Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[al secord]

Serious flaw is an overstatement, at least IMO. Nylander's "flaw" is that he's not strong defensively, though he is better this season. Marner's just a well rounded player with no real flaws, my only complaint about him is that he seems to fade away after 86 games. Not sure what to call that, is it a flaw? Is it just one of those things? Shambles of the brain? Will it keep happening or will it never happen again? I don't know what to make of it because I've never seen anything like it but for those first 86 games every season, he's money in the bank. And hey, maybe he kills it this spring, and every spring going forward, one can hope right?

I'm in neither "camp" and I think they're close to equal value. As of today I would take Nylander because he doesn't fade away after 86 games, he just keeps on trucking and seems like he doesn't know the meaning of the word pressure. But it's not out of the question that Marner outplays him this spring in which case I'll say yup, I should have taken Marner.

It seems like it's hard to have a serious discussion about Marner any more because he has a few fans that are so sensitive and so rabid that all you have to do is interrupt their circle jerk by mentioning the word playoffs, and you get labelled a hater. And one of those people who labelled me a hater a long time ago even called me "insane" for saying I'd take Nylander over Marner in a close decision as of right now. It's unfortunate but I guess that's the way internet forums work, a small number of loudmouths make things difficult for everyone else.


This is a ridiculous lie and is exactly the kind of bullshit that has taken the place of intelligent conversation. You keep repeating this kind of nonsense, funny how you can never show examples of anyone doing this sort if thing, you just yell at these clouds that exist only in your imagination.

You might need to take a break from the Marner appreciation thread.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You might need to take a break from the Marner appreciation thread.

If that's the way you feel, maybe you're the one who needs a break.

 

[egd27]

Tough division with Florida being 1st overall and Boston tied for 2nd.

I wish to see 1-16 first round

East would feast on West

You think ?

 

[Antropovsky]

You might need to take a break from the Marner appreciation thread.

What Marner appreciation thread?

 

[leafs in five]

We will not see a cup in Toronto for those 8 years. Not at locked prices of our stars being so high.

ya but marner is important to the team or whatever

it's close but I think the Leafs should probably pay 100m for a cup instead of paying 100m for 8 years of Marner

 

[francis246]

You think ?

Yes and have you seen the Leafs record against the western conference? The leafs have figured out how to play against western conference teams and beat them. They can’t play against eastern conference teams though.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes and have you seen the Leafs record against the western conference? The leafs have figured out how to play against western conference teams and beat them. They can’t play against eastern conference teams though.

I wouldn't read too much into a couple of regular season games. Remember what happened when we played Boston in the playoffs after sweeping them during the regular season?

 

[egd27]

Yes and have you seen the Leafs record against the western conference? The leafs have figured out how to play against western conference teams and beat them. They can’t play against eastern conference teams though.

Oh ok, you meant the Leafs would fair better against Western teams. I thought you were saying that overall the Eastern teams were superior to the Western teams.

 

[67leafs]

Soooo what’s manners lower body injury? I saw him get whacked in the wrist in the Montreal game.

 

[francis246]

Soooo what’s manners lower body injury? I saw him get whacked in the wrist in the Montreal game.

he rolled his ankle in the bruins game, it's why he didn't shoot into the open net

 

[nsleaf]

You might need to take a break from the Marner appreciation thread.

Too much whiskey.

 

[Arzak]

Why do people focus on Mitch more than others if he isn't the engine of the team, especially when "others" don't perform in the big moments? It's a farcical point of view to disproportionately single out Marner, and then actually argue he isn't the engine. You can't have it both ways, but given the boorish retorts, it obviously escapes people.

I don't get the others sucked too argument.

But I can help you with the duality of your "engine" problem. You can't have it both ways, that's the issue with Mitch, at 11M you are hogging too much of the cap and you have to be the engine.

He probably takes more blame than others, but from watching our playoffs, none was a bigger disappointment. Which says a lot, considering "others".

 

[diceman934]

I don't get the others sucked too argument.

But I can help you with the duality of your "engine" problem. You can't have it both ways, that's the issue with Mitch, at 11M you are hogging too much of the cap and you have to be the engine.

He probably takes more blame than others, but from watching our playoffs, none was a bigger disappointment. Which says a lot, considering "others".

So our leading playoff performer is a bigger disappointment then his team mates. What kind of logic is this?

 

[Notsince67]

So our leading playoff performer is a bigger disappointment then his team mates. What kind of logic is this?

You've been away for awhile. Gaslighting is a real thing around here.

