Value of: Monahan and Savard to Jersey

[ChaoticOrange]

He is a star centre compared to5th liners like Huala and Lazar. Hughes and Hischier are pretty fragile. I wouldn't depend on them to make it through the playoffs. I would want another scoring line centre. Monahan would be cheaper than Lindholm.

that's because he's significantly worse than Lindholm

 

[Miller Time]

Meh. Toffoli was doing great until Hughes got hurt and righted himself last game with a hat trick. Meier contract has no bearing on anything else NJ did this offseason. When they got him he had one year left with RFA control. Maybe in five years they will worry about his contract, right now it's fine. Goalie situation plenty of NJ fans would complain about and that is the only one that really impacted this season. Note NJ's record with BOTH Hughes and Hischier in the lineup. it's something like a 112 point pace. You can't really protect against a roster to be decimated by injuries to this extent. Ultimately, that's the biggest issue they have.

Well, in that case bolstering the roster with cheap, UFA to be players capable of mitigating injury issues would be exactly the right thing to do, now wouldn't it

 

[My3Sons]

Well, in that case bolstering the roster with cheap, UFA to be players capable of mitigating injury issues would be exactly the right thing to do, now wouldn't it

C'mon, no cheap UFA players who are in the minors are going to replace Jack Hughes, Dougie Hamilton, Jonas Siegenthaler, and the other guys who are sitting out. This was just a cursed season for multiple reasons. It happens. They are still a very young team and will grow from this experience. Eventually their young defenders will mature and they have their core locked up for quite some time. An older team or one facing numerous UFA defections might need to act out of necessity but that's just not the case for NJ. Again, a guy like Monahan is a decent depth add, but he's not changing their fortunes with so many guys out with injuries.

 

[Miller Time]

C'mon, no cheap UFA players who are in the minors are going to replace Jack Hughes, Dougie Hamilton, Jonas Siegenthaler, and the other guys who are sitting out. This was just a cursed season for multiple reasons. It happens. They are still a very young team and will grow from this experience. Eventually their young defenders will mature and they have their core locked up for quite some time. An older team or one facing numerous UFA defections might need to act out of necessity but that's just not the case for NJ. Again, a guy like Monahan is a decent depth add, but he's not changing their fortunes with so many guys out with injuries.

Perhaps you missed last year's cup finals?

NHL playoffs are all about depth & next man up. Decent depth is almost always what helps a team get over the hump as finalists inevitably lose a key/elite player on the way.

In any case, Im simply saying that I agree that the Devil's roster isn't good enough to be worth going all in with. The gamble on Meier & the bet on Vanacek set them back, the injuries are just exposing a badly structured roster to contend now.

They've got a wealth of elite young talent, so perhaps in 2-3 years they'll have a real contention shot and be in a position for it to make sense to bolster their depth with a rental. I wouldn't want them to do that now if it were my team either, especially with the futures recently sent out in the Meier & Toffoli deals.

 

[waitin425]

that's because he's significantly worse than Lindholm

Significantly implies their is some massive difference.

Show me.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Significantly implies their is some massive difference.

Show me.

you're right if you totally ignore the last five years of their careers prior to this one they're exactly the same

 

[MasterMatt25]

If I see another Monahan proposal I stg. Can we get a megathread pls mods

 

[waitin425]

you're right if you totally ignore the last five years of their careers prior to this one they're exactly the same

Basing value on past 5 years isn't an exact science. Calgary is learning that with Huberdeau. We are talking about right now and for the back half of the season only. No commitment beyond that. Right now. There isn't a massive chasm between the two.

 

[Wayfarer13]

Lots of numbers being thrown around here to devalue Monahan so Will take a swing at using numbers to elevate him. He is tied for 47th in scoring amongst centerman in the league making him a middling 2nd liner in scoring playing for the 2nd youngest team with the youngest blueline. Now his cap hit places him at 93 at center position as per CapFriendly. And yes there are 36 players ahead of him that are listed as wingers as well for clarity. Amongst forwards he tied at 109 in scoring while being at 251 in cap hit. Dang good cap value and may allow a team aquiring him to make another deal to fill a need.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Basing value on past 5 years isn't an exact science. Calgary is learning that with Huberdeau. We are talking about right now and for the back half of the season only. No commitment beyond that. Right now. There isn't a massive chasm between the two.

well shit if right now is all that matters, we should be selling on Foegele too. What do you think, top 15 pick?

 

[Rob Sense]

Lots of numbers being thrown around here to devalue Monahan so Will take a swing at using numbers to elevate him. He is tied for 47th in scoring amongst centerman in the league making him a middling 2nd liner in scoring playing for the 2nd youngest team with the youngest blueline. Now his cap hit places him at 93 at center position as per CapFriendly. And yes there are 36 players ahead of him that are listed as wingers as well for clarity. Amongst forwards he tied at 109 in scoring while being at 251 in cap hit. Dang good cap value and may allow a team aquiring him to make another deal to fill a need.

The issue is armchair GMs here have their minds made up and no data will convince them. Real GMs who work for NHL teams trying to build a team for a deep playoff run will understand.

 

[Lockin17]

That makes me think of Drouin kindda discussion last year.

Today Monahan sucks i would not even trade a bag of pucks for him .
Drouin same thing .

Drouin is now playing on the AVS first line.

Monahan would sure be their best 3C in NJ, even take on the 2C is one of Hishier or Hughes is injured.
But keep bashing Monahan like he would not even make the team...

 

[waitin425]

well shit if right now is all that matters, we should be selling on Foegele too. What do you think, top 15 pick?

