Mo Rielly - "Our Norris Trophy Candidate"

[SeaOfBlue]

We give the puck away to much in the defensive zone. https://morehockeystats.com/teams/givetake

Problem with that stat is, just like it says at the top, the stat is iffy and inconsistently tracked. Different places classify different things as a giveaway or takeaway.

Some styles are also more susceptible to giveaways, but also lead to better chances as well. There are sometimes trade offs. That is why people tend to look at possession instead, since if you are generating possession (especially high danger possession), you are probably dictating the flow of play and are outplaying the other team.

Not always the case, but it is the case far more often than not.

I've seen games where we've rarely given away the puck but we sucked and games where we apparently gave it away a lot but were dominating. It's not a meaningless stat, but it seems to at least be very unreliable... Especially since you can see on that list that almost 100% of the guys on the list are puck movers who constantly have the puck on their sticks and therefore are more likely to give it away. If you want to be a defenseman with low giveaway numbers, don't touch the puck and let your partner handle it.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Problem with that stat is, just like it says at the top, the stat is iffy and inconsistently tracked. Different places classify different things as a giveaway or takeaway.

Some styles are also more susceptible to giveaways, but also lead to better chances as well. There are sometimes trade offs. That is why people tend to look at possession instead, since if you are generating possession (especially high danger possession), you are probably dictating the flow of play and are outplaying the other team.

Not always the case, but it is the case far more often than not.

I’m focusing on defensive zone giveaways. I see it every game too. Its not coincidence that 7 of the worst 8 teams in defensive zone giveaways are Canadian teams. Our entire North division is in the worst 8 at it.
Sometimes if you are a god team and a smart team maybe you don’t try skating or passing everything out of you own zone. The entire Canadian division are giveaway queens. Ice the damn thing and put it out hard sometimes.
Looking like possession has to be balanced between the ears of players in our division to me

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Problem with that stat is, just like it says at the top, the stat is iffy and inconsistently tracked. Different places classify different things as a giveaway or takeaway.

Some styles are also more susceptible to giveaways, but also lead to better chances as well. There are sometimes trade offs. That is why people tend to look at possession instead, since if you are generating possession (especially high danger possession), you are probably dictating the flow of play and are outplaying the other team.

Not always the case, but it is the case far more often than not.

I've seen games where we've rarely given away the puck but we sucked and games where we apparently gave it away a lot but were dominating. It's not a meaningless stat, but it seems to at least be very unreliable... Especially since you can see on that list that almost 100% of the guys on the list are puck movers who constantly have the puck on their sticks and therefore are more likely to give it away. If you want to be a defenseman with low giveaway numbers, don't touch the puck and let your partner handle it.

I also cross checked our top minute guys against top teams guys and we are giveaway machines comparatively. Just some odd observations i think should be noted.

 

[Mr Hockey]

We give the puck away to much in the defensive zone. https://morehockeystats.com/teams/givetake
**Notice all 7 Canadian teams are in the top 8 teams for defensive zone giveaways. Something is going on here. The entire Division is possession possessed and won’t chip and chase or ice the puck. Something else may be at work but it seems to be showing a flaw in the possession game to me. A lack of diversity and savvy on how to play the game has filtered in. Thats sloppy hockey we are watch ing

it is odd that the Canadian teams are at the top, I wonder why

 

[Wafflewhipper]

it is odd that the Canadian teams are at the top, I wonder why

They are all playing a possession at all costs game. They resist simply icing the puck. They especially never ice it out when in trouble in their own end. A complete different style of play goung on in the North

 

[Wafflewhipper]

They are all playing a possession at all costs game. They resist simply icing the puck. They especially never ice it out when in trouble in their own end. A complete different style of play goung on in the North

The giveaways are driving me up the wall. They have to ice the puck when we are a top faceoff team

 

[Mr Hockey]

