OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXIII

[LeetchisGod]

The Astros had a lower batting average than the Yankees did during their 7 game set...

According to you, we should have won.


And there are much better offensive stats than batting average, which has almost become the +\- of baseball.

Stanton's OBP isn't spectacular either. He hits homers and he strikes out.

 

[Machinehead]

In the starter division, Pedro and Randy Johnson were the two most dominant, IMO, in my life. I saw a few good years of Nolan Ryan as well. Clemens is up there. Maddux and Glavine were also amazing, but they weren't "dominant" the way the other guys were. Like Pedro and Randy, they would just wreck your ****.

I'm probably forgetting guys.

Well, let me be clear on the standard I'm using. I'm talking about Mariano Rivera has a 205 ERA+. Second all-time is at 159. One at-bat, pitcher vs batter, nobody was as untouchable.

If we're talking about dominant in terms of value, completely different animal. Clemens is top 10 all-time in WAR, but peak Pedro was the fear of God.

 

[Ghost of jas]

This potential Cano deal is going to be a total clusterf***. How does Seattle have any leverage here?

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[nyr2k2]

Well, let me be clear on the standard I'm using. I'm talking about Mariano Rivera has a 205 ERA+. Second all-time is at 159. One at-bat, pitcher vs batter, nobody was as untouchable.

If we're talking about dominant in terms of value, completely different animal. Clemens is top 10 all-time in WAR, but peak Pedro was the fear of God.

Thing is, say you took Randy Johnson, and at 24 said, "Hey kid, you're going to close." In single-inning intervals, could he have been as dominant? I'm not going to argue he would be, but I think it's possible. deGrom just had an ERA+ of 216 in basically three years' worth of innings for a closer; could he repeat his performance if he were pitching an inning at a time? That's probably what impresses me most about Rivera--it wasn't just that he was dominant as a closer, but he was that dominant for so many years.

I still don't like comparing relievers to starters, though. Not using any stat. Though it's the same physical activity, the requirements of the role, to be great in the role, are very different.

 

[Machinehead]

Thing is, say you took Randy Johnson, and at 24 said, "Hey kid, you're going to close." In single-inning intervals, could he have been as dominant? I'm not going to argue he would be, but I think it's possible. deGrom just had an ERA+ of 216 in basically three years' worth of innings for a closer; could he repeat his performance if he were pitching an inning at a time? That's probably what impresses me most about Rivera--it wasn't just that he was dominant as a closer, but he was that dominant for so many years.

I still don't like comparing relievers to starters, though. Not using any stat. Though it's the same physical activity, the requirements of the role, to be great in the role, are very different.

Fair enough.

Happy birthday to the most dominant reliever ever and all-around good guy.

49 already

 

[nyr2k2]

"Rosenthal says that the Mets’ offer includes some, but not all, of the following players: Jay Bruce, Anthony Swarzak, Jeff McNeil, and prospects Jarred Kelenic and Justin Dunn."

Later it says Vargas could also be in the mix. If it's some combination of the roster players, plus a single prospect, I could live with that.

Mets’ trade talks with Mariners for Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz ‘reaching critical stage’

 

[darko]

Well, let me be clear on the standard I'm using. I'm talking about Mariano Rivera has a 205 ERA+. Second all-time is at 159. One at-bat, pitcher vs batter, nobody was as untouchable.

If we're talking about dominant in terms of value, completely different animal. Clemens is top 10 all-time in WAR, but peak Pedro was the fear of God.

ERA+ will say that 2000 was Pedro's most dominant season but IMO it's 1999.

 

[Ghost of jas]

"Rosenthal says that the Mets’ offer includes some, but not all, of the following players: Jay Bruce, Anthony Swarzak, Jeff McNeil, and prospects Jarred Kelenic and Justin Dunn."

Later it says Vargas could also be in the mix. If it's some combination of the roster players, plus a single prospect, I could live with that.

Mets’ trade talks with Mariners for Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz ‘reaching critical stage’

I’m okay with it being Dunn. Giving up Kelenic or McNeil is just brain dead strength stupid.

 

[darko]

Jon Heyman: Astros, Dodgers, Yankees all showing interest in J.T. Realmuto

I would be okay with moving Gary+ for him, that's the only deal that makes sense imo.

Well we need a 1B instead and we can rotate him and Gary there. I would go all in for him...

There is no way you trade Sanchez for Realmuto. 1 bad year has made people forget how good Sanchez is.

 

[darko]

You should be, hes a stud.

Anything with Dunn as the centerpiece is a win though.

Yeah it'd be a mistake to trade Kelenic.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[Bob Richards]

NOW THIS IS TERRIBLE. THIS IS CLOWNERY

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

 

[RGY]

 

[Ghost of jas]

I may be done as a Met fan if that’s the deal. Until the Wilpons are gone, I see no reason to support this franchise anymore.

 

[BMOK33]

I may be done as a Met fan if that’s the deal. Until the Wilpons are gone, I see no reason to support this franchise anymore.

This just feels like a panic move to get fans in the seats. The reality is there’s a good chance this deal busts on both sides.

 

[Crease]

The Wilpons do the stupidest shit to try to convince the world they're not broke.

 

[Bob Richards]

I like how a thoughtful and interesting way to build assets immediately turns malignant and poisonous just like that.

Somehow with a salary dump player with a NTC, we are the ones getting bottle necked.

 

[BMOK33]

The Wilpons do the stupidest **** to try to convince the world they're not broke.

I have to think this is mostly them. I don’t think this guy would be this stupid to do this

 

[Ghost of jas]

This just feels like a panic move to get fans in the seats. The reality is there’s a good chance this deal busts on both sides.

From what I’m reading, it’s just about done. The only bust in this deal will be Cano for the next five years.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I like how a thoughtful and interesting way to build assets immediately turns malignant and poisonous just like that.

Somehow with a salary dump player with a NTC, we are the ones getting bottle necked.

Bottle necked is putting it kindly, but I guess we don’t need another thread cleaned up.

 

[BMOK33]

From what I’m reading, it’s just about done. The only bust in this deal will be Cano for the next five years.

Odds are everyone but maybe Kelenic busts. Dunn’s control is awful and McNeil doesn’t have a long history of guy’s who followed that minor league trajectory and splits and produced at the majors after age 23-24. It’s still not a smart deal though

 

[New York RKY]

Good job by the Yankees not getting involved with that honestly.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Odds are everyone but maybe Kelenic busts. Dunn’s control is awful and McNeil doesn’t have a long history of guy’s who followed that minor league trajectory and splits and produced at the majors after age 23-24. It’s still not a smart deal though

To be honest, Kelenic is what I’m worried about. How do you give up your best prospect in this kind of deal? Losing Dunn doesn’t bother me, and I guess you could be selling high on McNeil. Including Kelenic is just amazingly stupid.