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Speculation: Monahan forward most likely dealt first

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Monahan has never been a play driver and relies on everyone else to do everything but win faceoffs, a few board battles, and shoot. It’s reasonable to expect a guy like that to have his numbers suck on a bad team. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t play a role on the 2nd line of a good team with good wingers that can fit his plodding play style. But it’s a specific fit. And that hurts the price MTL should get.
 
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wintersej said:
Monahan has never been a play driver and relies on everyone else to do everything but win faceoffs, a few board battles, and shoot. It’s reasonable to expect a guy like that to have his numbers suck on a bad team. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t play a role on the 2nd line of a good team with good wingers that can fit his plodding play style. But it’s a specific fit. And that hurts the price MTL should get.
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Yeah. He was inconsequential tonight against the Avs. Big wow.
 
Max Domi last season went for a 2nd round pick.

Can Habs fans explain what Monahan does better than Domi to justify the ask?

Both players had similarly bad 2 way metrics, esp defensive metrics but Domi last season produced a lot more points both at 5v5 and in aggregate. Best I can tell the only thing Monahan does better than Domi is win faceoffs and even there there isn't a huge difference (54% vs 58%).
 
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JetsFan815 said:
Max Domi last season went for a 2nd round pick.

Can Habs fans explain what Monahan does better than Domi to justify the ask?

Both players had similarly bad 2 way metrics, esp defensive metrics but Domi last season produced a lot more points both at 5v5 and in aggregate. Best I can tell the only thing Monahan does better than Domi is win faceoffs and even there there isn't a huge difference (54% vs 58%).
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Every year is different. Not many centers available this year. Kind of moot point. As I think Montreal sign Monahan.

But Monahan better on faceoffs, half the contract hit, great character in dressing room.
 
JetsFan815 said:
Max Domi last season went for a 2nd round pick.

Can Habs fans explain what Monahan does better than Domi to justify the ask?

Both players had similarly bad 2 way metrics, esp defensive metrics but Domi last season produced a lot more points both at 5v5 and in aggregate. Best I can tell the only thing Monahan does better than Domi is win faceoffs and even there there isn't a huge difference (54% vs 58%).
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Domi has been mentioned as a comp. But its crickets. Habs fans are entitled.

They always mention Lindholm and then Monahan. But they conveniently skip over Henrique. Why is that?
 
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John Mandalorian said:
Domi has been mentioned as a comp. But its crickets. Habs fans are entitled.

They always mention Lindholm and then Monahan. But they conveniently skip over Henrique. Why is that?
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Yeah, fwiw if I had to choose only 1 to add even at full cap hit it'd be Henrique.



Monahan has a much lower cap hit which has value, but he's not a two-way C. He's a PP specialist who's great at faceoffs.
 
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RC51 said:
I do not understand why poster make this trade thing hard. its all simple. if you want Monahan then make your offer. if you think you are the ONLY offer habs get then yes go for low low ball offer. but if the habs get a few offers and yours is not good enough then you lose. Also I know exactly what posters will say . " x team way over paid and I would NEVER OFFERED ALL THAT"
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Because every fan thinks his team is getting the top asset rumored to be available (probably Lindholm)....
 
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jfhabs said:
Because every fan thinks his team is getting the top asset rumored to be available (probably Lindholm)....
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Or they think their kids can fill in if injuries hit.

I'm reminded of how Montreal got Gustafsson and Merrill before going on their run to the finals, most fans would've wanted to give more games to Romanov instead. Coaches want veterans who won't get flustered when things go sideways (or when they have to sit a few games).
 
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ole ole said:
Now you using Joe Fresh as your proof. :laugh: Joe Fresh . You have to be kidding.
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Let's ignore fancy stats.

Gaudreau and Monahan played the better part of 8 years together, yet somehow Gaudreau was +84 during that span, and Monahan was -26. That's a +/- differential of 110. Care to explain that?

1705406840623.png


Monahan's career high +/- is +8, and he's been a minus player in 8 of his 11 years in the league. If he's not a liability at ES, why is he constantly getting outscored by the opponent at ES?

He's a career -58, and that number would be a lot worse if he wasn't carried around by Gaudreau for the majority of his career.

During his time in Calgary, he was +7 at 5v5. Doesn't seem too bad, right?

But when you isolate his time with and without Gaudreau, it's downright brutal:

With Gaudreau:
+45 goal differential
274 GF 229 GA
54.47% GF%
5596:08 TOI

Without Gaudreau:
-38 goal differential
71GF 109GA
39.44% GF%
7925:42 TOI

The per 60 splits are even more damning:
1705408244002.png


That Monahan is a 5v5 liability is an indisputable fact, and his career -58 is somehow still inflated by playing most of his career with Gaudreau.
 
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Price is Wright said:
I like Monahan in Montreal but if you can get a decent second rounder you should go ahead and move him. Like if the Jets wanna give the Habs their second back? Sounds good to me.
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They got to have depth scoring for playoffs. Playoffs are a 2 month marathon against best teams in league. Have to be able to roll the 4 lines or you will burn out your top 6. Especially if you get in physical series. A good third line is usually vital to Cup team. Or you will be Leafs/Oilers every playoff. Stacked on skill but gone early in playoffs every year.