I'm kind of confused. What exactly do you mean? Is your team not Edmonton? Why would you sell Foegele? Any time I have watched him, he looks like a fast dynamic complementary piece. He has what 26ish points off the top of my head. Decent Cap hit. UFA next year. I don't think he would bring in a top 15 pick (I can sense your attempt at sarcasm) but if you decided to sell him, I am sure you would get an okay return. Nothing close to Monahan mind you.....but probably a late 2nd or 3rd rd pick. Not bad for a bottom 6 winger.

Let me get you back on track with Monahan. Position + production + cap hit (this is a big one IMHO) is why I actually think he would be a more valuable player than Lindholm at the TDL. A reasonable sign and trade for Lindholm may bring a better return (I can concede that). But right now, as a pure rental for the remainder of the season, with all things being equal, the significant (to use your term), difference in cost per production between the two puts Monahan above.

Do you think you can try and form a cogent argument without sarcasm now?

 

[Wayfarer13]

The issue is armchair GMs here have their minds made up and no data will convince them. Real GMs who work for NHL teams trying to build a team for a deep playoff run will understand.

There is a bad tendency to have a short memory and not to include context and nuance.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I'm kind of confused. What exactly do you mean? Is your team not Edmonton? Why would you sell Foegele? Any time I have watched him, he looks like a fast dynamic complementary piece. He has what 26ish points off the top of my head. Decent Cap hit. UFA next year. I don't think he would bring in a top 15 pick (I can sense your attempt at sarcasm) but if you decided to sell him, I am sure you would get an okay return. Nothing close to Monahan mind you.....but probably a late 2nd or 3rd rd pick. Not bad for a bottom 6 winger.

Let me get you back on track with Monahan. Position + production + cap hit (this is a big one IMHO) is why I actually think he would be a more valuable player than Lindholm at the TDL. A reasonable sign and trade for Lindholm may bring a better return (I can concede that). But right now, as a pure rental for the remainder of the season, with all things being equal, the significant (to use your term), difference in cost per production between the two puts Monahan above.

Do you think you can try and form a cogent argument without sarcasm now?

Player 1
47 games, 11 goals, 20 assists for 31 points

Player 2
43 games, 10 goals, 16 assist for 26 points

One of them is a worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick the other is worth "more than Lindholm"

Which player is the super valuable guy?

 

[waitin425]

Player 1
47 games, 11 goals, 20 assists for 31 points, plays centre, has a phenomenal faceoff percentage and $1.985 cap hit (divide it by 2) and plays with scrubs.

Player 2
43 games, 10 goals, 16 assist for 26 points, is a winger, plays on a team where McDrai + Nuge draw the majority of the defensive matchups and carries a $2.75 cap hit (divide by 2).

One of them is a worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick the other is worth "more than Lindholm"

Which player is the super valuable guy? I mean isn't it clear?

Added some context to expand your mind.

 

[Skip Bayless]

That's two more points tonight y'all.

 

[Wayfarer13]

Player 1
47 games, 11 goals, 20 assists for 31 points

Player 2
43 games, 10 goals, 16 assist for 26 points

One of them is a worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick the other is worth "more than Lindholm"

Which player is the super valuable guy?

And the 31 point guy is $3 mill less on the cap allowing another move for a second player to be made

 

[waitin425]

That's two more points tonight y'all.

Make that 3!!

Lmao.....step right up to Centre Bell for some servings of crow!

 

[waitin425]

you're right if you totally ignore the last five years of their careers prior to this one they're exactly the same

Now on pace for 22 goals and 58 points. Will cost a team less than a mil on the cap if retained at 50 percent. Thoughts?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Now on pace for 22 goals and 58 points. Will cost a team less than a mil on the cap if retained at 50 percent. Thoughts?

Thoughts? Good luck getting a first. I hope my team doesn't give one up for him. His underlying numbers are horrible and one game doesn't change that.

Signed, the fans of the 31 other teams in the NHL.

But hey, Hughes gets what he wants. That's why the Habs got a first for Petry and a first for Edmundson and the Dach and Newhook deals have been raging successes <3

 

[waitin425]

Thoughts? Good luck getting a first. I hope my team doesn't give one up for him. His underlying numbers are horrible and one game doesn't change that.

Signed, the fans of the 31 other teams in the NHL.

But hey, Hughes gets what he wants. That's why the Habs got a first for Petry and a first for Edmundson and the Dach and Newhook deals have been raging successes <3

One game or seasons pace....lame

 

[Miller Time]

Thoughts? Good luck getting a first. I hope my team doesn't give one up for him. His underlying numbers are horrible and one game doesn't change that.

Signed, the fans of the 31 other teams in the NHL.

But hey, Hughes gets what he wants. That's why the Habs got a first for Petry and a first for Edmundson and the Dach and Newhook deals have been raging successes <3

For such an obsession commenting about Montreal players, you'd think you'd bother to at least have a general idea about the team instead of spewing nonsense...

Let's just hope a GM pulls a Holland and pays an above market premium, we'll get way more than a 1st if it's oiler prices being paid lol. Doubt we'd get nearly as much from the Devils... Which is what this thread is supposed to be about if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Guess]

Monahan plays with garbage players, put him in similar circumstances to other players being evaluated against him and you'll see his advanced stats numbers go way up.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Monahan plays with garbage players, put him in similar circumstances to other players being evaluated against him and you'll see his advanced stats numbers go way up.

Except he's never had good advanced numbers despite playing with some very good players in the past.