Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
For one of the absolute top prospects in baseball like Vlad Jr, you have to do it, and I like Andujar.
OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXV
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BroadwayBlues
KK24
People thought Machado was playing SS here. Didn't make sense. Machado at SS and Andujar at 3B don't improve your defense.
Machado will play 3rd and Andujar dealt.
Machado will play 3rd and Andujar dealt.
SA16
Sixstring
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
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One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
No, I wouldn’t. Vlad Jr. isn’t even the level of prospect that Trout and Harper were.
Andujar carried the Yankees for at least half of the season.
Proven Product > Potential
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
It’s not his range, it’s his arm that was absolutely atrocious. He botched many throws to 1st. That can improve.
At least if you’re gonna shit on him, get the reasoning right.
darko
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Worst range amongst 3Bs in baseball according to Fangraphs. Andujar has a cannon arm. Accuracy needs work but it's a very strong arm.
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
That’s why I said he botched throws to 3rd...
A lot of that is footwork and timing, which can improve.
SA16
Sixstring
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
So he’s projected to be Trout? If and when it happens, we’ll talk. He isn’t that level of prospect. No matter what your projection says, he simply wasn’t on the level that they were on. They were the two biggest locks baseball America has projected possibly ever.
I’ll take the proven product that has produced at this level already and is a top hitter. Just under .300, just under 30 homers, over 90 RBI’s and 47 doubles as a rookie.
Vlad Jr. would have to have a Trout/Pujols type rookie year to surpass that. I don’t see it.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Why not just move Andujar to 1b? Or just DH him? Seems like there's a solution to getting his bat in the lineup without letting his defense kill you?
SA16
Sixstring
The difference in the projection between Trout and Vlad is equivalent to the difference between Vlad and a below average hitter (i.e. Eduardo Nunez). So no. He is not projected to be anywhere close to Trout.
He is definitely on that tier. He is the only prospect ever to have an 80 grade bat IIRC. He'll probably be in batting title contention in his rookie year.
Not willing to trade Andujar for him is blatant homerism.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Wol the fact that someone would not trade Andujar for Vlad Jr because he isnt Trout or Harper is beyond lunacy. Vlad Jr is as close to a sure thing prospect that we have seen in a longtime. Just because he isn’t in the show just yet.
I like Andujar but that is so far gone, its just wow.
I like Andujar but that is so far gone, its just wow.
Except it's not. Vlad Jr is a top prospect, but he's still UNPROVEN at the MLB level. Plenty of top prospects have busted at the show before.
Come back to me when Vlad Jr hits just under .300, just under 30 homers, over 90 RBI’s and 47 doubles as a rookie. Andujar did that in his rookie season. It's not homerism, just reality. If anything, this is underrating Andujar.
Andujar had a 2.2/2.7 WAR per baseball-reference.com/Fangraphs in 2018. With about 40% of Andujar's PAs, Jeff McNeil had a 2.4/2.7 WAR. Fangraphs also has McNeil with a 137 wRC+ to Andujar's 128. It just seems like there's something terribly wrong with using those stats to compare these players.
Andujar or Vlad Jr. is such a modern baseball problem. 20 years ago, it's probably a no-brainer, Andujar is the guy you'd take. You'd look at the bat and not really care about the D and that would be that. But now, prospects are arguably overvalued, and a guy like Vlad who is one of the best prospects in the past decade is going to have incredible value. More so than a young guy who has already done some really nice things at the ML level.
I don't think anyone would be wrong to say they'd prefer Andujar to Vlad, but I'd bet that almost every GM out there would prefer Vlad to Andujar, just because that's where we're at with the valuation of high-end prospects. GMs will bet on Vlad being a superstar as opposed to Andujar just being a really good bat without a natural position.
I don't think anyone would be wrong to say they'd prefer Andujar to Vlad, but I'd bet that almost every GM out there would prefer Vlad to Andujar, just because that's where we're at with the valuation of high-end prospects. GMs will bet on Vlad being a superstar as opposed to Andujar just being a really good bat without a natural position.
I think everyone considered Torres a top five or ten prospect when he graduated last year. He was a guy that everyone knew would hit a lot and play decent/solid defense at 2B. Someone who would make a bunch of AS teams in his career.
Guerrero, I think most places consider him the be the #1 prospect in the game, maybe the best bat to come through in a decade. I mean shit, he's 19 and in AA he hit .402 with an 1.120 OPS, which is just absolutely unheard of. Then he went to AAA and posted a .978 OPS, again, at 19. The stuff he's doing is just ridiculous. All the scouts say he'll be a perennial contender for batting and HR titles. Although--amusingly given the Andujar talk--how long he can stick at 3B is a question. But, the bat is incredible.
SA16
Sixstring
It's pretty simple. Andujar is good at things that are easy to see and bad at things that aren't. When he hits the ball he hits it well. He makes a lot of contact. He very rarely walks but by watching the games can you really tell the difference between a guy who walks five times in a month compared to a guy who walks ten times? I doubt it. Because of that he doesn't get on base that much but again there's no way by eye you can discern the difference between someone with a .320 OBP anda .350 OBP. The difference is like 5 times on base per month. His range is bad in the field but that's something very hard to see and often the play will just be credited to the batter hitting the ball well in the right spot.
Comparing him to McNeill - McNeill hit for a better average and OBP. He hit for less power. He played in a significantly tougher park. He played reasonably good defense at a tougher position. He's a better baserunner. It makes total sense to me that McNeill would easily have a better wRC+. The WAR difference I am surprised about given the him playing time difference but Andujar's defense really brings him down.
Comparing him to McNeill - McNeill hit for a better average and OBP. He hit for less power. He played in a significantly tougher park. He played reasonably good defense at a tougher position. He's a better baserunner. It makes total sense to me that McNeill would easily have a better wRC+. The WAR difference I am surprised about given the him playing time difference but Andujar's defense really brings him down.
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
No, it’s not. It’s understanding that proven product trumps potential.
Trout didn’t have an 80 grade bat, but hit over .320 and 30 homers, so who’s to say that the 80 grade could be totally wrong and that he doesn’t hit major league pitching like that, especially in a lineup where he doesn’t have protection?
Like I said, we’ll talk when he gets there.
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