OT: MN High School Hockey Thread

[Minnewildsota]

But Edina has (until now, I guess).


You just kind of proved my point.

Except they literally can't prevent people from selling their houses.

But Edina has (until now, I guess).


You just kind of proved my point.

No, I didn't. You said the citizens didn't ask for it. Completely forgetting that the people in charge of said changes were elected by said citizens. Indirectly, the citizens asked for it.

 

[Northerner]

Except they literally can't prevent people from selling their houses.

Except you you just proved my point with your last post.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Except you you just proved my point with your last post.

Somehow I'm proving your points by writing the exact opposite of what you're saying. At this point, I'm confused what you're arguing.

"Edina hasn't changed. Why is that?" - Because it's an "ultrawealthy" neighborhood, in which only a small subset of the population can afford to live in. It's not because Edina has implemented some sort of rules to prevent people from moving out. It's more only a select percentage of people can afford to live there.

 

[joelef]

North St Paul. That doesn't have a high school team anymore. I understand the demographic has changed. Does it suck? Sure. But I can't say that hockey, as a whole, in Minnesota is on the down turn.

You're looking at this from a "city" view. We're looking at this at a state view.

Many rural communities are struggling too like the iron range . I don’t see how it’s healthy for the sport haveing your two major metro areas and many rural communities can’t put together hockey teams.

 

[TaLoN]

Many rural communities are struggling too like the iron range . I don’t see how it’s healthy for the sport haveing your two major metro areas and many rural communities can’t put together hockey teams.

That's been the case as long as I've been alive.

Hockey isn't cheap to play. The range has gone through hardships over the decades.

 

[TaLoN]

Hornets take the lead, this time Flaherty is the disher

 

[Northerner]

the people in charge of said changes were elected by said citizens. Indirectly, the citizens asked for it.

Wrong. You seem kind of naive regarding how it all works. How old are you? Not asking to be combative but you do come off naive if you believe everything is on the level regarding the topic you just brought up.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Hornets take the lead, this time Flaherty is the disher

boo! Booo! BOOOOOOO!

Wrong. You seem kind of naive regarding how it all works. How old are you? Not asking to be combative but you do come off naive if you believe everything is on the level regarding the topic you just brought up.

Please explain to me how I'm naïve, I'm very interested in this. Not that it's any of your business, but I'm 36.

My dad grew up playing for Johnson, and for Hill. So my family has tracked those hockey programs since I was born.

 

[Reaser]

A few players here and there move in open enrollment, but that's not causing the rest of the 50+ players that used to tryout for these programs to struggle to get enough to ice a team anymore... it's people moving more than anything.

Bit more than "here and there." Underestimating the amount of players that don't play for their community program. All levels, boys and girls.

In your own town of Farmington, 3 years ago there was 3 neighbors/houses in a row with kids playing hockey for Lakeville North (Peewee), kid at Lakeville South (Bantam) and a kid at Edina (Peewee.) Yes, lived in Farmington, kid played for Edina in Peewees.

It's not a lack of kids playing growing up, that's still a healthy number, it's where they play. And it's not solely because people with kids that play hockey all move(d) to the same town(s). They don't have to move.

Also underestimating when all the best players leave their home association, that once you get to the HS level, kids stop playing hockey for the sake of playing hockey. They don't want to lose 10-0 every game, they don't want to have a 0% chance of playing in The Tourney, or even a 0% of even sniffing a section final. That's where those kids stop playing because: "if I was good enough I wouldn't be playing in my own town, I'd be playing for [same teams that make tourney year after year.]"

Bigger issue in girls hockey than boys, I'd say. But much more of an issue than it happens "here and there." Closer to on-par with "demographics change" and "people move."

 

[Minnewildsota]

Bit more than "here and there." Underestimating the amount of players that don't play for their community program. All levels, boys and girls.

In your own town of Farmington, 3 years ago there was 3 neighbors/houses in a row with kids playing hockey for Lakeville North (Peewee), kid at Lakeville South (Bantam) and a kid at Edina (Peewee.) Yes, lived in Farmington, kid played for Edina in Peewees.

It's not a lack of kids playing growing up, that's still a healthy number, it's where they play. And it's not solely because people with kids that play hockey all move(d) to the same town(s). They don't have to move.

Also underestimating when all the best players leave their home association, that once you get to the HS level, kids stop playing hockey for the sake of playing hockey. They don't want to lose 10-0 every game, they don't want to have a 0% chance of playing in The Tourney, or even a 0% of even sniffing a section final. That's where those kids stop playing because: "if I was good enough I wouldn't be playing in my own town, I'd be playing for [same teams that make tourney year after year.]"

Bigger issue in girls hockey than boys, I'd say. But much more of an issue than it happens "here and there." Closer to on-par with "demographics change" and "people move."

This is a bit of chicken or the egg. If the best players stay, they wouldn't be losing by that much and, in theory, would help their team's chance to make the tourney.

 

[TaLoN]

Bit more than "here and there." Underestimating the amount of players that don't play for their community program. All levels, boys and girls.

