OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXV

[SA16]

The Yankees would get laughed at if they offered Andujar for Vlad. I doubt the Blue Jays would even take Torres for him.

 

[Cassano]

No, it’s not. It’s understanding that proven product trumps potential.

Trout didn’t have an 80 grade bat, but hit over .320 and 30 homers, so who’s to say that the 80 grade could be totally wrong and that he doesn’t hit major league pitching like that, especially in a lineup where he doesn’t have protection?

Like I said, we’ll talk when he gets there.

Nah chief, you are being too stubborn on 'proven production' mindset.

 

[One Winged Angel]

The difference in the projection between Trout and Vlad is equivalent to the difference between Vlad and a below average hitter (i.e. Eduardo Nunez). So no. He is not projected to be anywhere close to Trout.

So I have no reason to trade an asset with tons of team control that’s proven he he can hit in one of the toughest divisions in baseball and had an incredible rookie year, carrying a lineup that he had no business carrying.

When Vlad Jr. does that, then we can re-visit.

 

[SA16]

He's not that great of a hitter and I'd likely be willing to bet that he never has a 4 WAR season.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Nah chief, you are being too stubborn on 'proven production' mindset.

So I’m a homer because I’m not willing to trade a rookie of the year runner up for a wildcard?

Whatever you say, Slappy. Somehow, Vlad Jr. is Mike friggin Trout, even though as a player, he was never heralded to be that type of prospect.

Somehow, it’s a GIVEN that he has a better rookie year than Andujar, even though there’s ZERO EVIDENCE that he could do so, other than a grade given for his bat, while Andujar did it against MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHING.

 

[SA16]

Over the last ten years the highest wRC+ any hitter with a BB% of 6 or under is 116. Starling Marte and Corey Dickerson.

So essentially you are stating he is the biggest outlier in the league.

Either that or he is not nearly as good.

 

[One Winged Angel]

He's not that great of a hitter and I'd likely be willing to bet that he never has a 4 WAR season.

Not that great of a hitter? .297 with 27 HR, 92 RBI’s and 47 doubles as a rookie isn’t great?

How many rookie seasons have been better in the past 20 years? Harper and Machado weren’t better. Trout had better average and homers, but Andujar had 20 more doubles than Trout. Andujar had the same amount of Doubles as Pujols in their rookie years and Pujols arguably had the best rookie year ever.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Over the last ten years the highest wRC+ any hitter with a BB% of 6 or under is 116. Starling Marte and Corey Dickerson.

So essentially you are stating he is the biggest outlier in the league.

Either that or he is not nearly as good.

So what you’re trying to say is that he can’t a high average hitter going forward because he doesn’t walk?

Wasn’t the same thing said about Robinson Cano?

 

[Bob Richards]

Trout's rookie season was literally one of the greatest any seasons in the history of baseball so focusing on Andujar's doubles is rather pointless.

They are literally not even remotely comparable. Pujols as well.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Trout's rookie season was literally one of the greatest any seasons in the history of baseball so focusing on Andujar's doubles is rather pointless.

They are literally not even remotely comparable. Pujols as well.

I’m not comparing them. What I’m saying is that Andujar had an extremely high amount of doubles as a rookie, but hey, let’s ignore that because narratives.

 

[Cassano]

Yankees had three rookies recently better than Andujar. Judge, Sanchez and Torres.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yankees had three rookies recently better than Andujar. Judge, Sanchez and Torres.

Judge, absolutely. His rookie season is one of the best seasons ever. I don’t think you’ll ever see another player hit over .280 while leading the majors with over 200 SO’s and hit 50 homers and 110 RBI’s with an OBP of over .400. That might be a once in a lifetime type season.

Edit: the only thing with Judge is that many believe that he had an abnormally high BABIP in the first half of that season, being why he was hitting .330 at the all-star break.

Sanchez? Sanchez didn’t even play the full season, even though I think he should have won rookie of the year and I think he would have absolutely smashed about 40-45 homers.

But Torres? Torres didn’t even finish ahead of Andujar in the voting and Torres’ defense was shoddy at times as well. That’s a gigantic reach. I can at least understand the argument for Sanchez.