Guys like Monahan have good value. He's big center give you 50 points. He's good on faceoffs so you play him on wing gives you that leftie/righties option on key faceoffs. Low caphit can play him on penalty kill or powerplay. Lot of intangibles there. Little things but many of them will add up to big addition.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
Let's ignore fancy stats.

Gaudreau and Monahan played the better part of 8 years together, yet somehow Gaudreau was +84 during that span, and Monahan was -26. That's a +/- differential of 110. Care to explain that?

View attachment 804180

Monahan's career high +/- is +8, and he's been a minus player in 8 of his 11 years in the league. If he's not a liability at ES, why is he constantly getting outscored by the opponent at ES?

He's a career -58, and that number would be a lot worse if he wasn't carried around by Gaudreau for the majority of his career.

During his time in Calgary, he was +7 at 5v5. Doesn't seem too bad, right?

But when you isolate his time with and without Gaudreau, it's downright brutal:

With Gaudreau:
+45 goal differential
274 GF 229 GA
54.47% GF%
5596:08 TOI

Without Gaudreau:
-38 goal differential
71GF 109GA
39.44% GF%
7925:42 TOI

The per 60 splits are even more damning:
View attachment 804187

That Monahan is a 5v5 liability is an indisputable fact, and his career -58 is somehow still inflated by playing most of his career with Gaudreau.
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Short answer is injuries.

Throw out his first year minus 20 as a rookie, and his next two big plus/minus years 2019-20 (minus 16) and 2021-22 (minus 15) he battled through multiple injuries where arguably he shouldn't have been playing.

Under Sutter his defensive game improved and he became a more complete player even as his skating suffered due to his hips.

Monahan's giveaway/takeaway ratio during his career (482 takeaways, 401 giveaways) has been positive. His career CF at even strength is 50.1.

So spin however you want, he is not a bad centre that is a liability.

In fact, I'd love to have him back in Calgary. Sutter himself called Mony Captain material and he was beloved by fans and his team mates alike.
 
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Nanuuk said:
Short answer is injuries.

Throw out his first year minus 20 as a rookie, and his next two big plus/minus years 2019-20 (minus 16) and 2021-22 (minus 15) he battled through multiple injuries where arguably he shouldn't have been playing.
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My numbers already excluded his rookie season.
Nanuuk said:
Monahan's giveaway/takeaway ratio during his career (482 takeaways, 401 giveaways) has been positive. His career CF at even strength is 50.1.
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What is his CF away from Gaudreau?

Because his rel xGA/60 has been positive literally every season he's been in the league (which is a bad thing), and he rel xG% has only been significantly negative in every season except one.

This is what an ES liability looks like:

1705417109886.png


Having more takeways than giveaways is a pretty meaningless measure for a player who rarely carries the puck. And it's even more meaningless considering his on ice impacts
Nanuuk said:
So spin however you want, he is not a bad centre that is a liability.
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No spin at all, I posted data points.
 
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John Mandalorian said:
Domi has been mentioned as a comp. But its crickets. Habs fans are entitled.

They always mention Lindholm and then Monahan. But they conveniently skip over Henrique. Why is that?
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Can I ask you why are you still debating on this issue? It's clear you want nothing to do with Monahan and at this point you're barely discussing his potential value, you're more about throwing insults at habs fans. behavior like these that make this place toxic.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
My numbers already excluded his rookie season.

What is his CF away from Gaudreau?

Because his rel xGA/60 has been positive literally every season he's been in the league (which is a bad thing), and he rel xG% has only been significantly negative in every season except one.

This is what an ES liability looks like:

View attachment 804269

Having more takeways than giveaways is a pretty meaningless measure for a player who rarely carries the puck. And it's even more meaningless considering his on ice impacts

No spin at all, I posted data points.
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Selective to prove your thesis.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
My numbers already excluded his rookie season.

What is his CF away from Gaudreau?

Because his rel xGA/60 has been positive literally every season he's been in the league (which is a bad thing), and he rel xG% has only been significantly negative in every season except one.

This is what an ES liability looks like:

View attachment 804269

Having more takeways than giveaways is a pretty meaningless measure for a player who rarely carries the puck. And it's even more meaningless considering his on ice impacts

No spin at all, I posted data points.
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Maybe literally every other player on all his teams have always been dominant possession players and that's why his xG% is consistently so bad? As soon as he gets away from the dominant Flames/Habs, he'll shine.
 
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Kosseca said:
Can I ask you why are you still debating on this issue? It's clear you want nothing to do with Monahan and at this point you're barely discussing his potential value, you're more about throwing insults at habs fans. behavior like these that make this place toxic.
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It’s not like examples weren’t provided.
 
The way things are going for the Islanders, this Islanders fan (management may disagree) would like to see them deal Nelson. He's *much* better than Monahan & Henrique. I would expect NYI would have little interest sending him inside the conference, but I think he'd do very well on the Avs. And I think the one year left on that contract might look like a good thing for them right now.
 
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