Mo Rielly - "Our Norris Trophy Candidate"

[zeke]

Except he isn't even our #1 , did you see him on the ice the last minute and a half of protecting the shut out ? No when it matters that we be good defensively his butt is glued to the bench where it belongs .

Many #1 dmen, like Norris Hedman and Josi and Carlson, also aren't their team's first choice in those situations.


On the year, though, Rielly Leafs ranks:

#1 even strength TOI
#1 total TOI
#2 quality of competition (opponents' TOI%)
#1 xGF%
#2 GF%

 

[Notsince67]

Many #1 dmen, like Norris Hedman and Josi and Carlson, also aren't their team's first choice in those situations.


On the year, though, Rielly Leafs ranks:

#1 even strength TOI
#1 total TOI
#2 quality of competition (opponents' TOI%)
#1 xGF%
#2 GF%

Finding a defenseman of Rielly's quality is really tough. That said, I wouldn't love a Trouba type contract. He will be 28 going into his next contract. Hopefully giving him an 8 year will give the team a decent discount. Anyone thinking they are going to find better without giving up substantial high end assets are crazy.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Except he isn't even our #1 , did you see him on the ice the last minute and a half of protecting the shut out ? No when it matters that we be good defensively his butt is glued to the bench where it belongs .

Well he is not our defensive #1 but he is our all around #1 ... This opens up this debate >>>>>> does a Norris winner need to be a teams #1 defensive and #1 offensive go to guy?

 

[zeke]

Well he is not our defensive #1 but he is our all around #1 ... This opens up this debate >>>>>> does a Norris winner need to be a teams #1 defensive and #1 offensive go to guy?

Rielly actually faces much tougher competition than most Norris winners do - including the likes of Hedman and Josi.

Most Norris winners aren't on their team's toughest usage pairing - but Rielly always has been.

 

[zeke]

A snapshot on how different Norris Trophy candidates are used by their teams. For quality of competition here we're looking at Opponents Ice time% - i.e. how much these dmen are used against the other team's biggest minute players. (These numbers usually range from about 28.0 on the low end and 30.0 on the high end - but note that this year because of the division bubble set-ups the team numbers overall won't match up cleanly because they're only facing a limited number of teams with a specific set up - i.e. in the North division there's a lot of top-heavy forward line usage, in other divisions not so much).

TOR

1. Brodie 29.46
2. Rielly 29.44

3. Muzzin 29.38
4. Holl 29.33

5. Bogo 28.04
6. Dermott 28.02

So the leafs have a set up where the top two pairs both face tough usage matchups, though the Rielly pair gets the tougher ones. While the bottom pair gets super soft matchups. Note: This is actually the first time in years that the Rielly pairing hasn't been BY FAR the toughest matchup pair - no surprise that Rielly's analytics look better this year now that he's got a reliable 2nd pair behind him taking some of his extreme load off of him.


TB

1. Cernak 29.37
2. McDonagh 29.08

3. Hedman 28.62
4. Rutta 28.47

5. Sergachev 28.35
6. Schenn 27.90 / Foote 27.68

In tampa, McDonagh-Cernak is the clearcut matchup pairing with by far the toughest usage, with the Hedman pairing with much easier usage.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Rielly actually faces much tougher competition than most Norris winners do - including the likes of Hedman and Josi.

Most Norris winners aren't on their team's toughest usage pairing - but Rielly always has been.

You have to look past the stats, he is used with the Matthews/marner too dominate any of the other teams lines offensively, he not used 5vs5 in a defensive role

 

[zeke]

You have to look past the stats, he is used with the Matthews/marner too dominate any of the other teams lines offensively, he not used 5vs5 in a defensive role

it doesn't matter why he's used against them, only that he is.

 

[Mr Hockey]

it doesn't matter why he's used against them, only that he is.

you seem to like to past his QoC stat often , kinda pushing a narrative he is specifically being used against the other teams top lines to shut them down... Guys like Hedman can be dominate defensively. im not to familiar with Josi game

 

[zeke]

you seem to like to past his QoC stat often , kinda pushing a narrative he is specifically being used against the other teams top lines to shut them down... Guys like Hedman can be dominate defensively. im not to familiar with Josi game

if Hedman was dominant defensively, why do McDonagh-Cernak get the far, far tougher matchups?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Rielly actually faces much tougher competition than most Norris winners do - including the likes of Hedman and Josi.

Most Norris winners aren't on their team's toughest usage pairing - but Rielly always has been.

So why is the Norris trophy even taken seriously I’m wondering reading that. Who votes,how many are Canadian. What ate the criteria. Is Q0C part of the criteria and if not why not. Best goals against as goalie tanden and Rocket are the only two legit and absent of bias likely.
Personally i would rather see defensemen awarded trophies as best offensive defenseman and separately another as best defensive defenseman. They have that distinction for forwards with the Selke.
Great Marketing opportunity for Tim Hortons. Award a Tropy to the Nhl for gest defensive Defenseman
Interesting who would be considered the best defensive defenseman of all time actually. I’m not sure at all.

 

[LeafGrief]

you seem to like to past his QoC stat often , kinda pushing a narrative he is specifically being used against the other teams top lines to shut them down... Guys like Hedman can be dominate defensively. im not to familiar with Josi game

Is it better to keep the other team's stars to the outside in your own end, or inside their own blueline? If Rielly is dominating offensively instead of defensively, he's still dominating. Who cares that he can't dominate defensively? So long as he's dominant, he's a foundational piece.

