Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[nsleaf]

It's not a matter of "getting rid of" anyone, why do people keep trotting out that stupid straw man? It's about what could be done with the freed up cap space and let's say instead of Marner, we spent it on two Muzzin type Dmen, do you think there's a chance that overall, we'd be better defensively?

I suggest thinking before you answer, thinking a bit has been known to improve the quality of posts.

They'd be on LTIR, so probably not.

 

[Aashir]

You’d think this is a Nylander with all his talk

lol I love how we are arguing who’s a worse playoff performer, not better

Both need to step it tf up come playoff time, no more being content that Marner shutdown a third line Center in danault, and no more being content that nylander finally was a plus player. Both guys need to show up and play at the same time

 

[thusk]

I think that would be good. Not to overplay any line and spread out the offense and create match up problems for opposition. And if we need to stack as an in-game adjustment if we are chasing the game we can do that too.

The only thing is that Leas/Keefe have consistently used Matthews-Marner as a defensive match up against opposition top lines with Marner being really solid defensively; so it would be a change from the past strategy (not that I will complain about it).

I would make one change though. I would swap Knies and Jankrok in the line up. Holmberg would need as much help at "C" and having Jankrok and Marner flank him would help him especially in the playoffs.

IMO Knies and Tavares have shown some chemistry so that would be good (remember the OT goal from Tampa series ).

exactly, i think that will just benefit everyone to play less but with higher level of energy.

For your change on line up, the reason you gave is exactly the reason why i put Karnkrok with JT and nylander because for me the duo at risk defensively between jt/nylander holmberg/marner, its jt/nylander. but can also be Kampf or Dewar with Marner, depend how chemistry going.

And for me knies with marner making more sense than Jarnkrok. A big body player winning battle, rushing to the net, able to battle in front of the net to create screen or win space.

LOL no, not true at all, it was obvious to many of us that the 3rd year would be a problem the minute that contract was signed. There was LOTS of discussion about this that began the day the signing was announced and I'm pretty sure you were here at the time so it would seem that your memory is failling you on this occasion.


Nylander is actually the only one of our stars who's level of production does NOT go down in the playoffs so this is just wrong.

In powerplay, youre right he didn't go down but....

1.92 primary points/60 in season --------> 0.69 primary pts/60 played at 5v5 last 18 game, if his production doesn't go down, we clearly dont have the same definition of it

Tavares 1.47 ----> 1.44 = - 0.03
marner 2.37---> 2.11= -.26
matthews 2.56 ----> 1.56 = -1 00
nylander 1.92 -----> 0.69 = -1.23

 

[Gary Nylund]

They'd be on LTIR, so probably not.

Or maybe they're on the ice, locking down the top players in the NHL on the way to winning cups. I don't know about you but if we could do that, I don't mind if we later trade them to restock the prospect pool before they to on the LTIR.

Seriously dude, I know you love to shit over anything and everything I say but you need to put a little more thought into your hate, that was pretty lame.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In powerplay, youre right he didn't go down but....

1.62 primary points/60 in season --------> 0.69 primary pts/60 played at 5v5 last 18 game, if his production doesn't go down, we clearly dont have the same definition of it

Tavares 1.47 ----> 1.44 = - 0.03
marner 2.37---> 2.11= -.26
matthews 2.56 ----> 1.56 = -1 00
nylander 1.92 -----> 0.69 = -1.23

Last 18 playoff games, is this what this means? Why would you pick a weird number like that?

Anyhow, I believe the numbers posted earlier were based on the last 5 years, PP goals count the same as ES goals and considering how much trouble we've had on the PP in the playoffs, I wouldn't put down someone who can actually score no matter how or when he does it. I'd post the numbers again for all our top 4 forwards but I'd hate to do it as it seems some people get upset by that sort of thing and I wouldn't want to melt any snowflakes.

 

[Racer88]

It's not a matter of "getting rid of" anyone, why do people keep trotting out that stupid straw man? It's about what could be done with the freed up cap space and let's say instead of Marner, we spent it on two Muzzin type Dmen, do you think there's a chance that overall, we'd be better defensively?

