Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Stephen]

Nothing but coveted cap space. Unless he agrees to be traded of course.

If you can get a Draisaitl or Rantanen as UFA with that cap space, you could make a case for letting Marner walk. But the ASG dynamics tells me MLSE would be happy to roll with the star power and big names and probably would not be moving off a marketable star to fix defensive, depth and other issues.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If you can get a Draisaitl or Rantanen as UFA with that cap space, you could make a case for letting Marner walk. But the ASG dynamics tells me MLSE would be happy to roll with the star power and big names and probably would not be moving off a marketable star to fix defensive, depth and other issues.

That is one possibility. No doubt about that.

 

[Antropovsky]

They scored. What's the problem?

See my post above.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They lost because he scored?
I don’t think you guys understand the game very well.

If that's what you think he said, then I don't think you understand the English language very well.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Not sure what all the Marner is more physical this year talk is. I’ve never seen someone so afraid of contact.

He's not even the worst one on his own team as long as Nylander is there.. c'mon.

And this is a team that used to feature Phil Kessel and Patrick Marleau so...

 

[Racer88]

They lost because he scored?
I don’t think you guys understand the game very well.

 

[nuck]

If you can get a Draisaitl or Rantanen as UFA with that cap space, you could make a case for letting Marner walk. But the ASG dynamics tells me MLSE would be happy to roll with the star power and big names and probably would not be moving off a marketable star to fix defensive, depth and other issues.

It is interesting because after one more failed playoff you would think someone would notice this model doesn't work. Do they need star power and marketability to fill the arena? I don't think so.

They can't afford Drai and Ranta has no incentive to become a Leaf. If Mitch remains it is because a hockey mind thinks they can build a winner. If they have a strong playoff I believe he is back at whatever salary he wants. If they don't then you would thing the Prez is gone and its a new and unpredictable world.

 

[Stephen]

It is interesting because after one more failed playoff you would think someone would notice this model doesn't work. Do they need star power and marketability to fill the arena? I don't think so.

They can't afford Drai and Ranta has no incentive to become a Leaf. If Mitch remains it is because a hockey mind thinks they can build a winner. If they have a strong playoff I believe he is back at whatever salary he wants. If they don't then you would thing the Prez is gone and its a new and unpredictable world.

To play the devil's advocate I don't it's proven Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Rielly can't work in the playoffs... and there's no cut off date while they're all here... If Kadri, Kessel, Bozak can all go somewhere and be a big part of the solution on a cup winner, these guys still have a chance every year. My sense is the organization will hold onto these guys, they seem to like being together. And the key to winning will be the random support cast they put together and change up year after year. Not satisfying if we're looking for big changes and give a guy a boot, but their one year deals on the support cast tells me they'll just try again with another crop of UFA's next summer.

 

[authentic]

Not the player he has been for the past 7 years.

Significantly worse at creating plays, handling and receiving the puck, and his top speed is noticeably lower. Something is very very off with him this season.

Could be playing through something like Matthews was last season

 

[Racer88]

Could be playing through something like Matthews was last season

I think he is saving himself for next year so he can rock it out of the park and get that next big overpayment just like Willy did.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He's not even the worst one on his own team as long as Nylander is there.. c'mon.

And this is a team that used to feature Phil Kessel and Patrick Marleau so...

That's a fallacy, and certainly not based on evidence.

He is not a 'hitter'. True, but that doesn't mean he shies away from being hit.

He has been hit 43 times this season - one behind Tavares and more than Matthews (40) and Marner (33).

(According to Natural Stat Trick.)

 

[ZEBROA]

That's a fallacy, and certainly not based on evidence.

He is not a 'hitter'. True, but that doesn't mean he shies away from being hit.

He has been hit 43 times this season - one behind Tavares and more than Matthews (40) and Marner (33).

(According to Natural Stat Trick.)

Yeah whyy should he strive to get hit? He probably get hit more because he need to follow Tavares pace. Nylander must be one of the players fans read wrong the most.He need to hit or he play wrong - i prefer him strip the player of the puck than hit . He need to go straight to the goal or he play wrong - many times it is better to draw players to you and find the third man entering the zone. He need to take hits or he play wrong - The other team try to hit you to make you tierd and slow you down, why should you not try to avoid that? .

This goes for Marner too .

 

[BraveCanadian]

That's a fallacy, and certainly not based on evidence.

He is not a 'hitter'. True, but that doesn't mean he shies away from being hit.

He has been hit 43 times this season - one behind Tavares and more than Matthews (40) and Marner (33).

(According to Natural Stat Trick.)

The things they call hits these days are a a joke.. Nylander pulls the chute long before he could be hit 43 times.

Not to mention getting hit is a dumb way to try and assess it anyways.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If the team for 3 of the 8 highest players in the league. Think it is fair for fans to have high expectations instead of just being a middle of the pack team.

The question people need to ask themselves is.. why? Why should our expectations be higher than any other team spending to the cap?
It's not wrong, but the only way to argue that superstars give us an advantage in a cap league would be to acknowledge that superstars are inherently cap efficient.
But then that directly contradicts the argument that we should trade them away.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The things they call hits these days are a a joke.. Nylander pulls the chute long before he could be hit 43 times.

Not to mention getting hit is a dumb way to try and assess it anyways.

So they deliberately pretend that a lot of 'hits' that aren't really hits are called hits, but only for Willy, so he can have more than Mitch? Makes sense.

And can you explain why the number of times you get hit is bad indication of whether or not you avoid getting hit?

 

[BraveCanadian]

So they deliberately pretend that a lot of 'hits' that aren't really hits are called hits, but only for Willy, so he can have more than Mitch? Makes sense.

