Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Gary Nylund]

My comment was responding to the concept of what you stated, not your actions specifically. My apologies, I could have made that clearer. I’ve literally never ignored a single person on this site, I don’t let things that I read here affect my mood or life beyond this board even the tiniest bit.

Anyway, I have no issue with negative comments (I have and will continue to make them myself where I feel justified to), nor do I want an echo chamber, so swing and a miss on both counts. All I’m saying is it can be a lot when it’s constant (which it is for some), and there is literally nothing the team can do right now to change these things.

I'm not sure what "the concept" is or was so not sure what to say.

There's nothing anyone can do ever to change anything by posting here, we're just talking is all. And FYI, much of the time I mention Marner's playoff failures, it's when he has a good game in November/February/whenever and his fanboys flock to this thread and start posting the same "super crazy elite" garbage. Yes Marner is a great regular season player, it's tiresome hearing from the cheerleaders every time he has a good game but it's their right to be "Pauls" if that's what turns them on. And when I get tired of their circle jerk, it's also my right to say who cares, get back to me when he does something awesome in the playoffs. And BTW when he scored a big goal against TB last playoffs, I was here singing his praises and if he kills it this spring, I'll be the first one to praise him for it.

He’s the best big game player ever, but he was criticized early on when he put up big regular seasons while the Oilers went no where.

Yeah I really don't think so. Memory's a funny thing, I think yours is on tilt re. this particular tidbit.

36 points in 17 games. 21 points in 9 games his 2nd NHL playoffs.

Exactly. If people were criticizing Gretzky for not being clutch, I must have missed and considering I was in the habit of reading every Toronto newspaper from front to back every daily, I really doubt that happened.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's not the facts that are the problem. It's the constant, repeated, over and over and over whining about the playoffs in the Marner thread. We get it. Stop whining. We ALL get it.

From my POV the "problem" is the constant, repeated, over and over cheerleading every time Marner has a good game. Yes he's a good player and he has a lot of good games. We get it. We ALL get it.

Unlike people like you though, I don't whine about it because I'm an adult and I try to behave like one most of the time. People can post what they like as long as it's within forum rules, this is not an echo chamber. There are a small number of people who's posts I don't want to see so I have them on ignore rather than whine about them constantly, I suggest you try doing the same because I gotta tell ya, your whining is boring as heck and is not a good look.

Marner's edgework and circling the perimeter looked so elite in the Colorado game. That's the version you need, that's the pace he has to go in the playoffs.

We need everyone at their best, not just Marner. This team is such a mystery. I mean we know that they can play really well when they're on, so how is it possible for them to be so off so often in the playoffs? That Florida series was just so bad.

Which team shows up for the playoffs this time around? I sure hope it's the group that's been playing since Rielly got suspended, those guys would be tough to beat!

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

This guy brings us to our feet and we wanna trade him? Man, I wish he buried that chance he created when he undressed the entire Avs team.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Except this is the Marner thread. This is where we are supposed to discuss his daily accomplishments but every time we come in here we end up dealing with you and the rest of the haters producing ridiculous stats, diminishing every point he gets and the CONSTANTLY whining about the playoffs. Why don't you guys create a let's whine about Marner thread or better yet a discord server where you can all whine in unison in real-time.

Maybe we can get a “Marner specifically in playoff games 5,6,7” thread

Would clean this one up nicely.

 

[ToneDog]

This guy brings us to our feet and we wanna trade him? Man, I wish he buried that chance he created when he undressed the entire Avs team.

The only reason why fans would want to trade him is because they have all but proven that they cannot win a SC making the coin they are making. Management clearly does not agree with the fans so Marner will force them to pay him $12.5mx8. I mean they just paid a guy coming off a career high 87 points, $11.5mx8. Mitch's camp will argue that Mitch has better career numbers and justifiably so.

 

[GoonieFace]

Marner is playing great right now. But it’s creepy that a bunch of what I would assume are adults are so enthralled with a 27 year old hockey player. Every play is spun into an elite play that only he can make. Then, if someone says the contrary, certain people get personally offended and act like children and want to take their toys home.

 

[thewave]

It seems like you're having trouble understanding what you're reading. Which part of "Of course it's not all his fault " are you having trouble with?

He deserves some blame, so do a number of others.

Precisely.

Marner has not brought it in elimination games.

Nylander has performed about what has been expected.