I suggest thinking before you answer, thinking a bit has been known to improve the quality of posts.

They keep bringing that out because it’s all they got.

 

[thusk]

Last 18 playoff games, is this what this means? Why would you pick a weird number like that?

Anyhow, I believe the numbers posted earlier were based on the last 5 years, PP goals count the same as ES goals and considering how much trouble we've had on the PP in the playoffs, I wouldn't put down someone who can actually score no matter how or when he does it. I'd post the numbers again for all our top 4 forwards but I'd hate to do it as it seems some people get upset by that sort of thing and I wouldn't want to melt any snowflakes.

its last 2 playoff, last 3 series leafs played (7+6+5 =18). and yes powerplay count as much but doesn't erase the fact he had been pretty useless at 5v5.

5v5 regular ----> playoff
nylander drop 178%
matthews drop of 64%
marner drop of 12%
tavares drop of 2%

pp season--->playoff
jt drop of230%
am drop of 58%
mm drop of 13%
wn raise of 19 %

at the end the only player producting basically at the same rate season or playoff, its Marner

 

[Gary Nylund]

its last 2 playoff, last 3 series leafs played (7+6+5 =18). and yes powerplay count as much but doesn't erase the fact he had been pretty useless at 5v5.

5v5 regular ----> playoff
nylander drop 178%
matthews drop of 64%
marner drop of 12%
tavares drop of 2%

pp season--->playoff
jt drop of230%
am drop of 58%
mm drop of 13%
wn raise of 19 %

at the end the only player producting basically at the same rate season or playoff, its Marner

Wow, look at those awesome PP numbers for Nylander, sweet!

Last 5 years, Marner's production playoffs compared to regular season is down about 20% whereas Nylander's actually goes up a bit. All situations of course, no cherries picked. I wonder how much better Nylander's 5on5 numbers would be if he had a superstar on his line to work with the way Marner does? That's neither here nor there of course, I just think it's just cool that Nylander produces the way he does no matter who he plays with.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If you can find another player of Nylander's calibre on a $7 million deal, I'm all ears.

You won't find many at his calibre for $11.5!

 

[thusk]

Wow, look at those awesome PP numbers for Nylander, sweet!

Last 5 years, Marner's production playoffs compared to regular season is down about 20% whereas Nylander's actually goes up a bit. All situations of course, no cherries picked. I wonder how much better Nylander's 5on5 numbers would be if he had a superstar on his line to work with the way Marner does? That's neither here nor there of course, I just think it's just cool that Nylander produces the way he does no matter who he plays with.

so the fact nylander played with a ppg carreer guy unstead of elite sniper is whats explain why nylander had only 3 points in 18 at 5v5? The same guy he was playing with the majority of the time in regular season is the reason why his production drop of 178% when his line teammate only drop of 3%?!?!?! continu that way, you're really funny

keefe tries 1 like 1 game matthews with nylander but when he saw that line completly be destroy and line unable to move out of their own zone, he didn't waste time and they split them..

 

[Gary Nylund]

so the fact nylander played with a ppg carreer guy unstead of elite sniper is whats explain why nylander had only 3 points in 18 at 5v5? The same guy he was playing with the majority of the time in regular season is the reason why his production drop of 178% when his line teammate only drop of 3%?!?!?! continu that way, you're really funny

keefe tries 1 like 1 game matthews with nylander but when he saw that line completly be destroy and line unable to move out of their own zone, he didn't waste time and they split them..

Small sample sizes don't require explanation. If they did, I'd be asking you why the team is scoring like crazy ever since Marner, the "engine of the team" got injured. Like tonight, we're taking apart the best defensive team in the league, not bad eh?

 

[Antropovsky]

Leafs are now 7-3-1 with Marner injured. 46 gf and 31 ga, +15 goal differential.