 

[Mr Hockey]

if Hedman was dominant defensively, why do McDonagh-Cernak get the far, far tougher matchups?

I said he can be ... so your saying Tampa coach is heavily into defensive match ups, with that power house of an offence? I think if anything other teams are keeping there top offensive lines away from the Hedman/point line ... McDonagh-Cernak seem to play the muzzin.Holl role

 

[Mr Hockey]

Is it better to keep the other team's stars to the outside in your own end, or inside their own blueline? If Rielly is dominating offensively instead of defensively, he's still dominating. Who cares that he can't dominate defensively? So long as he's dominant, he's a foundational piece.

its hockey talk

 

[zeke]

I said he can be ... so your saying Tampa coach is heavily into defensive match ups, with that power house of an offence? I think if anything other teams are keeping there top offensive lines away from the Hedman/point line ... McDonagh-Cernak seem to play the muzzin.Holl role

all the whys and excuses don't matter - all that matters is that Rielly faces much much tougher matchups than Hedman, and most other "norris trophy" dmen.

 

[Mr Hockey]

all the whys and excuses don't matter - all that matters is that Rielly faces much much tougher matchups than Hedman, and most other "norris trophy" dmen.

and people understand why that is and the reason he doesn't get serious Norris consideration ... look past the stats zeke, they dont show what is actually going on

 

[zeke]

and people understand why that is and the reason he doesn't get serious Norris consideration ... look past the stats zeke, they dont show what is actually going on

People don't understand why this is.

Even you right here are surprised to learn that Hedman gets far, far easier matchups than Rielly does.

What's even funnier is that hedman doesn't even put up better defensive numbers even though he gets the easier matchups.

 

[Mr Hockey]

People don't understand why this is.

Even you right here are surprised to learn that Hedman gets far, far easier matchups than Rielly does.

What's even funnier is that hedman doesn't even put up better defensive numbers even though he gets the easier matchups.

i do know Macdoungh is a #1 dman or was ... where are you getting Hedmans QoC stats, let me have a look and Hedman is second unit PK guy

 

[Mr Hockey]

People don't understand why this is.

Even you right here are surprised to learn that Hedman gets far, far easier matchups than Rielly does.

What's even funnier is that hedman doesn't even put up better defensive numbers even though he gets the easier matchups.

HeLLLLLLLLLLLLooooo, where are you getting your QoC stats from, which site, is it a secret? lol

 

[zeke]

HeLLLLLLLLLLLLooooo, where are you getting your QoC stats from, which site, is it a secret? lol

Evolving-hockey.com

 

[Mr Hockey]

Evolving-hockey.com

QoC tables are patrons only ...

 

[zeke]

QoC tables are patrons only ...

Whaddyagonnado

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When we get to playoffs and have a lead late in game Mo likely won't even hit da ice ... it will be Muzzy and Bogo and Muzzy and Brodie ... we need 1 more defensive dman to hold off teams

Holl, Dermy or Mo will get a short 20 second shift here and there at 2:30 mark and then we will go with 3 rest of way ... all 3 of those guys are not trusted in their own end to make solid safe plays and decisions

 

[mapleleaf979]

Is it better to keep the other team's stars to the outside in your own end, or inside their own blueline? If Rielly is dominating offensively instead of defensively, he's still dominating. Who cares that he can't dominate defensively? So long as he's dominant, he's a foundational piece.

Reilly is not dominating offensively at all. Reilly cant even run the powerplay properly with a bunch of superstar wingers on the half wall. He forecasts his decisions, does not shoot from the point. Reilly lacks confidence, deception, high end hockey sense gives u this, Reilly does not have high hockey sense that the top offensive dmen have. Reilly is the 3rd most important Dman on the team right now overall. Reilly is the most over rated Leafs player based on this boards view of him.

 

[LeafGrief]

Reilly is not dominating offensively at all. Reilly cant even run the powerplay properly with a bunch of superstar wingers on the half wall. He forecasts his decisions, does not shoot from the point. Reilly lacks confidence, deception, high end hockey sense gives u this, Reilly does not have high hockey sense that the top offensive dmen have. Reilly is the 3rd most important Dman on the team right now overall. Reilly is the most over rated Leafs player based on this boards view of him.

Wow, that's a lot of words to say that you don't like him as a powerplay QB and let a PP dry stretch effect your judgement of his game overall.

If you want simple stats, Rielly has 24 points in 32 games. At 5on5 he's been on the ice for 29 goals for and 18 against and is +13. If you want advanced stats (you probably don't but I don't care) since the start of February, at 5on5 he's got 59%xGF, 56% scoring chances for, and 60% high danger chances for. He was pretty bad in January, seriously bad, but since February 1st he (and Brodie) have been among the most effective defenders in the league.

And honestly, miss me with the "sample size" argument. Rielly has been an elite offensive defenseman literally his entire career. He's not going to have 60%xGF all the time, but he's a fantastically effective player, he's the guy that Keefe plays 24 minutes a night, and I really don't give a damn about the hipsters who think it's cool to dump on our #1D because he's not elite defensively.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I dislike Rielly on the PP only when the team is set up in the ozone ... I dont like his shot, he is not creative passer and often ends a good pass around with a wrist shot to net instead of continuing with the puck possession and passing off.... i do like him on the rush and he does move around in the ozone and his speed defensively if something goes wrong