Matthews I would say gets extra attention paid to him and does what he can.

If I remember correctly JT does an ok job this year may be dicey

The depth of the team is generally a non factor in elimination situations.

An obscene amount of criticism is cast on Keefe over the past years in elimination games

We lose the series and the same arguments are raised. Overpays, Keefe, Depth and we do the same thing next year while not advancing towards the goal of winning.

 

[666]

Maybe we can get a “Marner specifically in playoff games 5,6,7” thread

Would clean this one up nicely.

I tried man. I'm pretty sure you're the guy that found my thread. I even moderated one post until it disappeared. I really miss that thread.

 

[thewave]

Marner's edgework and circling the perimeter looked so elite in the Colorado game. That's the version you need, that's the pace he has to go in the playoffs.

There were some clinics on display for sure. He looks lighter on his feet, probably lost some weight because he looked out of shape or heavy to start the season.

 

[Gabriel426]

That curl back was key to the play and a very high IQ, high skill play.

If you watch the replay, Knies is no where to be seen pre-curl and Marner reads that the Avs are cheating towards Matthews.

The curl back opened up the shooting lane while also buying him a screen and tip option

You can’t quote me just this part without the following part where I literally said, he probably saw stuff that we didn’t see.

 

[Notsince67]

I didn't read it that way.

I read it, if your linemates scores 70 goals, what are the odds you'd only have 50 points?

As in someone is going to get assists on those goals, and most often you would expect it would be their linemate, although I suppose if half those goals were PP goals, and the linemates wasn't on the PP maybe the players can't get to 50 points?

player x - player y - player z

Player y - 70 goals
Player z - 35 assists ... + 15 goals = 50 points
Player x - Bertuzzi the first half of the season ... ;-)

Evaluating an argument...whether its premises are true and whether their truth necessarily results in a true conclusion is where a sane debate begins.
Circular reasoning beginning with the premise that Matthews is a 70 goal scorer and ends with assessing how many assists he is giving people the opportunity to have is a false premise. Should I accept the premise, I could conclude that since Matthews was a only a 40 goal scorer last year, Marner was prevented at achieving 23 more assists, giving him 122 points for the year. If I threw that one out, there wouldn't be a shortage of people calling me a fan boy...and rightfully so. So the premise is flawed in an attempt to frame a conclusion that by all appearances are framed by the opposite of a fan boy. A hater.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner's edgework and circling the perimeter looked so elite in the Colorado game. That's the version you need, that's the pace he has to go in the playoffs.

It looked like he has some bruising around the jaw. Maybe he just needs a slap from time to time.

 

[Gabriel426]

Thought I'd try to isolate his 5v5 numbers in those games the last 3 playoffs. It's a bit of work but Ill try.

I can expand if you want:

Versus the Habs:

Game 5:
xGF%: 62.11 (1st among forwards on the team)
Goals for/against: 1-0

Game 6:
xGF%: 70.03 (3rd among forwards on the team)
Goals for/against: 0-0

Game 7:
xGF%: 58.10 (5th among forwards on the team)
Goals for/against: 0-1 (The infamous floater through Campbells legs to break the teams back)

Overall average:
xGF%: 63.41
Goal differential: 50.00



Versus the Bolts (2022)

Game 5:
xGF%: 45.40 (Below Average)
Goals for/against: 0-1

Game 6:
xGF%: 67.84 (1st among forwards on the team)
Goals for/against: 1-1

Game 7:
xGF%: 80.75 (1st among forwards on the team)
Goals for/against: 1-1

Overall average:
xGF%: 64.66
Goal differential: 40.00


Versus the Bolts (2023)

Game 5:
xGF%: 55.03 (5th among forwards on the team)
Goals for/against: 1-0

Game 6:
xGF%: 66.17 (1st among forwards on the team)
Goals for/against: 2-0

Overall average:
xGF%: 60.06
Goal differential: 100.00


Versus the Cats:

Game 5:
xGF%: 51.97 (Middle of the pack)
Goals for/against: 0-0



Average across all series in games 5,6,7:

xGF%: 61.93
Goal differential: 60.00%

Marner's total average over the last 3 playoffs:
xGF%: 59.38
Goal differential: 66.67%


Well, the numbers say he's been really good 5v5 in games 5,6,7, one of the best players on either team on average.

Maybe it’s his work away from 5v5 that makes him this big disaster everyone is talking about?