Matthews: 11 games 8 goals 17 points

 

[thusk]

Small sample sizes don't require explanation. If they did, I'd be asking you why the team is scoring like crazy ever since Marner, the "engine of the team" got injured. Like tonight, we're taking apart the best defensive team in the league, not bad eh?

playoff are always small simple 4-5-6-7 game if youre not good enought after that, youre out.... and we talking about playoff not regular season game

in 6 game last season against tampa, nylander cost more goal by lack of defensive work ( i count 4 goal) than what he bring in 3 series at 5v5 and for you, its okay because he was producing in pp?

again tonight after a great shift where he worked hard in the offensive end and winning physical battle, couple of second he had to backcheck on a 2v1 from florida and he forfeited at leafs blue line and florida almost scored because of it. After the rest of the team see this and 2-3 will start to do the same thing.

if youre not working hard in playoff at 5v5, you will not get the puck a lot and you will defend most of the time and it will be extremely hard to produce. Thats exactly why nylander still able to produce on pp but unable to produce at 5v5 and why keefe cant keep Nylander with Matthews ...because thats forcing Matthews to work 2X and waste 2X more energy to the same thing than when he was playing with marner.

Nylander having more skill than Marner but marner play harder and with more heart than Nylander and thats why marner easily outplayed nylander at 5v5 in playoff and its not even close.

 

[ACC1224]

Hopefully he’s back by Wednesday. Team looks so out of sync without him.
(I know the simple thought is they win without him)

 

[Antropovsky]

Hopefully he’s back by Wednesday. Team looks so out of sync without him.
(I know the simple thought is they win without him)

Your tune has changed. Below was your post after three games of him being out.

Crazy how much he’s missed.

Don't blame you, definitely hard to argue that its "crazy how much he's missed" when the team is 7-3-1 with +15 goal production without him and Matthew's is producing more than 2x the points without him than he was with him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

so the fact nylander played with a ppg carreer guy unstead of elite sniper is whats explain why nylander had only 3 points in 18 at 5v5? The same guy he was playing with the majority of the time in regular season is the reason why his production drop of 178% when his line teammate only drop of 3%?!?!?! continu that way, you're really funny

keefe tries 1 like 1 game matthews with nylander but when he saw that line completly be destroy and line unable to move out of their own zone, he didn't waste time and they split them..

It's amazing that, no matter how many times it's been pointed out that Tavares is not, and never has been, a career ppg player, some desperate posters need to call him that.

 

[notDatsyuk]

playoff are always small simple 4-5-6-7 game if youre not good enought after that, youre out.... and we talking about playoff not regular season game

in 6 game last season against tampa, nylander cost more goal by lack of defensive work ( i count 4 goal) than what he bring in 3 series at 5v5 and for you, its okay because he was producing in pp?

again tonight after a great shift where he worked hard in the offensive end and winning physical battle, couple of second he had to backcheck on a 2v1 from florida and he forfeited at leafs blue line and florida almost scored because of it. After the rest of the team see this and 2-3 will start to do the same thing.

if youre not working hard in playoff at 5v5, you will not get the puck a lot and you will defend most of the time and it will be extremely hard to produce. Thats exactly why nylander still able to produce on pp but unable to produce at 5v5 and why keefe cant keep Nylander with Matthews ...because thats forcing Matthews to work 2X and waste 2X more energy to the same thing than when he was playing with marner.

Nylander having more skill than Marner but marner play harder and with more heart than Nylander and thats why marner easily outplayed nylander at 5v5 in playoff and its not even close.

It's impressive how you can find 'mistakes' that Nylander supposedly made that nobody else can see, and yet can't see any mistakes made by anyone else.

What is your problem with him?

A statement like "marner play harder and with more heart than Nylander and thats why marner easily outplayed nylander at 5v5 in playoff and its not even close (sic)" is pretty clear evidence that your viewpoint is skewed.

