Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Think the problem is the Leafs skill level has been as much a curse as a blessing over the years and is rooted in an immaturity. In the back of their minds, they can turn a deficit into a triumph by flipping a switch, a la the Columbus Game 4 comeback.

But in a supposed 50/50 series vs Boston, you don't actually need to "feast" on anybody. You can just win a well played, disciplined game 3-2, with the hope that your skill gives you that natural game breaking advantage when the moment is right. Doesn't seem to be how they're wired. They think they can go on a crazy dash at the end and 'dominate.'

Not being prepared for exams and then acing the occasional one will send you down the wrong path....that's what happened here over the years...too many "Amazing comebacks" has spoiled them to think they can do it every time...so they tend to ease their way into games without much worry.

 

[TheShape]

If Marner were approached and willing to waive his NMC (please don’t reply to this saying no chance, I get it’s very unlikely but this is a chat board and we all discuss our ideal moves), what teams do you think Marner would actually waive too? For me I think it comes down to either Los Angeles or Salt Lake City.

I don't see Marner going to an expansion team/rebuild in the prime of his career so I'd rule out Salt Lake City. LA makes sense and they have the pieces. Maybe Carolina or New Jersey? If the Leafs don't mind trading within division - Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo would be frontrunners and keeps him close to home.

 

[Stephen]

Not being prepared for exams and then acing the occasional one will send you down the wrong path....that's what happened here over the years...too many "Amazing comebacks" has spoiled them to think they can do it every time...so they tend to ease their way into games without much worry.

The way the previous regime used to talk about talent was quite embarrassing too, like Toronto is the only team with any talent, and let the cake walk commence. We aren't the 80s Oilers and Mitch is not prime Gretzky.

There needs to be a "coming to Jesus" realization that you might be more talented than a lot of guys, but the winners have that talent, a serious pro game and also are willing to fight through in the difficult moments.

 

[TMLAM34]

Curious why you think salt lake? I understand LA.

I think LA would be the front runner. They have the pieces to make a deal work and I can see Marner willing to waive to go there and sign an extension.

I mentioned Salt Lake due to it being a brand new franchise. This could be a once in a life time opportunity to join an expansion team, set records, potentially captain the team and Arizona has some nice and upcoming young players in their system. Utah also is a pretty nice place to visit.

 

[socko]

There needs to be a "coming to Jesus" realization that you might be more talented than a lot of guys, but the winners have that talent, a serious pro game and also are willing to fight through in the difficult moments.

This sounds like a perfect speech for Shanahan. I'm sure the core will file it right next to the discount speech.

 

[saffronleaf]

Matthews was our best player yesterday too so it makes no sense. If we need our 11 million dollar winger(soon to be 13 million) to be elevated by someone else, we have bigger problems.
What they should do if Nylander can play, put him on the 2nd line and drop Marner to the 3rd.

or drop jt to third line

we've got some players who can play center like jarnkrok that could be decent enough

nylander jarnkrok marner

or maybe even holmberg?

 

[GoonieFace]

Gents after 10+++++ brews best not to drive
. Teke an ubur .. i need a nap b4 jets game tonite .. mitch is a gteat kid .. came from nothing and with hockwy made homsllelf a good life .. one thing i will tell u is kid always tries his best and his heart always in right place .. he is not fully eecovwred from his ankle injury and with his game his edges are so soso impoetant to his mobility .. he has not said anytjing public but he told my son rexently he not having full movemebt .. they r still friends and play fortnite .. u can see he is noyvright just watch game and u will see it .. no excuses but we are in deep sh*t in this series .. it will take a tender miracle to win i think .. glg

What’s happening here…

 

[ER89]

The way the previous regime used to talk about talent was quite embarrassing too, like Toronto is the only team with any talent, and let the cake walk commence. We aren't the 80s Oilers and Mitch is not prime Gretzky.

There needs to be a "coming to Jesus" realization that you might be more talented than a lot of guys, but the winners have that talent, a serious pro game and also are willing to fight through in the difficult moments.

and why is it that our talent never beats the opposition talent?

Pasta shits on all our guys in the playoffs, drai mcd, kuch point and the list goes on.

It’s funny the word “feast” always seems to pop up around here. Marner should feast against weaker competition, Liljegren should feast against lower competition, Tavares should feast against lower competition etc. Meanwhile non of our players ever “feast” on our opponents.

Not trying to single your post out or anything, it’s just a word I’ve seen thrown around here quite a bit when this group of players rarely “feast” on others.

maybe we just load up willy matty marner lol i dunno man its f***ing pathetic at this point.