They are all playing a possession at all costs game. They resist simply icing the puck. They especially never ice it out when in trouble in their own end. A complete different style of play goung on in the North

but the Sens and canucks ice it the most and Calgary is the least

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Somebody is crawling around the garbage bin pickin up stuff we throw out there Rielly not thrilled with being idle ... Keefe gives up his feeling on NHL stats ... Nice to meet you, Alex | Toronto Sun
Keefer disputing the giveaway stats. Well Keefer you better open your eyes. I see them way to much.
Terry Koshan is wise to sniff around the boards. I would too if i was writing for a newspaper. You have to be more sly Terry

 

[Stonehands 1]

Rielly is secretly a winger, facts

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Rielly is secretly a winger, facts

Secretly in that he thinks he is. Or secretly in that ignore he’s not a good enough in the defensive game
He’s ok, he’s improved defensively lots. Great time for him to watch how his partner operates too

 

[zeke]

Of 124 dmen with 400+min 5v5 (I.e. roughly all top-4 dmen):

(Listing guys who imo play the true #1D role for their teams)

2. Pelech 62.4xgf%
3. Girard 60.4xgf%
9. Fox 58.2xgf%
15. Weber 56.9xgf%
17. Rielly 56.4xgf%
18. Spurgeon 56.4xgf%
21. McAvoy 55.9xgf%
28. Heiskanen 55.1xgf%
34. Ekblad 54.5xgf%
35. Slavin 54.4xgf%
39. Hedman 54.1xgf%
47. Nurse 52.3xgf%
50. Pionk 52.1xgf%
53. Faulk 51.8xgf%
57. Josi 51.4xgf%
64. Pietrangelo 50.5xgf%
67. Burns 49.9xgf%
70. Severson 49.7xgf%
74. Provorov 49.2xgf%
76. Carlson 49.0xgf%
85. Chychrun 48.3xgf%
89. Murphy 48.0xgf%
92. Schmidt 47.2xgf%
94. Chabot 47.1xgf%
98. Fowler 46.4xgf%
102. Hronek 45.8xgf%
104. Giordano 45.6xgf%
105. Letang 45.4xgf%
106. Doughty 45.2xgf%
110. Dahlin 44.0xgf%
113. Jones 43.5xgf%

 

[zeke]

Defense Only (xga/60):

3. Pelech 1.74
4. Heiskanen 1.74
16. Fox 1.87
19. Weber 1.87
24. Spurgeon 1.94
30. Ekblad 1.99
31. McAvoy 1.99
43. Carlson 2.07
44. Faulk 2.07
47. Hedman 2.07
53. Josi 2.17
59. Provorov 2.20
67. Slavin 2.24
75. Rielly 2.27
78. Pionk 2.28
82. Doughty 2.31
86. Pietrangelo 2.36
87. Chychrun 2.37
90. Hronek 2.39
91. Murphy 2.40
92. Fowler 2.41
93. Burns 2.42
97. Severson 2.45
99. Jones 2.45
102. Letang 2.48
106. Giordano 2.60
107. Dahlin 2.62
111. Schmidt 2.71
114. Chabot 2.76
115. Nurse 2.80

 

[zeke]

Quality of Competition - opponents toi%

1. Nurse 29.93
3. Weber 29.72
6. Pionk 29.68
7. Chabot 29.59
13. Schmidt 29.44
14. Rielly 29.43
17. Pietrangelo 29.34
19. Giordano 29.33
20. Fox 29.32
21. Pelech 29.31
26. Burns 29.25
31. Ekblad 29.22
33. Fowler 29.20
34. Doughty 29.19
38. Jones 29.18
40. Chychrun 29.15
41. Faulk 29.11
46. Spurgeon 29.07
47. Hronek 29.03
49. Carlson 29.01
51. Letang 29.00
53. Murphy 28.96
54. Slavin 28.96
56. Heiskanen 28.95
59. McAvoy 28.90
60. Provorov 28.90
76. Josi 28.76
95. Hedman 28.62
109. Dahlin 28.37
111. Severson 28.35

 

[Notsince67]

I also cross checked our top minute guys against top teams guys and we are giveaway machines comparatively. Just some odd observations i think should be noted.

When they are holding the puck in the ozone for substantial periods of time, there are inevitably giveaways. Most of them are in the ozone. It is driven by less overall shots

 

[Wafflewhipper]

When they are holding the puck in the ozone for substantial periods of time, there are inevitably giveaways. Most of them are in the ozone. It is driven by less overall shots

I only listed defensive giveaways. The site list the offensive giveaways also but i only focused on defensive.