 

[Zybalto]

Putting aside the covid seasons, the Leaf stats in the playoffs the last 2 seasons:

Record: 11-14
Shot differential: 358-350
Special teams goal differential: 8-8

Leafs goal leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Matthews: 9
2. Tavares: 7
2. Nylander: 7
4. Marner: 5
5. O'Reilly: 3
5. Kerfoot: 3
7. Acciari: 2
7. Kampf: 2
7. Bunting: 2
10. Jarnkrok: 1

Leafs points leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Marner: 22
2. Matthews: 20
3. Nylander: 17
4. Tavares: 14
5. O'Reilly: 9
6. Bunting: 5
6. Kampf: 5
8. Kerfoot: 4
9. Jarnkrok: 3
10. Acciari: 2

Leaf forwards even strength goal differentials ( min 100 min played):

1. Marner: 20-12
2. Jarnkrok: 5-4
3. Matthews: 17-14
4. Kampf: 9-8
5. Kerfoot: 10-9
6. Tavares: 13-14
7. Bunting: 6-7
8. Nylander: 14-17
9. O'Reilly: 8-11
10. Acciari: 2-5


These are strictly outcomes and nothing advanced here.

 

[Antropovsky]

Putting aside the covid seasons, the Leaf stats in the playoffs the last 2 seasons:

Record: 11-14
Shot differential: 358-350
Special teams goal differential: 8-8

Leafs goal leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Matthews: 9
2. Tavares: 7
2. Nylander: 7
4. Marner: 5
5. O'Reilly: 3
5. Kerfoot: 3
7. Acciari: 2
7. Kampf: 2
7. Bunting: 2
10. Jarnkrok: 1

Leafs points leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Marner: 22
2. Matthews: 20
3. Nylander: 17
4. Tavares: 14
5. O'Reilly: 9
6. Bunting: 5
6. Kampf: 5
8. Kerfoot: 4
9. Jarnkrok: 3
10. Acciari: 2

Leaf forwards even strength goal differentials ( min 100 min played):

1. Marner: 20-12
2. Jarnkrok: 5-4
3. Matthews: 17-14
4. Kampf: 9-8
5. Kerfoot: 10-9
6. Tavares: 13-14
7. Bunting: 6-7
8. Nylander: 14-17
9. O'Reilly: 8-11
10. Acciari: 2-5


These are strictly outcomes and nothing advanced here.

Why does Covid playoff games not matter? Did the NHL send nobody the memo but you that they didn't count? Thought I saw a Stanley Cup winner for those seasons.

 

[authentic]

I couldn't imagine Mats playing pickup sticks during a playoff scrum against Tampa. Nor would Stammer ever try that shit with Sundin's collar.

That’s only because he wouldn’t attack a fellow blondie

 

[DarkKnight]

Any updates on his injury? Is he skating, wonder if he slots back in Saturday?

 

[hamzarocks]

Putting aside the covid seasons, the Leaf stats in the playoffs the last 2 seasons:

Record: 11-14
Shot differential: 358-350
Special teams goal differential: 8-8

Leafs goal leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Matthews: 9
2. Tavares: 7
2. Nylander: 7
4. Marner: 5
5. O'Reilly: 3
5. Kerfoot: 3
7. Acciari: 2
7. Kampf: 2
7. Bunting: 2
10. Jarnkrok: 1

Leafs points leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Marner: 22
2. Matthews: 20
3. Nylander: 17
4. Tavares: 14
5. O'Reilly: 9
6. Bunting: 5
6. Kampf: 5
8. Kerfoot: 4
9. Jarnkrok: 3
10. Acciari: 2

Leaf forwards even strength goal differentials ( min 100 min played):

1. Marner: 20-12
2. Jarnkrok: 5-4
3. Matthews: 17-14
4. Kampf: 9-8
5. Kerfoot: 10-9
6. Tavares: 13-14
7. Bunting: 6-7
8. Nylander: 14-17
9. O'Reilly: 8-11
10. Acciari: 2-5


These are strictly outcomes and nothing advanced here.

Aren't there only 18 games last 2 playoffs?

7 Tampa 1, 6 Tampa 2, 5 Flordoa?

Or did you include Habs series here as well? B/c i thought 2020 and 2021 would be considered COVID yeara

If above includes habs, Nylander gets done dirty because he was on the ice for I think 2 or 3 goals which he was at no fault

- Game 1 - 1-0 goal by anderson, nylander is in position as winger, I think Kerfoot turns it over and they get breakway and score
- Galchenyuk turnover Game 5 - Nylander is down by boards, galchenyuk has to make a simple pass down low instead tries going cross ice and thet score
- Think there was 1 or 2 more of those type of plays

His impact was a lot bigger than it looked. 8 in 7 that year with pile of trash in kerfoot + galchenyuk/whoever played before galchenyuk came in

He was on ice for goals caused by his linemates lack of awareness and smarts

 

[Antropovsky]

Putting aside the covid seasons, the Leaf stats in the playoffs the last 2 seasons:

Record: 11-14
Shot differential: 358-350
Special teams goal differential: 8-8

Leafs goal leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Matthews: 9
2. Tavares: 7
2. Nylander: 7
4. Marner: 5
5. O'Reilly: 3
5. Kerfoot: 3
7. Acciari: 2
7. Kampf: 2
7. Bunting: 2
10. Jarnkrok: 1

Leafs points leaders (min 150 min played):

1. Marner: 22
2. Matthews: 20
3. Nylander: 17
4. Tavares: 14
5. O'Reilly: 9
6. Bunting: 5
6. Kampf: 5
8. Kerfoot: 4
9. Jarnkrok: 3
10. Acciari: 2

Leaf forwards even strength goal differentials ( min 100 min played):

1. Marner: 20-12
2. Jarnkrok: 5-4
3. Matthews: 17-14
4. Kampf: 9-8
5. Kerfoot: 10-9
6. Tavares: 13-14
7. Bunting: 6-7
8. Nylander: 14-17
9. O'Reilly: 8-11
10. Acciari: 2-5


These are strictly outcomes and nothing advanced here.

