Speculation: Monahan forward most likely dealt first
- Thread starter HuGort
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FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
As a Canadiens fan who has watched the entirety of Monahan's career as a Hab, it's equally frustrating seeing a small handful of Habs fans make the entire fanbase look idiotic making outrageously stupid claims on the mainboards.
You yourself are guilty of this because you can't do what you claim you are "cool" with. You can't let people say they aren't interested without getting all worked up.
It is not offensive to Monahan, in any way, for someone to say, I have concerns that half his points are on the powerplay because I don't think he will get much powerplay time on my team.
That isn't an insult or a slight. If teams are looking to acquire a 2nd line centre, I took would have concerns if my club was a contender and I planned on putting Monahan at 2nd line centre. I personally don't think he's nearly good enough for that on a quality team. His lack of defensive play coupled with his lack of physical play means if he's going to be a 2nd line centre and he's going to offer nothing but face-offs and offence, and a lot of the offence comes on Special Teams, that is, in fact, concerning.
In terms of being a third line centre on a contender, the issue here is nobody wants a 3rd line centre that doesn't play defence and has no grit to their game.
I don't see why there are some Canadiens fans here that clutch their pearls and get so upset that a team doesn't want him. I'm a Canadiens fan, and if the Canadiens were legit contenders *I* wouldn't want Monahan centering my second line and I certainly wouldn't want him on my third line in any capacity.
If I could bring him in to use him on the wing and as someone who can slot in for key face offs and he's depth scorer for my team, I would be comfortable with that, but the price for a depth scorer versus a "2nd line centre" are clearly not the same thing.
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2018
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32 thoughts. Friedman doesn't think he'll get a 1st and says teams don't see him as a 2nd line centre on a contender, but a good 2rd line centre.
I think that's permitted and if i am in interested party i would for sure implement that. If you can guarantee Monahan will be healthy in the playoffs then he is worth the 1st round pick. Otherwise, he's not worth the gamble.
Friedman? ok then , Joe B. Shitter from Brossard Brasserie has it on 100% information that
Monahan get a low 1st or a high 2nd + high 3rd.
Agreed. as a Jets fan, I would not risk the 1st without some protections.
A conditional 1st and a prospect/young player (Gustavsson?) is something I would be comfortable the team offering. I would expect the Habs to want a better prospect or better current roster player.
Habs fans is there something there built around a conditional 1st?
On pace for 60 pts and he’s been healthy.
I think it's obvious he’s netting a 1st rounder. The question is whether a B or A- prospect is added.
I think it's obvious he’s netting a 1st rounder. The question is whether a B or A- prospect is added.
pth2
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2018
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Depends on the conditions, frankly. If they are contingent on team success, the reward has to be much higher.
If they are "a 2nd rounder that becomes a 1st if Monahan plays 3 playoff games" then I'm cool with it.
Sure....Hugo loves the complicated protections.
If Jets, don't make it out of the first round, the pick becomes the Habs 2nd rounder that they previously had.
If they make it out to the 2nd round and above, the Habs get the Jet's first round pick.
If they win the Stanley Cup, the pick becomes the Jets 2025 1st round pick (with a top 3 protection) and the Habs receive their 2024 2nd rounder back.
If the 2025 1st rounder is top 3, the Habs receive the Jets 2026 1st rounder unprotected.
I'm giving myself a pat on the back for the creativity!
pth2
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I'm not sure the payoff is big enough, fast enough. And it's unrelated to how Monahan actually performs (or even his health)
gojetsgo
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- Nov 1, 2015
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Chevy has proven to be very savvy when making trades. I trust that he is smart enough to look elsewhere if a Monahan deal requires a 1st to be on the line under any conditions.
If a 1st is on the line, a better player than Monahan needs to be coming back.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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He started off really hot, fell apart drastically, and then has gotten way better again.
You can be concerned about his PP points and claim he wouldn't get that since he won't get as much PP time on another team, but he will undoubtedly get better linemates than Evans/Anderson/Gallagher/Pearson which will increase his even strength production. The lack of consistency with the arguments regarding his production this year must be accounted for.
The issue is that besides Wennberg, no other upcoming UFAs fit the description.
Because of a lack of consistency in the arguments that many here bring up. "His PP production is an anomaly because he wasn't as good in previous years and he sucks at even strength even though he was good in previous years". Not to mention that many here claim he's not even worth a 2nd.
The Habs should still be getting a 2nd at minimum given the lack of center availability this deadline. A guy who wins faceoffs, has high IQ, and produces very well will fetch a solid return. I would classify that closer to secondary scoring than "depth scoring".