Our problem has ALWAYS been our offense goes god damn anemic in tight checking games in the playoffs. No secondary game.

Staying patient with it and sticking with it is such a stupid f***ing saying. Nah go do something else bang the front of the net hit some bodies get into swayman's grill etc

 

[Stephen]

and why is it that our talent never beats the opposition talent?

Pasta shits on all our guys in the playoffs, drai mcd, kuch point and the list goes on.

My take from watching them over the years is they were psychologically mismanaged as young players. In retrospect they started their playoff push too early and the contending pressures came too much too soon.

Organization’s expectations were both unrealistic in those 2018 and 2019 years but the message was also too coddling, underscoring belief in them and the inevitability of winning. So the belief that they’re better than everyone else but also a fragility from not being able to deliver.

This is all history and none of it would matter if some of them emerged into leadership roles with the maturity and self reflection to alter course and mentality. As it is, I think they basically struggle from a sense of superiority and inferiority at the same time which makes them both resilient and completely fragile. They’re not always dialled in because of their reputation and identity as higher skilled than anyone else. But they also carry the baggage of their own failure, the ghosts Paul MacLean talked about.

 

[ruaware41]

imagine if we kept verhaeghe

 

[fahad203]

imagine if we kept verhaeghe

Has nothing to do with this thread and Marner

You can make that same arguement for Isles and Tampa. They also had him

Reality is, Verhaege is a late bloomer, took him 6+ years to become an NHL pro

Nobody in today's game waiting 6 years for a player to come around. Nobody

 

[Guided by Veseys]

What’s happening here…

An insane multi year devotion to a bizarre persona created for hfleafs?

 

[cvaicunas]

I don't see Marner going to an expansion team/rebuild in the prime of his career so I'd rule out Salt Lake City. LA makes sense and they have the pieces. Maybe Carolina or New Jersey? If the Leafs don't mind trading within division - Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo would be frontrunners and keeps him close to home.

Detroit needs some high end skill, no doubt. I wonder if Yzerman would want someone with Marner's apparent attitude? Or maturity level?

 

[Antropovsky]

imagine if we kept verhaeghe

When he was a UFA, Dave Morrison, the scouting director who had drafted Verhaeghe recommended Dubas sign him. Dubas entertained it and proceeded to low ball Verhaeghe.

Verhaeghe asked for 1 million and Dubas refused. Which Verhaeghe signed with Florida. The rest is history.

 

[Antropovsky]

My take from watching them over the years is they were psychologically mismanaged as young players. In retrospect they started their playoff push too early and the contending pressures came too much too soon.

Organization’s expectations were both unrealistic in those 2018 and 2019 years but the message was also too coddling, underscoring belief in them and the inevitability of winning. So the belief that they’re better than everyone else but also a fragility from not being able to deliver.

This is all history and none of it would matter if some of them emerged into leadership roles with the maturity and self reflection to alter course and mentality. As it is, I think they basically struggle from a sense of superiority and inferiority at the same time which makes them both resilient and completely fragile. They’re not always dialled in because of their reputation and identity as higher skilled than anyone else. But they also carry the baggage of their own failure, the ghosts Paul MacLean talked about.

Great post. Can't deny that the Marleau signing, most likely resulted in them likely being advised to play a way that will enable them to have long, rich careers, but not successful ones.

 

[Gabriel426]

My take from watching them over the years is they were psychologically mismanaged as young players. In retrospect they started their playoff push too early and the contending pressures came too much too soon.

Organization’s expectations were both unrealistic in those 2018 and 2019 years but the message was also too coddling, underscoring belief in them and the inevitability of winning. So the belief that they’re better than everyone else but also a fragility from not being able to deliver.

This is all history and none of it would matter if some of them emerged into leadership roles with the maturity and self reflection to alter course and mentality. As it is, I think they basically struggle from a sense of superiority and inferiority at the same time which makes them both resilient and completely fragile. They’re not always dialled in because of their reputation and identity as higher skilled than anyone else. But they also carry the baggage of their own failure, the ghosts Paul MacLean talked about.