Hyman has as many even strength points as Marner over the past 2 seasons. Same with Carter Verghaege. Does this mean Hyman as valuable a player as Marner? Nugent Hopkins outscored Marner last season, would you disagree if Edmonton fans proclaimed Hopkins was the better player? I've already used this comparison and Marner fans have said they aren't comparable.

So why are we seeing stats from a scoresheet without context to argue that he is valuable?

The point totals you cited... what was the score in the games? How were they produced?

Do you think a lateral pass on the blueline on the PP is comparable to an off the rush even strength goal where a goal is scored from the slot? Or a pass is made from the slot and a goal is created?

Every goal scored from the playoffs is in a highlight package online and you'll note that Marners points are generally from stationary and certainly he wasnt the "play driver". Two of the points he got, he actually gave the puck away while skating with the puck, in the neutral zone but his teammates stole the puck back and created the play leading to Marners point. Most of Marners goals are slap shots from the oppositions bluelines, which generally are considered low percentage shots. If you were a gm, and had a choice between two players, would you make a decision based just on point totals on paper?

 

[Arzak]

Hyman has as many even strength points as Marner over the past 2 seasons. Same with Carter Verghaege. Does this mean Hyman as valuable a player as Marner? Nugent Hopkins outscored Marner last season, would you disagree if Edmonton fans proclaimed Hopkins was the better player? I've already used this comparison and Marner fans have said they aren't comparable.

So why are we seeing stats from a scoresheet without context to argue that he is valuable?

The point totals you cited... what was the score in the games? How were they produced?

Do you think a lateral pass on the blueline on the PP is comparable to an off the rush even strength goal where a goal is scored from the slot? Or a pass is made from the slot and a goal is created?

Every goal scored from the playoffs is in a highlight package online and you'll note that Marners points are generally from stationary and certainly he wasnt the "play driver". Two of the points he got, he actually gave the puck away while skating with the puck, in the neutral zone but his teammates stole the puck back and created the play leading to Marners point. Most of Marners goals are slap shots from the oppositions bluelines, which generally are considered low percentage shots. If you were a gm, and had a choice between two players, would you make a decision based just on point totals on paper?

Yes, if you're Leafs GM. Plus you ignore that he plays with Matthews, because Matthews is benefiting from Marner. Somehow it translates to Marner's stat not being inflated by Matthews, at all ! It was explained to me on a couple of occasions.

Hyman, Kapanen, AJ,Kadri, no JT. Couple of ELC stars. Butload of picks.

Imagine not signing JT and keeping picks for the first 5 years...

 

[tmlfan98]

 

[Gary Nylund]

Aren't there only 18 games last 2 playoffs?

7 Tampa 1, 6 Tampa 2, 5 Flordoa?

Or did you include Habs series here as well? B/c i thought 2020 and 2021 would be considered COVID yeara

If above includes habs, Nylander gets done dirty because he was on the ice for I think 2 or 3 goals which he was at no fault

- Game 1 - 1-0 goal by anderson, nylander is in position as winger, I think Kerfoot turns it over and they get breakway and score
- Galchenyuk turnover Game 5 - Nylander is down by boards, galchenyuk has to make a simple pass down low instead tries going cross ice and thet score
- Think there was 1 or 2 more of those type of plays

His impact was a lot bigger than it looked. 8 in 7 that year with pile of trash in kerfoot + galchenyuk/whoever played before galchenyuk came in

He was on ice for goals caused by his linemates lack of awareness and smarts

Yeah all good points here, especially pointing out that +- isn't very meaningful here. That's the thing about numbers and Marner's a perfect example - if you want to make him look good using numbers you can do it pretty easily and if you want to make him look not so good using number, that's not hard either.

Yes, if you're Leafs GM. Plus you ignore that he plays with Matthews, because Matthews is benefiting from Marner. Somehow it translates to Marner's stat not being inflated by Matthews, at all ! It was explained to me on a couple of occasions.

Hyman, Kapanen, AJ,Kadri, no JT. Couple of ELC stars. Butload of picks.

Imagine not signing JT and keeping picks for the first 5 years...

Sigh, don't remind me. I was happy when JT chose us, so were like 99% of the people posting here, I would have never in a million years thought that we'd be sitting here all these years later with just one series win to our credit. So sad.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Sigh. Well hopefully he gets well soon. He’s too important to the team. What a stupid way to get injured.

Unless this team really starts going down the toilet I’d keep him out until just before the playoffs. I don’t care how “mild” it is it took Liljegren more than a month to get back, and Woll over two months.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dang.