Captain97
Registered User
I mean isn't the most likely answer conditional 1st/2nd based on how many games Monahan plays in the playoffs. + something small.
For example Monahan has to play in 10 playoff games and the Habs get a 1st+ 3rd/b prospect. Otherwise the 1st becomes a 2nd.
That means the team has to make it to the 2nd round and Monahan has to play in most of those games.
For example Monahan has to play in 10 playoff games and the Habs get a 1st+ 3rd/b prospect. Otherwise the 1st becomes a 2nd.
That means the team has to make it to the 2nd round and Monahan has to play in most of those games.
He is averaging .71 ppg ie more than Cole Perfetti. He would be 5th on the current Jets roster for points, 1st in PP points. Jets need offense AND he is a good face off guy (would easily be the Jets best faceoff guy).
Injury history scares me so the 1st would have to be conditional.
Nope. He's not a play driver 5 on 5 or on the PP. He's the net front guy on the PP, he isn't the quarterback or setup guy in any way. He relies on others to do the work on the PP and at ES. He doesn't fix any issues for the Jets on the PP.
Namestnikov and Lowry produce the same as Monahan ES in less ice time. Monahan needs PP1 time to put up points and he wouldn't and shouldn't be getting that on a playoff team.
Monahan is a poor fit for Winnipeg. He's not good enough offensively for a top 6 role and not good enough defensively for a bottom 6 role. Not to mention he's slow and a poor skater.
If you're a playoff team and Monahan is your 2C, you're in serious trouble.
With the rumor about the Habs possibly looking to move Barron for a similarly aged forward is there a Monahan + Barron for conditional 1st / Roster player (Kupari / Gustafsson) + B level forward prospect?
ManofSteel55
Registered User
I don't think its devaluing a player to say that he isn't worth what you think he is. The fact is, that if Sean Monahan is the solution to fix your top six, you probably shouldn't be spending first round picks at the deadline. He's a good third line scorer on most contenders, and I don't think most contenders will be interested in spending a 1st round pick on a third line scoring UFA with injury history and questionable defensive game.
At this point of his career, he should probably be shifted to the wing anyway. I'd put him out to take the faceoff and have him switch with a winger after, to take advantage of his faceoff skills, but I wouldn't want him as a C on my team with his defensive lapses.
Romang67
BitterSwede
At this point, seemingly to correct erroneous statements that people are making. Because people keep making shit up in this thread (Monahan is a good defensive player, his 5v5 production is normally good, he's good on the PK). There is value in fact checking. Because people are just making shit up.
And yes, pointing out his flaws seems topical when you're talking about a return value for a player. I thought this evident, but it wasn't to everyone.
E.g:
The last time Monahan scored at a significantly higher rate 5v5 than this year was in the 18-19 season. He has scored at a lower rate in 3 of the previous 4 seasons. Here is his scoring rate 5v5 in the past 5 seasons (including this):
P/60:
1.53
1.47
0.81
1.87
1.7
In what way is his 5v5 production an outlier?
See above. Where are you getting this idea that Monahan normally is a good producer 5v5?
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Asinine
yer opinion is wrong
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pth2
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2018
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It’s so easy for fans to say we will just look elsewhere when the truth is there’s practically nothing out there other than Monahan and Lindholm who can play C.
On top of that, I don’t really care who acquire Monahan and what role he’s going to play but if you’re a « contender » entering the deadline with multiple holes in your lineup, then maybe the timing isn’t right to go all-in.
Monahan is the perfect fit for a contender bottom 6 - whether on the wing or at C - who can move up and down the lineup because injuries happens in the playoff and the deeper you are (depth) the further you’ll go.
Just look at the recent cup winners. None of them acquired top end talent at the deadline. All of them acquired middle 6F/#5-6D players for depth. The Kane, Giroux and other « talented » players acquired didn’t make much of a difference in the end.
Every fanbase on HFboards are looking for the top end talents while neglecting the bottom 6 as if it was not important. Those cheap depth players have went for a premium at the past deadlines and imo have a better ROI than the big ticket names.
this is not an accurate assessment in the least
who do Namestinikov and Lowry play with? Context matters, both fwds and def.
I get fans not wanting a specific player, but throwing around baseless claims while ignoring the huge role that roster context plays in point production is... fascinating.
Monahan's level of play this year, and last, is easily at a quality level on par with a top-6 player on a playoff team. Not even remotely questionable. He's been better than just about any of the forwards the habs had in their lineup in the year they went to the cup finals.
the injury concerns are legit... that's one thing. But these silly narrative that rely on poor cherry picked individual statistical comparisons is... silly
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