is full of players <2M$, many of whom don't put up points, that aren't in high demand at the deadline. The cap hit certainly increases the potential return KH will get for him, but it remains a silly and ungrounded comment to suggest the cap hit is the most attractive quality of the player... Even with points aside.

You misspoke. No biggie. Not sure why you feel so attached to keep digging the hole?


A big hole for that empty take to get burried in

I didn’t misspeak In the least, I said what I believe, you might disagree which is fine, but there was no misspeaking on my part. Ironically your responding to me, of all posts in this thread, when I’m posting about valuable qualities (cap hit & production) on Monahan and you seem to want to debate me on which qualities are more valuable then others which is a very strange approach.

Qualities you listed above, while nice pales in comparison to his tiny cap hit & production to a cap strapped team at the TDL. Bringing up players who earn less than 2 million is pointless unless you have a list who will be available at the TDL and are on pace for 60 points ish like Monahan. I can’t think of a single one.

Again, we’re both debating positive qualities about Monahan, only thing we seem to disagree on is the on is which is the second most valuable quality. I think we agree on production as the most valuable quality. Again we’re talking about value to a cap strapped team.

Ill ask again, considering you ignored my question in your last post of yours, how is my comments belittling/devaluing Monahan in anyway?

 

[TS Quint]

PLD to Montreal was a complete mess and it was almost every insider calling it even Friedman had Dubois to the Habs 95% at the end we dodged a bullet so im happy about that

Personally i would easily trade Anderson for a 1st he sucks 80% of the time and is overpaid so i hope Hughes didnt turn down an offer like that but how can you call out Lebrun on it when we dont know if he did or not ? I know Gorton talked about us getting bigger when he arrived so maybe he didnt want to trade Josh

So just go back and correct your earlier post where you said the Habs shill and others to just the Habs shill. If Monahan is so good you shouldn't need to lie.

 

[Miller Time]

I didn’t misspeak In the least, I said what I believe, you might disagree which is fine, but there was no misspeaking on my part. Ironically your responding to me, of all posts in this thread, when I’m posting about valuable qualities (cap hit & production) on Monahan and you seem to want to debate me on which qualities are more valuable then others which is a very strange approach.

Qualities you listed above, while nice pales in comparison to his tiny cap hit & production to a cap strapped team at the TDL. Bringing up players who earn less than 2 million is pointless unless you have a list who will be available at the TDL and are on pace for 60 points ish like Monahan. I can’t think of a single one.

Again, we’re both debating positive qualities about Monahan, only thing we seem to disagree on is the on is which is the second most valuable quality. I think we agree on production as the most valuable quality. Again we’re talking about value to a cap strapped team.

Ill ask again, considering you ignored my question in your last post of yours, how is my comments belittling/devaluing Monahan in anyway?

That's some pretzel.

Is it points aside, or not? If it's points aside, than yes, all players earning 2M/year or less on expiring deals matter.

And. Obviously. The comment you made doesn't hold up.

His cap hit isn't the most attractive quality, his overall play, including points and everything else he does that is, or would be viewed as a net upgrade, are the attractive qualities.

So either your post was a long, empty, "captain obvious" take (all other qualities aside, lower cap hits are more attractive than higher cap hits ), or it is flat out wrong.

Either way. Bad take. I appreciate that you are now trying to reframe it to express what you meant... but I don't get why you keep waisting so much thread space twisting around your words to avoid simply saying... "Oopsie daisy, my bad, poor choice of words.".

Monahan's most attractive qualities are on the ice. At double the cap hit, like Henrique, he would STILL be a deadline top trade target. All that would change is the parameters of the deal to make it work. If he did not have "attractive qualities" beyond his cap hit, we'd be talking about him as much as people are talking about Ylonen or Pezetta... Which is not at all. Pretty simple, once the pretzel is done

 

[Hunter368]

That's some pretzel.

Is it points aside, or not? If it's points aside, than yes, all players earning 2M/year or less on expiring deals matter.

And. Obviously. The comment you made doesn't hold up.

His cap hit isn't the most attractive quality, his overall play, including points and everything else he does that is, or would be viewed as a net upgrade, are the attractive qualities.

So either your post was a long, empty, "captain obvious" take (all other qualities aside, lower cap hits are more attractive than higher cap hits ), or it is flat out wrong.

Either way. Bad take. I appreciate that you are now trying to reframe it to express what you meant... but I don't get why you keep waisting so much thread space twisting around your words to avoid simply saying... "Oopsie daisy, my bad, poor choice of words.".

Monahan's most attractive qualities are on the ice. At double the cap hit, like Henrique, he would STILL be a deadline top trade target. All that would change is the parameters of the deal to make it work. If he did not have "attractive qualities" beyond his cap hit, we'd be talking about him as much as people are talking about Ylonen or Pezetta... Which is not at all. Pretty simple, once the pretzel is done

Ahhhh, ok I think I understand what your focusing on or upset by, you don’t like the two words I used in my original post, “points aside”. You thought I was saying production doesnt matter or count or somethin……. could of I used different wording? If one were sub “points aside” for “other then his points” or “in addition to his points” would you even replied? Even if you interpreted my choice of words in a way I didn’t intend in my first post, I clearly clarified my point multi times after in following posts.

Rest of our debate about valuing his various qualities is subjective and we certainly don’t/wont have to agree on them. To answer why I kept answering you is bc I didn’t understand what you were upset about by my post when I wasn’t in anyway trying to say anything negative about Monahan. I was stating how certain group of teams would pay more for him then other teams and explaining why. Is that obvious point, maybe for some, but the place in the thread where I posted that first post there was multi posts about the Jets not willing to pay as much as other teams bc they have so much cap space vs other teams who would pay more as per LeBrun.

 

[ole ole]

I acknowledged his PTS/production, after that 100% his most valuable quality is his tiny cap hit. No question it is.

FO%? No
Defensive play? No
Leadership? No
Skating? No
Production? I stated that

His cap hit is hugely valuable, along with his production which is exactly what I stated.

FO% For sure.
Leadership. Well if he's great in the dressing room that that fits.
Production as you stated yes
Cap hit also another +

"Not this past two weeks" would be a more apt statement.

Not this season period.

 

[Hunter368]

FO% For sure.
Leadership. Well if he's great in the dressing room that that fits.
Production as you stated yes
Cap hit also another +

All good qualities, how they rank (meaning 1 vs 2 vs 3, etc) is debatable.