 

[Gallagbi]

Quality of Competition - opponents toi%

1. Nurse 29.93
3. Weber 29.72
6. Pionk 29.68
7. Chabot 29.59
13. Schmidt 29.44
14. Rielly 29.43
17. Pietrangelo 29.34
19. Giordano 29.33
20. Fox 29.32
21. Pelech 29.31
26. Burns 29.25
31. Ekblad 29.22
33. Fowler 29.20
34. Doughty 29.19
38. Jones 29.18
40. Chychrun 29.15
41. Faulk 29.11
46. Spurgeon 29.07
47. Hronek 29.03
49. Carlson 29.01
51. Letang 29.00
53. Murphy 28.96
54. Slavin 28.96
56. Heiskanen 28.95
59. McAvoy 28.90
60. Provorov 28.90
76. Josi 28.76
95. Hedman 28.62
109. Dahlin 28.37
111. Severson 28.35

Man, Weber has really turned things around seemed like he was on a downward trend right around the MTL acquisition

 

[Notsince67]

I only listed defensive giveaways. The site list the offensive giveaways also but i only focused on defensive.

Defensive zone giveaways?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Y

Defensive zone giveaways?

Yeah. I only listed defensive zone giveaways. All 7 Canadian teams are in the Top 8 in that category. Thats pretty neat find actually. Keefe got asked about it and disputed how stats are being reported. Adv stats are turning in to a joke when he’s calling out the Nhl itself.
This site i linked likelyhood uses something based off of Nhl’s own stats. We are giveaway machines in our own zone nonetheless.

 

[zeke]

Y

Yeah. I only listed defensive zone giveaways. All 7 Canadian teams are in the Top 8 in that category. Thats pretty neat find actually. Keefe got asked about it and disputed how stats are being reported. Adv stats are turning in to a joke when he’s calling out the Nhl itself.
This site i linked likelyhood uses something based off of Nhl’s own stats. We are giveaway machines in our own zone nonetheless.

Giveaways and takeaways are ill-defined poorly recorded stats. I wouldn't pay too much attention to either.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

Every time zeke writes a post I think I'm reading a depreciation report for a BC strata.

And I like it

 

[cannucky]

Morgan Reilly is a Norris trophy candidate the same way I am a candidate for Prime Minister , sure somebody could put my name on a ballot but come on fellas figure it out eh !

 

[Mr Hockey]

Morgan Reilly is a Norris trophy candidate the same way I am a candidate for Prime Minister , sure somebody could put my name on a ballot but come on fellas figure it out eh !

He will never one but he is an ok #1, he plays decent in the dzone these days

 

[Notsince67]

Y

Yeah. I only listed defensive zone giveaways. All 7 Canadian teams are in the Top 8 in that category. Thats pretty neat find actually. Keefe got asked about it and disputed how stats are being reported. Adv stats are turning in to a joke when he’s calling out the Nhl itself.
This site i linked likelyhood uses something based off of Nhl’s own stats. We are giveaway machines in our own zone nonetheless.

driving stats this way sometimes misses the bigger picture. I would be more concerned over xgf% which would yield wieghted scoring opportunities for an against. Number of possessions is probably a better base.

 

[cannucky]

He will never one but he is an ok #1, he plays decent in the dzone these days

Except he isn't even our #1 , did you see him on the ice the last minute and a half of protecting the shut out ? No when it matters that we be good defensively his butt is glued to the bench where it belongs .

 

[Wafflewhipper]

driving stats this way sometimes misses the bigger picture. I would be more concerned over xgf% which would yield wieghted scoring opportunities for an against. Number of possessions is probably a better base.

All good. I do see to many giveaways in some scary areas of or own zone. Crazy little flips in to the circle off the cycle for a singular example. I see all the motion going on when one-of them tries and succeeds in these. They get picked off too.
It makes me cringe to-many times but like i said, they are successful at it mostly. Still not the safe play because it’s across the ice instead of forwarding the puck.