Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[666]

Lol Fenwick doesn't matter? I just selected two stats. All Marners stats are generally worse compared to Matthews when they are apart.

why do sites bother tracking corsi and fenwick then?

I was told the sample size of the stats I previously posted was too small, well this ewmple size is over 700 mins. Whereas mins together was 1200.


The fact that Marners number drop quite substantially across the board once removed from Matthews but Matthews remains similar or stronger is an indication that Marner is much more dependant on Matthews.

Because you're not providing context!! Dekes has explained this to you and I have as well. I'll repeat myself one last time so that you get it. For example, who does Marner play with when he's not with Matthews and vice-versa. Someone suggested that Matthews plays with Nylander a lot and Marner plays with the weaker Tavares. You must show that this is not true and that Marner plays with equal quality teammates including defensemen. More importantly, you must show that Matthews and Marner play AGAINST similar opposition in similar circumstances when they are apart. It's possible that Matthews plays with weaker teammates against stronger opposition when they are apart but you MUST show this. And lastly Matthews is one of the best players in the world at xGF as he's the best goal scorer. Everyone will do worse when not playing with him. You must show that Marner does worse than other players and that it actually helps Matthews to be apart from Marner while of course considering all the above. There are many others but spewing one stat without any context is truly meaningless.

This is the last time I'm going to take the five minutes to type all this out with you. I went through all this with Zeke and his nonsense. When producing stats like this you must provide ALL or at least a lot of the context and PROVE your point. You are providing zero context. It's not our job to dispute your nonsense. You must make a convincing argument on your own. Stop mis-using advanced stats if you don't know how to use them.

And one final point. You're one of the very few haters that suggest that Marner is bad even during the REGULAR SEASON. This is an EXTREME position that implies some sort of visceral hatred or delusion. Do you understand the game? Do you actually watch the games? I would suggest that you stop watching the puck. It might help as Marner has an ability to anticipate the play that is hard to understand if you're not aware of what's happening away from the puck.

 

[Antropovsky]

Because you're not providing context!! Dekes has explained this to you and I have as well. I'll repeat myself one last time so that you get it. For example, who does Marner play with when he's not with Matthews and vice-versa. Someone suggested that Matthews plays with Nylander a lot and Marner plays with the weaker Tavares. You must show that this is not true and that Marner plays with equal quality teammates including defensemen. More importantly, you must show that Matthews and Marner play AGAINST similar opposition in similar circumstances when they are apart. It's possible that Matthews plays with weaker teammates against stronger opposition when they are apart but you MUST show this. And lastly Matthews is one of the best players in the world at xGF as he's the best goal scorer. Everyone will do worse when not playing with him. You must show that Marner does worse than other players and that it actually helps Matthews to be apart from Marner while of course considering all the above. There are many others but spewing one stat without any context is truly meaningless.

This is the last time I'm going to take the five minutes to type all this out with you. I went through all this with Zeke and his nonsense. When producing stats like this you must provide ALL or at least a lot of the context and PROVE your point. You are providing zero context. It's not our job to dispute your nonsense. You must make a convincing argument on your own. Stop mis-using advanced stats if you don't know how to use them.

And one final point. You're one of the very few haters that suggest that Marner is bad even during the REGULAR SEASON. This is an EXTREME position that implies some sort of visceral hatred or delusion. Do you understand the game? Do you actually watch the games? I would suggest that you stop watching the puck. It might help as Marner has an ability to anticipate the play that is hard to understand if you're not aware of what's happening away from the puck.

Interesting concept, the Marner fan boys were saying Marner was better than Matthews in 2019... I pointed out that Marners Linate were 27 year old Tavares and Hyman, while Matthews primarily was with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau. Yet he still paced 88 points to Marners 94.

I was met with Lols by the Marner fan club.

So who had the more impressive 2019 season?

Matthews pacing 88 points with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau...

Or Marner playing with 27 year old Tavares and Hyman?

Don't contradict yourselves now.