You are smarter and better than this, don’t just use stats to prove your point without considering context. When people talk about Game 5-6-7, they mean elimination games and not literally Game 5-7.
MM flipped the puck on the PK, got a penalty and the other team end up scoring 5 on 3 in one of those games. Blame the goalie for bad stats in another game even though it was justified on that goal scored. He was a complete no show in Game 3 against the Cats, even though that wasn’t an elimination game but it felt like it bc Leafs was down 2-0 in the series.
Like I said many times, MM was not the only player who struggled on the Leafs but he did struggled in those games like the rest of the Leafs except for Reilly.
Also, we(Leafsnation) talk about accountability all the time. That applies to all players even the top guys. So if the top guys were pulling their weights, criticism will be there.
I am not saying guys need to go SuperNova but if our guys over the past playoffs just collectively played 5-8% better, we might had already won a Cup or two. Bc that 5-8% better is really the difference between winning and losing games and series.

It looked like he has some bruising around the jaw. Maybe he just needs a slap from time to time.

Didn’t he had one of his best games with a mask on a while back.

 

[DarkKnight]

You can say whatever you want, we all have opinions, which is why I find it so easy to dismiss psychological defects wrapped around supposed hockey arguments. It's so obvious what most of this stuff really is, Marner is just a lightning rod.

There are a lot of guys who make legit critiques about Marner, even if I don't agree, I respect the arguments. The guys who literally have made the same playoff posts 18347 times because they can't offer anything else, you're a joke, the bottom of the barrel social media participants in my view. Everyone knows we need more in key games, from Marner, Matthews and supporting cast, that isn't an insight at this point, it's a given, so bringing it up everyday during regular season games is just so boring intellectually. But, again, there are defects which prevent this simple assumption, it must be said over and over as though informative. Literally why we have bell curves.

Marner has been an absolute treat to watch, if he can find a way to bring this game at the crucial moments, he can carry this team to the promised land. I for one will remain optimistic he can until he doesn't. Each year provides this opportunity and his play of late is encouraging. Last night for example was tight, tough, playoff style hockey, and he shone like a star.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Let me guess. You gamble regularly but you're still up, right? Just like every other one.

You said I'm a degen gambler, I told you that if you had read what I've posted on the subject, you'd know that if anything, the opposite is true. Now you want to play guessing games.

Go ahead, tell me what I posted that makes you think I'm a degen gambler. Do that, and I'll happily and politely explain where you went wrong but if you can't or won't do that, I'll ask that you stop wasting my time with unjustified personal attacks.

 

[666]

You said I'm a degen gambler, I told you that if you had read what I've posted on the subject, you'd know that if anything, the opposite is true. Now you want to play guessing games.

Go ahead, tell me what I posted that makes you think I'm a degen gambler. Do that, and I'll happily and politely explain where you went wrong but if you can't or won't do that, I'll ask that you stop wasting my time with unjustified personal attacks.

Now that's how you say that I was right without saying that I was right. To be fair dude it was pretty obvious.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Since this thread was started
GP-22 G-9 A-25 P-34 +19

Good anti-jynx thread.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You can say whatever you want, we all have opinions, which is why I find it so easy to dismiss psychological defects wrapped around supposed hockey arguments. It's so obvious what most of this stuff really is, Marner is just a lightning rod.

There are a lot of guys who make legit critiques about Marner, even if I don't agree, I respect the arguments. The guys who literally have made the sameplayoff posts 18347 times because they can't offer anything else, you're a joke, the bottom of the barrel social media participants in my view. Everyone knows we need more in key games, from Marner, Matthews and supporting cast, that isn't an insight at this point, it's a given, so bringing it up everyday during regular season games is just so boring intellectually. But, again, there are defects which prevent this simple assumption, it must be said over and over as though informative.

Marner has been an absolute treat to watch, if he can find a way to bring this game at the crucial moments, he can carry this team to the promised land. I for one will remain optimistic he can until he doesn't. Each year provides this opportunity and his play of late is encouraging. Last night for example was tight, tough, playoff style hockey, and he shone like a star.

Not true at all, there are many people here who are constantly making excuses for Marner and unable to see that he needs to do more in key games. Hard to believe that you have somehow missed all these posts, or were you just joking?

He's not going to "carry us to the promised land". People should really stop using that cliche, no one player has ever carried a team anywhere and Marner won't be the first, and neither will Matthews or anyone else. It's a team game, and we need to have everyone (or at least almost everyone) playing close to their best to go deep.