And can you explain why the number of times you get hit is bad indication of whether or not you avoid getting hit?

Nice straw man, but no I don’t think it is a good indicator at all for anything because the stat is garbage.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nice straw man, but no I don’t think it is a good indicator at all for anything because the stat is garbage.

"Straw man"? Whether you think the stat is applied too easily or not, why would you think it's not at least applied reasonably consistently?

Dismissing a stat just because it doesn't fit your narrative isn't logical.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Dismissing a stat just because it doesn't fit your narrative isn't logical.

I happen to think the vast majority of “hits” are simply, and often barely, incidental contact in todays NHL.

If you call that illogical to make yourself feel better, you’re welcome to your opinion.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It is interesting because after one more failed playoff you would think someone would notice this model doesn't work. Do they need star power and marketability to fill the arena? I don't think so.

They can't afford Drai and Ranta has no incentive to become a Leaf. If Mitch remains it is because a hockey mind thinks they can build a winner. If they have a strong playoff I believe he is back at whatever salary he wants. If they don't then you would thing the Prez is gone and its a new and unpredictable world.

My guess is that Marner will be back at 12-13 million for however many years he wants no matter even if he fades away in the playoffs as usual. As far the Prez being gone and a new unpredictable world, people were saying the same things before losing to MTL in the playoffs so I'll believe it when I see it.

I have issues with Marner, but him not getting hit enough isn't one of them. Why would I want him to get hit? I want him to avoid getting hit, and make plays.

Actually I don't have "issues" with Marner, there's only one "issue" and that's fading into near nothingness after the first few games of the playoffs, other than that he's great. I hope they have the best shorts shrink in the business working with him in secret and he's preparing to turn into a monster in the spring. I'm allowed to hope, right?

Yeah whyy should he strive to get hit? He probably get hit more because he need to follow Tavares pace. Nylander must be one of the players fans read wrong the most.He need to hit or he play wrong - i prefer him strip the player of the puck than hit . He need to go straight to the goal or he play wrong - many times it is better to draw players to you and find the third man entering the zone. He need to take hits or he play wrong - The other team try to hit you to make you tierd and slow you down, why should you not try to avoid that? .

This goes for Marner too .

Exactly!

 

[nuck]

To play the devil's advocate I don't it's proven Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Rielly can't work in the playoffs... and there's no cut off date while they're all here... If Kadri, Kessel, Bozak can all go somewhere and be a big part of the solution on a cup winner, these guys still have a chance every year. My sense is the organization will hold onto these guys, they seem to like being together. And the key to winning will be the random support cast they put together and change up year after year. Not satisfying if we're looking for big changes and give a guy a boot, but their one year deals on the support cast tells me they'll just try again with another crop of UFA's next summer.

I was more thinking of the next failed playoff attempt and what that means to Marners re-signing. It isn't proven the model doesn't work but the evidence continues to mount in favor of that. It wasn't the failure of the extra pieces to score against Florida that was the biggest problem. Allstar salaries should be Allstar results. But I would say remove Keefe first and see if a new voice gets a new outcome.

They have not explored the idea that its the coach that can't work in the playoffs. The idea that they might give SK one more shot to make him the summer scapegoat instead of Shanahan pisses me off but that seems like the path. New coach in 24-25, same bonehead Prez, and all the cap invested in the top forwards.

 

[FerrisRox]

I happen to think the vast majority of “hits” are simply, and often barely, incidental contact in todays NHL.

If you call that illogical to make yourself feel better, you’re welcome to your opinion.

Can you explain how you arrived at this conclusion?

I don't understand how you pretend to know how the NHL monitors, tracks and determines what a "hit" is.

You obviously know the details of how they do this, because you have concluded that they are including incidental contact as hits.

How did you get the information about how they track and categorize a hit in the NHL? What are the criteria they use, please explain.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Can you explain how you arrived at this conclusion?

I don't understand how you pretend to know how the NHL monitors, tracks and determines what a "hit" is.

You obviously know the details of how they do this, because you have concluded that they are including incidental contact as hits.

How did you get the information about how they track and categorize a hit in the NHL? What are the criteria they use, please explain.

I think you are being facetious, and this question is rhetoric as I suspect you know the answer already, but I'll bite anyway since the other guy appears to be a little fuzzy.

A hit is only registered when the receiving player is separated from the puck (so incidental contact wouldn't count as a hit normally).

The vast majority of hits take place along the boards when player A (usually defenseman) pins the opponent and player B comes in and scoops up the puck.

 

[studebaker17]

Can you explain how you arrived at this conclusion?

I don't understand how you pretend to know how the NHL monitors, tracks and determines what a "hit" is.

You obviously know the details of how they do this, because you have concluded that they are including incidental contact as hits.

How did you get the information about how they track and categorize a hit in the NHL? What are the criteria they use, please explain.

I don't think there is any critria . Every arena tracks their own. Hence why home and away records are vastly different.
Pretty much a useless stat.

 

[andora]

I think you are being facetious, and this question is rhetoric as I suspect you know the answer already, but I'll bite anyway since the other guy appears to be a little fuzzy.

A hit is only registered when the receiving player is separated from the puck (so incidental contact wouldn't count as a hit normally).

The vast majority of hits take place along the boards when player A (usually defenseman) pins the opponent and player B comes in and scoops up the puck.

Why is it facetious to ask someone for an explanation on something when that person makes a definitive statement?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Why is it facetious to ask someone for an explanation on something when that person makes a definitive statement?

Because he already knew the answer so it wasn't a genuine question. He was just calling out the other poster who was confused on some of the details.