 

[666]

Interesting concept, the Marner fan boys were saying Marner was better than Matthews in 2019... I pointed out that Marners Linate were 27 year old Tavares and Hyman, while Matthews primarily was with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau. Yet he still paced 88 points to Marners 94.

I was met with Lols by the Marner fan club.

So who had the more impressive 2019 season?

Matthews pacing 88 points with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau...

Or Marner playing with 27 year old Tavares and Hyman?

Don't contradict yourselves now.

Once again, throwing out a couple of numbers and making grandiose statements is meaningless. I'm not here to discuss your opinions as your hatred of Marner is clear. I'm here to point out that you are misusing stats.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lol Fenwick doesn't matter?

It's more that advanced statistics have gone beyond them, and it hasn't really been all that relevant for about a decade.

why do sites bother tracking corsi and fenwick then?

Why not? It's just extra information that's easily pulled from their data sets. Most people know not to use them like you have.

I was told the sample size of the stats I previously posted was too small

You were told that it was misleading primarily because their deployment and the type of minutes they have away from each other are quite different.
And you were choosing to sidestep what was actually driving it down (even when it was pointed out to you), to make broad claims about Marner.

The fact that Marners number drop quite substantially across the board once removed from Matthews but Matthews remains similar or stronger is an indication that Marner is much more dependant on Matthews.

You haven't shown anything that indicates that that Marner is more dependant on Matthews. You've merely shown how to use with and without stats improperly.
But also, who cares who is more dependent on who? We have both of them. They are both amazing, they compliment each other really well, and they create magic together.

 

[notdoneyet]

Give credit to where credit is due .. Mitch made some moves with his league leading edge work behind net for OT winner that was magnificent and only2/3 players in league can make .. folks between Sammy's 10-beller and Mitch's play that decided game .. no Matty attempt with that magic .. give credit to where it is due .. yes shot was very good but Mitch's edge work/pass to allude 2 Sabres was even better

When Mitch feeds matthews a pass it’s always in the wheel house. Matthews doesn’t have to pick it out between his legs it’s perfect,
Watch the play matthews circles around and goes to the net. Mitch passes the puck between Two defenders sticks and right on the tape as matthews is skating to the net
Not many players in the league can make that play

 

[DarkKnight]

When Mitch feeds matthews a pass it’s always in the wheel house. Matthews doesn’t have to pick it out between his legs it’s perfect,
Watch the play matthews circles around and goes to the net. Mitch passes the puck between Two defenders sticks and right on the tape as matthews is skating to the net
Not many players in the league can make that play

We take for granted his sweet, bullseye passes. He makes it look easy, and then watch other players hardly ever do it. On a tee, best passer in the game imo.

 

[saffronleaf]

marner showing how great he is against the bruins

 

[Gary Nylund]

We take for granted his sweet, bullseye passes. He makes it look easy, and then watch other players hardly ever do it. On a tee, best passer in the game imo.

And don't forget, smartest player in hockey history and he's an all-star to boot. Pasta be damned, objectively speaking, I don't see how Boston stands a chance against us in the playoffs as long as the best passer in the game is on our side.

 

[ashs]

Open net and he takes a lap. These guys need their egos checked.

 

[Stephen]

He was the only guy who even managed to score vs Boston and it was a beauty. Ugly open net non play but he wasn’t a clown show like Nylander. A no show like Matthews and a shit show like Tavares.

 

[Antropovsky]

We take for granted his sweet, bullseye passes. He makes it look easy, and then watch other players hardly ever do it. On a tee, best passer in the game imo.

5 vs 5 Michael Bunting averaged about the same primary assists per minute with Matthews as Marner.

 

[Aashir]

Best of the big 3 but still not good enough. Very perimeter and decided to not shoot into the empty net

 

[HellasLEAF]

Open net and he takes a lap. These guys need their egos checked.