 

[Seras]

Why are the players numbers worse playing against one good team in a series than it is for them to score against the rest of the league, I can't figure this out plz help

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why are the players numbers worse playing against one good team in a series than it is for them to score against the rest of the league, I can't figure this out plz help

I think the question is more "why does one player NOT have worse numbers?"

Or even more, "why does one poster seem to want to lay all the blame on the one player who's numbers didn't get worse?"

 

[meefer]

It's amazing that, no matter how many times it's been pointed out that Tavares is not, and never has been, a career ppg player, some desperate posters need to call him that.

I suppose it's that over an 1101 game career he's scored 1033 points, a 0.94/g rate. If that 0.06 difference is the cause of an 'amazing' need to 'desperately' over credit him...well, what can you do but call those folks out for all their crazy talk.

 

[Antropovsky]

playoff are always small simple 4-5-6-7 game if youre not good enought after that, youre out.... and we talking about playoff not regular season game

in 6 game last season against tampa, nylander cost more goal by lack of defensive work ( i count 4 goal) than what he bring in 3 series at 5v5 and for you, its okay because he was producing in pp?

again tonight after a great shift where he worked hard in the offensive end and winning physical battle, couple of second he had to backcheck on a 2v1 from florida and he forfeited at leafs blue line and florida almost scored because of it. After the rest of the team see this and 2-3 will start to do the same thing.

if youre not working hard in playoff at 5v5, you will not get the puck a lot and you will defend most of the time and it will be extremely hard to produce. Thats exactly why nylander still able to produce on pp but unable to produce at 5v5 and why keefe cant keep Nylander with Matthews ...because thats forcing Matthews to work 2X and waste 2X more energy to the same thing than when he was playing with marner.

Nylander having more skill than Marner but marner play harder and with more heart than Nylander and thats why marner easily outplayed nylander at 5v5 in playoff and its not even close.

Incredibly you seem to be unaware of all the critical mistakes Marner has made in huge games over the past 4 series.

Vs Montreal he attempted to deke an opponent at their blueline, which they stole the puck from him and scored. I believe this was game 6 or 7.

Vs Montreal he cleared the puck into the stands leading to a delay of game penalty.

Vs Tampa he attempted to send a hail Mary pass to Matthews in OT which was easily pucked of and led to the game 6 gwg.

Vs Tampa game 7 I believe, he had all the time in the world to clear the puck on a PK and instead of just slapping it down, decided to flip it high in the air and out of play. Leading to delay of game penalty and a gwg against.

Another Tampa goal was Marner in his defensive zone, and because of his lack of good lower body strength, he tripped after a light stick infraction (he falls everywhere in the pp). Tampa picked up loose puck and scored.

There is no player on this team is remotely close to Marner in team crushing boneheaded plays that led to goals against. Ask numerous of my favorite posters (tongue and cheek), they got tires of me bringing up these bone headed plays and posting the video breakdowns.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Incredibly you seem to be unaware of all the critical mistakes Marner has made in huge games over the past 4 series.

We're all aware of your attempts to incorrectly and exclusively blame Marner for anything bad that has happened in his general vicinity over the past 8 years.
We just also realize what actually happened in those moments, and the overall net positive impact Marner has had.

 

[thewave]

We're all aware of your attempts to incorrectly and exclusively blame Marner for anything bad that has happened in his general vicinity over the past 8 years.
We just also realize what actually happened in those moments, and the overall net positive impact Marner has had.

I know in the moments after the mistakes are made you appear to rewrite or spin history. He has made big mistakes. Same as Brodie or Holl but not as many as Keefe and Dubas did.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I know in the moments after the mistakes are made you appear to rewrite or spin history. He has made big mistakes.

You seem to be mistaken. I'm the one correcting the rewrites. Like every player, he has made mistakes over the years. However, the posted interpretations of those moments and the extent of Marner's contributions to those goals against are incorrect and exaggerated, and focusing so exclusively on them misses the overall picture and the significant net positive that he brings.

 

[ACC1224]

We're all hopeful he gets back in tomorrow night.
We'll have a better idea after practice today I would think.