 

[sbjnyc]

Are you seriously comparing Andujar to Trout? Trout had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever - won ROTY and finished 2nd in MVP voting. And he was 20. His wRC+ was 167 which was the lowest of his career. Harper won ROTY the same year at age 19 and didn't have nearly as good a season as Trout.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Are you seriously comparing Andujar to Trout? Trout had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever - won ROTY and finished 2nd in MVP voting. And he was 20. His wRC+ was 167 which was the lowest of his career. Harper won ROTY the same year at age 19 and didn't have nearly as good a season as Trout.

Can you not read? I said he had more doubles.

 

[sbjnyc]

Can you not read? I said he had more doubles.

That's nice.

 

[Bob Richards]

I’m not comparing them. What I’m saying is that Andujar had an extremely high amount of doubles as a rookie, but hey, let’s ignore that because narratives.

You did, hence the "how many rookie seasons were better" paragraph. I'd wager there have been quite a few to be honest.

 

[Machinehead]

I would drive Andujar to Toronto myself for Vlad, but it's disingenuous to say he's not a good hitter.

 

[One Winged Angel]

So let me get this straight. It’s ok to crown a prospect, albeit a good one on the same level that Mike Trout was as a prospect, even though there is zero evidence to show that he was on that level and that’s not a comparison, but it’s not ok to point out that Andujar had more doubles as a rookie than Mike Trout and that is a comparison.

Incredible, absolutely incredible.

 

[One Winged Angel]

You did, hence the "how many rookie seasons were better" paragraph. I'd wager there have been quite a few to be honest.

No, I know Trout had a better rookie year, as did Pujols, as did Ichiro.

So then tell me who?

 

[Cassano]

• Before the Rangers dealt Jurickson Profar to the Athletics as part of a three-team trade with the Rays, Texas also explored another three-team scenario involving the Yankees and Braves. “There was traction, at one point,” Passan writes about a deal that would have seen the Yankees get Profar, the Braves get Sonny Gray, and Texas would have received a prospect (presumably from Atlanta’s farm system).

MLBTR.

Man this would've been an amazing move.

 

[One Winged Angel]

• Before the Rangers dealt Jurickson Profar to the Athletics as part of a three-team trade with the Rays, Texas also explored another three-team scenario involving the Yankees and Braves. “There was traction, at one point,” Passan writes about a deal that would have seen the Yankees get Profar, the Braves get Sonny Gray, and Texas would have received a prospect (presumably from Atlanta’s farm system).

MLBTR.

Man this would've been an amazing move.

Yeah and Cashman wanted Trammell from Cincy... that’s some posturing there, Brian.

Can anyone get him a wheelbarrow so he can walk around with his balls in it like Randy Marsh?

 

[darko]

How does Vlad compare as a prospect to Torres as a prospect?

Gleyber was top-5 going into last season but Vlad is a whole different beast. Vlad ripped through high minors at age 19 and if not for Jays delaying his arbitration clock he would've made his MLB debut.

 

[darko]

So let me get this straight. It’s ok to crown a prospect, albeit a good one on the same level that Mike Trout was as a prospect, even though there is zero evidence to show that he was on that level and that’s not a comparison, but it’s not ok to point out that Andujar had more doubles as a rookie than Mike Trout and that is a comparison.

Incredible, absolutely incredible.

Ok he had more doubles, so what? Barry Bonds only had 26 doubles in his rookie year.

Just wait til you see Vlad play several times and you'll see his special.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Ok he had more doubles, so what? Barry Bonds only had 26 doubles in his rookie year.

Just wait til you see Vlad play several times and you'll see his special.

Is that what you’ve gotten out of this?

The point is that he’d have to have a Pujols or Trout type rookie season to live up to the hype and the odds of him having a better rookie year than Andujar are not nearly as great as you think they are.

I’m not saying that he won’t be a special hitter, I’m just saying that right now, it’s not a given that he’ll do that as a rookie, especially in this era.

 

[darko]

If Vlad is with Blue Jays come opening day I'd be willing to bet he has a better rookie year than Andujar.

The only downside to Vlad is that be can be a butcher in the field. Imo he profiles better as a LF.