Not excusing it but if you watch the play looked like a slight bobble of the puck. It was slightly inside and he has to coral it to shoot. When he settled it the goalie had partially recovered and the angle was lessened. He still should have probably found a way to fire it on net but honestly I think it would have gotten saved and he knows it. He then tried the wrap play to create something but the Bruins defence don't allow any slot player an easy goal there and so the play fizzled.

 

[Racer88]

And don't forget, smartest player in hockey history and he's an all-star to boot. Pasta be damned, objectively speaking, I don't see how Boston stands a chance against us in the playoffs as long as the best passer in the game is on our side.

The crazy wide open net episode aside I will give Marner props for being the best of the useless core last night

 

[Avilaj07]

It's unfortunate but this off season you have to look at moving Marner. Either you move him or you let him walk. This team needs a complete overhaul and Marner is a big problem with the culture of this team.

 

[Atomos2]

marner showing how great he is against the bruins

So great that he doesn't even want to score on an empty net.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

He’s a joke just like the rest of the trash four.

Why his stupid brain decided not to shoot into a WIDE OPEN net is baffling

 

[GoonieFace]

The crazy wide open net episode aside I will give Marner props for being the best of the useless core last night

Other than that breakaway he was completely invisible. Nylander looked engaged early than that giveaway seemed to deflate him. Matthews hasn’t shown up in 3 games. Such a hard group of guys to like sometimes

 

[ACC1224]

Best of the bunch but he could have used some help last night for sure.

 

[TonsofPuppies]

He’s a joke just like the rest of the trash four.

Why his stupid brain decided not to shoot into a WIDE OPEN net is baffling

Shambles in his brain.

 

[leafs in five]

imagine f***ing up a chance off a hard cross-ice pass, pastrnak would never

 

[ACC1224]

imagine f***ing up a chance off a hard cross-ice pass, pastrnak would never

Yeah it's a tougher play for a right handed shot. Have to see it again but I'm guessing the puck bobbled a bit.
Too bad, another goal there would have changed the game.

 

[thusk]

The crazy wide open net episode aside I will give Marner props for being the best of the useless core last night

matthews and marner had been team leader xGF/XGA both game vs boston this week and was the 2 only player who had a positive +/- in that category amount foward on both game.

marner at +0.48
matthews + 0.51

 

[Smif]

Interesting concept, the Marner fan boys were saying Marner was better than Matthews in 2019... I pointed out that Marners Linate were 27 year old Tavares and Hyman, while Matthews primarily was with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau. Yet he still paced 88 points to Marners 94.

I was met with Lols by the Marner fan club.

So who had the more impressive 2019 season?

Matthews pacing 88 points with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau...

Or Marner playing with 27 year old Tavares and Hyman?

Don't contradict yourselves now.

When someone gets 94 points compared to 73 I really don't think it's smart to ask who had the better season...pace be damned. Even their own teammates voted Marner as the MVP that year.

 

[daveleaf]

That we traded for Bushy shows that we're staying the course so IMO expect Marner to be resigned for billions and brace yourself for another decade of irrelevance.

If it was me, I'd do a massive reset. Trade all our expiring deals if I can, keep Matthews, Nylander, Rielly and our youth/prospects, tell Marner that he either takes the exact same deal as Willy and when he says no to that, convince him to waive his NMC because he won't be here past next year. Restock the prospect pool and rebuild the D with an eye to rising once again when the JT deal is up.

Vegas didn't have a single player over PPG last season and they won the cup. It should be obvious to anyone by now that while it's great to have high end talent, a top heavy cap structure isn't exactly ideal, especially when all that cap is allocated to forwards.

I do believe they need a reset. I just feel that Mariner is willing to play defence and Willy consistently has not put in the effort. He has too many bone headed plays and starts to float. An amazing talent Willy is but he gives up way too many chances on the d side. He was directly responsible for two goals last night. I'd as him to waive this summer and see if you can get young dmen and some pics. Marriner and Mathews is a good pair, they really need another and Bertuzzi is starting to play better, I would resign Tyler. A lot of holes on this team.