In your own town of Farmington, 3 years ago there was 3 neighbors/houses in a row with kids playing hockey for Lakeville North (Peewee), kid at Lakeville South (Bantam) and a kid at Edina (Peewee.) Yes, lived in Farmington, kid played for Edina in Peewees.

It's not a lack of kids playing growing up, that's still a healthy number, it's where they play. And it's not solely because people with kids that play hockey all move(d) to the same town(s). They don't have to move.

Also underestimating when all the best players leave their home association, that once you get to the HS level, kids stop playing hockey for the sake of playing hockey. They don't want to lose 10-0 every game, they don't want to have a 0% chance of playing in The Tourney, or even a 0% of even sniffing a section final. That's where those kids stop playing because: "if I was good enough I wouldn't be playing in my own town, I'd be playing for [same teams that make tourney year after year.]"

Bigger issue in girls hockey than boys, I'd say. But much more of an issue than it happens "here and there." Closer to on-par with "demographics change" and "people move."

I played youth sports in Minneapolis then played HS sports in New Prague and open enrollment had nothing to do with it. That is the far larger cause is my point.

 

[TaLoN]

Hornets up 3-1 now btw.... scored on a breakaway

 

[Minnewildsota]

Hornets up 3-1 now btw.... scored on a breakaway

Is there a dislike button? What about mega loathe?

 

[Northerner]

boo! Booo! BOOOOOOO!


Please explain to me how I'm naïve, I'm very interested in this. Not that it's any of your business, but I'm 36.

My dad grew up playing for Johnson, and for Hill. So my family has tracked those hockey programs since I was born.

If you think that people who are given power always do what their people want, or what is ultimately in the best interest of their constituents, you are absolutely naive.

Your point about NSP and Maplewood supports my point that the changes were not organic in these communities. There are plenty more of those examples. Woodbury, for example. Hopkins another.

 

[TaLoN]

Nice play by Lindberg to cut the Hornets lead in half!

 

[TaLoN]

Your point about NSP and Maplewood supports my point that the changes were not organic in these communities. There are plenty more of those examples. Woodbury, for example. Hopkins another.

The needs of society outweigh the needs of the hockey community. But that's now getting overly political, so let's not go that route and get back to the tournament.

We have a hell of a game on the ice right now!

 

[Minnewildsota]

If you think that people who are given power always do what their people want, or what is ultimately in the best interest of their constituents, you are absolutely naive.

Your point about NSP and Maplewood supports my point that the changes were not organic in these communities. There are plenty more of those examples. Woodbury, for example. Hopkins another.

I never said they did. Obviously, you didn't read my post, or decided to put words in my mouth. I said the people in charge made those decisions. The people in charge were elected by the citizens, by virtue, that puts citizens indirectly responsible for those changes.

I don't know how you can define what's organic changes and what's not. Please do elaborate on what you would define as organic.

 

[TaLoN]

Dammit, Hornets answer

 

[TaLoN]

Might be offside, that back skate is off the ice

 

[Minnewildsota]

No goal! According to me, who is in no way biased.

 

[TaLoN]

Nope, good goal, they couldn't tell if the blade was elevated or not.

 

[Reaser]

This is a bit of chicken or the egg. If the best players stay, they wouldn't be losing by that much and, in theory, would help their team's chance to make the tourney.

Yup. Not what happens, though. Consolidation of talent. MN HS Hockey is headed away from community based to more regional based. A lot more programs will be ending in the coming years.

Personally hope it stays HS hockey but at a certain point when it's the same 8 schools (7 of 8 this year) in the tourney year after year, it might stop being tied to HS and instead become something else and that's when you'll start to lose more kids playing growing up since it won't be tied to the community based model anymore.

 

[TaLoN]

Ugh, Alderson almost immediately answered back

 

[Minnewildsota]

For those wondering if hockey numbers are dwindling, I found this. It's from 2022.

Minnesota Hockey Breaks National & State Record for 8 & Under Players

The final registration report from USA Hockey has been released following USA Hockey Annual Congress and Minnesota Hockey has established a new record of 8 & Under (8U) players with 19,079. That number marks the first time Minnesota has surpassed the 19,000 8U player mark. The total helped Minnesota Hockey establish a record for total players as well, with 58,666 players of all ages gearing up across the state.

The 19,079 8U players includes 13,631 boys and a record 5,448 girls and is an increase of 12.2% over 2020-21. As encouraging as the 8U number is, perhaps the most encouraging statistic is that Minnesota had its largest number of new 8U players with 7,912 boys and girls suiting up for the first time.

 

[TaLoN]

Yup. Not what happens, though. Consolidation of talent. MN HS Hockey is headed away from community based to more regional based. A lot more programs will be ending in the coming years.

Personally hope it stays HS hockey but at a certain point when it's the same 8 schools (7 of 8 this year) in the tourney year after year, it might stop being tied to HS and instead become something else and that's when you'll start to lose more kids playing growing up since it won't be tied to the community based model anymore.

The repeat appearances this year is out of the norm in recent years actually. I think it happened due to the youth of last year's field more than anything else.