People like you who post "1st team all-star" or "super crazy elite" 18347 times (not that I've counted ) are the only joke around here. But of course, that's just IMHO.

 

[Gabriel426]

You can say whatever you want, we all have opinions, which is why I find it so easy to dismiss psychological defects wrapped around supposed hockey arguments. It's so obvious what most of this stuff really is, Marner is just a lightning rod.

There are a lot of guys who make legit critiques about Marner, even if I don't agree, I respect the arguments. The guys who literally have made the sameplayoff posts 18347 times because they can't offer anything else, you're a joke, the bottom of the barrel social media participants in my view. Everyone knows we need more in key games, from Marner, Matthews and supporting cast, that isn't an insight at this point, it's a given, so bringing it up everyday during regular season games is just so boring intellectually. But, again, there are defects which prevent this simple assumption, it must be said over and over as though informative.

Marner has been an absolute treat to watch, if he can find a way to bring this game at the crucial moments, he can carry this team to the promised land. I for one will remain optimistic he can until he doesn't. Each year provides this opportunity and his play of late is encouraging. Last night for example was tight, tough, playoff style hockey, and he shone like a star.

I think he is maturing and heading that direction.
The Panthers series aside. I know some will say he was underwhelmed against TB but I said it then and I will say it now, I thought he just picked his moments, let the game come to him and was clutch when given the opportunity.
Also I find he didn’t force and tried to do fancy stuff like past years when he was not putting up points. He really kept his game simple and let the game comes to him this season.
Lastly, I don’t understand how anyone can say he is not a part of AM’s success bc if your line mate is getting 70goals, you are doing something right even if you are not getting the points.
At the same time, MM like all players will have bad games, when he does, people should stop defending him like a cult. Just admit he had a bad game or two and move on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Now that's how you say that I was right without saying that I was right. To be fair dude it was pretty obvious.

LOLOLOLOLOL. What are you babbling about son?

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Let me guess. You gamble regularly but you're still up, right? Just like every other one.

I lost $8 last night on the game and then proceeded to win $40 during the intermission hitting 34 on roulette twice in 10 spins.

 

[666]

I lost $8 last night on the game and then proceeded to win $40 during the intermission hitting 34 on roulette twice in 10 spins.

Dude, this is the MARNER thread. I hope you bet on 16 as well.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Dude, this is the MARNER thread. I hope you bet on 16 as well.

I usually like 16/17/18/34

 

[DarkKnight]

I think he is maturing and heading that direction.
The Panthers series aside. I know some will say he was underwhelmed against TB but I said it then and I will say it now, I thought he just picked his moments, let the game come to him and was clutch when given the opportunity.
Also I find he didn’t force and tried to do fancy stuff like past years when he was not putting up points. He really kept his game simple and let the game comes to him this season.
Lastly, I don’t understand how anyone can say he is not a part of AM’s success bc if your line mate is getting 70goals, you are doing something right even if you are not getting the points.

The Panther series the collective wasn't ready, for whatever reason we came out flat as a board and it was really over pretty quick. Matthews for me was even more disappointing than series, yet that isn't a regular topic like this thread. That aside, Marner was bad that series, but as you said the TB series he was effective , and he was their entire shutdown focus.

He is maturing, that's why I'm still optimistic. Like Matthews this year, seeing some mental evolution, which makes this regular season somewhat instructive. Nylander too for that matter. Look at Reilly, it finally clicked last playoffs, and let's see review his age.

For me, any poster here who argues Marner is riding Matthews coat tails, that's a tell, they're truly irrelevant to an intellectual discussion, they're just biased haters who offer nothing or anything. Coaches, players, analysts, they get it, what does it really matter if a nobody doesn't? Marner and Matthews are a symbiotic relationship, imagine the absurdity of arguing Oates was nothing more than Hull.

Again, criticize all you want, just don't expect me to respect ZERO GAME garbage.

 

[666]

LOLOLOLOLOL. What are you babbling about son?

Look man, if someone guessed that I was a degen gambler I most certainly wouldn't say something like "go through my posting history and show me what I've posted over the last 11 years that makes you believe that I'm a degen gambler". I'd probably not even respond because it just doesn't deserve a response. Now, if someone called me an alcoholic, I'd respond with "define alcoholic"