Value of: Monahan and Savard to Jersey

[Junohockeyfan]

I guess I should have included more of the quote, He says this

I'm kind of confused. What exactly do you mean? Is your team not Edmonton? Why would you sell Foegele? Any time I have watched him, he looks like a fast dynamic complementary piece. He has what 26ish points off the top of my head. Decent Cap hit. UFA next year. I don't think he would bring in a top 15 pick (I can sense your attempt at sarcasm) but if you decided to sell him, I am sure you would get an okay return. Nothing close to Monahan mind you.....but probably a late 2nd or 3rd rd pick. Not bad for a bottom 6 winger.

Let me get you back on track with Monahan. Position + production + cap hit (this is a big one IMHO) is why I actually think he would be a more valuable player than Lindholm at the TDL. A reasonable sign and trade for Lindholm may bring a better return (I can concede that). But right now, as a pure rental for the remainder of the season, with all things being equal, the significant (to use your term), difference in cost per production between the two puts Monahan above.

Do you think you can try and form a cogent argument without sarcasm now?

There was no sarcasm in my response.

I don't think there are many Habs fans who think Monahan has more value over Lindholm. 99% would obviously recognize this. There might 1 who thinks otherwise and that guy is probably Sean Monahan himself!

Don't paint the majority of Habs fans with the same brush as the minority.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

There was no sarcasm in my response.

I don't think there are many Habs fans who think Monahan has more value over Lindholm. 99% would obviously recognize this. There might 1 who thinks otherwise and that guy is probably Sean Monahan himself!

I should have used the quotation marks that sarcasm bit was from the original post, not added by me or meant as a slight on you.

 

[waitin425]

I guess I should have included more of the quote, He says this

I'm kind of confused. What exactly do you mean? Is your team not Edmonton? Why would you sell Foegele? Any time I have watched him, he looks like a fast dynamic complementary piece. He has what 26ish points off the top of my head. Decent Cap hit. UFA next year. I don't think he would bring in a top 15 pick (I can sense your attempt at sarcasm) but if you decided to sell him, I am sure you would get an okay return. Nothing close to Monahan mind you.....but probably a late 2nd or 3rd rd pick. Not bad for a bottom 6 winger.

Let me get you back on track with Monahan. Position + production + cap hit (this is a big one IMHO) is why I actually think he would be a more valuable player than Lindholm at the TDL. A reasonable sign and trade for Lindholm may bring a better return (I can concede that). But right now, as a pure rental for the remainder of the season, with all things being equal, the significant (to use your term), difference in cost per production between the two puts Monahan above.

Do you think you can try and form a cogent argument without sarcasm now?


So you read one of my comments and jumped in.

The entire time I've been saying that a team would rent Monahan and sign Lindholm, this drastically changes one of your dynamics.

So we agree? I'm so f***ing confused right now!

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I should have used the quotation marks that sarcasm bit was from the original post, not added by me or meant as a slight on you.

LOL

 

[HugeInTheShire]

So we agree? I'm so f***ing confused right now!

I think we do, the only issue I had with what you originally stated was that Monahan had the same or more value as Lindholm. It seems as though we both understand why I disagree.
Sorry if I didn't communicate well enough.

 

[Wayfarer13]

And how did the team that paid a first for Chiarot feel about that purchase?

About the same way they do when they lose a game.Would you like a participation ribbon?

 

[Scintillating10]

Lots of numbers being thrown around here to devalue Monahan so Will take a swing at using numbers to elevate him. He is tied for 47th in scoring amongst centerman in the league making him a middling 2nd liner in scoring playing for the 2nd youngest team with the youngest blueline. Now his cap hit places him at 93 at center position as per CapFriendly. And yes there are 36 players ahead of him that are listed as wingers as well for clarity. Amongst forwards he tied at 109 in scoring while being at 251 in cap hit. Dang good cap value and may allow a team aquiring him to make another deal to fill a need.

47th amongst center in scoring. But played most year with Gallagher and Anderson.

 

[TBF1972]

Well, it's hard to coherently argue with incoherent haters.

Thank god for the Ignore button.

can you ignore me too?

 

[ole ole]

You what? RNH would be cheaper to acquire than Draisaitl if Edmonton was rebuilding. The reason if you don't know the difference, one is a good 2nd liner and the other is an elite player.

Lindholm is a defensive minded low end 1st liner high end 2nd liner.

Manahan is a low end 2nd liner or a good 3rd line that misses a lot of games each year.

If Lindholm and his 31 pts.is your 1st line center than your sitting at the bottom of the league drowning.

 

[ole ole]

Sure it depends on a teams need, that fact doesn't change the fact that teams will pay more for players they want around beyond this season than they will for rentals.
This is a discussion about why Lindholm has more value than Monahan, Montreal fans think think they have basically the same value, everyone else knows they don't.

I didn't think it would be so hard for people to understand, but I guess I expect too much from a fanbase that thought they could get 2OA + for Josh Anderson.

What fanbase what that? Sounds like some dream you had and now believes it's true. Back to reality and leave the wet dreams at home.

 

[ole ole]

Yep that's what I said, every single Hab fans said that!

If you want me to once again dumb it down for Montreal fans, when I said that the Montreal fanbase thought that Anderson was worth 2OA, I didn't mean that EVERY Montreal fan thought that. You'd think that at least one of you guys in this thread would be able to comprehend even the easiest of nuances in the English language.

Well lets dumb it down even further. When fanbase is used as a term it usually brings across the thought ..MOST , not 1 0r 2.
Maybe you don't understand the meaning of Comprehend.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

OK, how about this

Player 1 has 17 5v5 points and spends an average of 18:23 per game on the ice
Player 2 has 25 5v5 points and spends an average of 13:52 per game on the ice

We can do this all day, you can lie and say that Monahan "plays with scrubs" and that somehow Foegele plays on a line with McDavid or Drai instead of McLeod and Janmark

Lets take a look at who else was on the scoresheet when Monahan collected his 3 points last night.
Suzuki from Slaf and Monahan
Monahan from Matheson and Montombeault
Monahan from Anderson and Caufield

I guess Suzuki is overrated and not one of the "best 2 way centers in the game"
Slaf is in fact a bust,
Matheson isn't worth a 1st
Anderson isn't worth 2OA or a 1st plus
Caufield isn't a "perennial 50 goal scorer"

You're right, he plays with scrubs.

We can do this all day, you can come up with something to pump your guy up and I can make him look average. He's a decent player, and while he is worth more than Warren Foegele, he's not close to Elias Lindholm in value, even as a rental. Even though most teams acquiring Lindholm will try and sign him long term and Monahan will likely be a pure rental.

No dog in this fight but isn't it a little disingenuous to list players TOI per game including powerplay time only to strip out powerplay points and focus on 5vs5 stats?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Indeed, Devils should not be trying to band aid their flawed roster at the deadline. Last year's fluke boosted expectations prematurely & they made some bad decisions last summer to make it worse. Far better off being sellers, though that's unlikely.

I could see Savard being a fit for the same reasons he's highly valued by the Habs brass, though I'd suspect the asking price to be sky high.

Wow, they fluked into a franchise record in points, elite analytics all season, and a round 1 victory? Impressive. That’s the fluke, and not the season where everyone is hurt (including the coach now) and the goalies stink.

 

[Trabdy2]

Yeah, Suzuki's relative xG numbers are very good.

Out of the 14 Habs forwards with >200 5v5 mins, Monahan ranks:

10th in xG%
11th in rel xG%
13th in xGA/60
13th in rel xGA/60

So his numbers aren't just bad because he's on a bad team.

I was curious about Lindholm, because it seems that there are a lot of comparisons being drawn between him and Monahan and their respective trade values. Looking at XG% and Rel xG%, etc..., the numbers are not bright and shiny for Lindholm this year.

Lindholm ranks dead last in rel XG% on his team for forwards with those same parameters (>200 5v5). Even below Ruzicka who was just waived.

 

[Xirik]

Monahan sucks

(Gotta keep this thread going as everytime habs fans dunks on Devils prospect the player then goes ghostbusters!)

 

[pth2]

Monahan sucks

(Gotta keep this thread going as everytime habs fans dunks on Devils prospect the player then goes ghostbusters!)

Now now, just like Devils fans are allowed not to see a fit, Habs fans are allowed not to see value in what NJ might offer.

 

[Hunter368]

We have one main Monahan thread going, that’s enough.