I think we(fans, and MGT) thought they either already are or close to alpha personalities with the skills and talents they(AM, MM and Willie) have. But as years go by. I don't think they are alpha. They have the talents to be the alpha but they lack the grit(google Angela Duckworth for her definition). I think the early success they had was a reason they are the way they are. Funny how Hyman seemed to be the one with the Alpha attitude with grit. Just look at how he carried himself esp with the Oilers and how he talked about Cup or Bust.
None of our guys ever said anything about Cup or Bust bc they know they are far from it and understand Leafs won't touch them even if they fail. When McD, Drai and Hyman spoke about Cup or bust, they know change will come and most importantly, they HATE losing.
I don't think our boys like losing but they don't hate it. Nobody talks about AM, MM and JT combining for ONE goal against the Panthers as long as AM was scoring in the regular season. I think you and I had a discussion about AM either scoring hat tricks or not scoring and being quiet in games earlier in the year, and thats not healthy. I do find AM more active with Domi and Bert even if he didn't score.
To me thats the part about our guys, they don't HATE losing. I don't want to point finger but Marleau was a really bad influence on them. If they actually had a better mentor/vet at that time, I do believe the guys will be much better than now. They probably still not alphas but they will have grit.

When he was a UFA, Dave Morrison, the scouting director who had drafted Verhaeghe recommended Dubas sign him. Dubas entertained it and proceeded to low ball Verhaeghe.

Verhaeghe asked for 1 million and Dubas refused. Which Verhaeghe signed with Florida. The rest is history.

Didn't he left and joined 2 or 3 other teams before actually getting regular playing time.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think we(fans, and MGT) thought they either already are or close to alpha personalities with the skills and talents they(AM, MM and Willie) have. But as years go by. I don't think they are alpha. They have the talents to be the alpha but they lack the grit(google Angela Duckworth for her definition). I think the early success they had was a reason they are the way they are. Funny how Hyman seemed to be the one with the Alpha attitude with grit. Just look at how he carried himself esp with the Oilers and how he talked about Cup or Bust.
None of our guys ever said anything about Cup or Bust bc they know they are far from it and understand Leafs won't touch them even if they fail. When McD, Drai and Hyman spoke about Cup or bust, they know change will come and most importantly, they HATE losing.
I don't think our boys like losing but they don't hate it. Nobody talks about AM, MM and JT combining for ONE goal against the Panthers as long as AM was scoring in the regular season. I think you and I had a discussion about AM either scoring hat tricks or not scoring and being quiet in games earlier in the year, and thats not healthy. I do find AM more active with Domi and Bert even if he didn't score.
To me thats the part about our guys, they don't HATE losing. I don't want to point finger but Marleau was a really bad influence on them. If they actually had a better mentor/vet at that time, I do believe the guys will be much better than now. They probably still not alphas but they will have grit.


Didn't he left and joined 2 or 3 other teams before actually getting regular playing time.

Yes, he was very good for Tampa's farm team. Then became a UFA before getting a real good chance for Tampa... Morrison recommended Dubas sign him that offseason but Dubas refused to go above league minimum (was the rumor I recall).

 

[Nineteen67]

It’s concerning that after 7 playoffs and a play in that he still doesn’t know when they play a good playoff game.

 

[therealkoho]

What’s happening here…

He's telling you his pipeline to Leafs knowledge is through his son who is "thumb-buddies" with Mitch enjoining for inestimable hours playing a video game. Through that connection his is inside info,that tells him that MM is not at full health and still hobbled by the ankle problem. It should also be known that MM always gives 100% of everything he has to give even if he's only at 80% of full health. The subscript is also saying that we are lucky to have a player like Mitch on this team. I think!

 

[ACC1224]

He's telling you his pipeline to Leafs knowledge is through his son who is "thumb-buddies" with Mitch enjoining for inestimable hours playing a video game. Through that connection his is inside info,that tells him that MM is not at full health and still hobbled by the ankle problem. It should also be known that MM always gives 100% of everything he has to give even if he's only at 80% of full health. The subscript is also saying that we are lucky to have a player like Mitch on this team. I think!

Seems pretty obvious he isn't at 100%.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Marner is obviously way more of a playmaker than a scorer, but 10 goals in 51 playoff games is bad for any true top six player let alone one like he is supposed to be.

I think that's the specific statistic that is very telling.

 

[AvroArrow]

I'm at the point where I just expect absolutely nothing from him in the post-season except a pissy post-game interviewing telling himself he played great. The guy is so entitled, such a massive ego, it's no wonder almost the entire fan base is turning against him.

He needs to try as hard as he does when negotiating contracts.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Didn't play too bad was noticeable but ultimately a non factor in the game.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Seems pretty obvious he isn't at 100%.

Didn't make much sense to come back as early as he did to be honest, with a high ankle sprain maybe it would have made sense for game 82 or game 1 of the playoffs, that thing just needs rest rest rest.

 

[Tak7]

Regular season - everytime Marner gets the puck, I expect him to do something brilliant

Playoffs - everytime Marner gets the puck, I expect the play to die.

He's undoubtedly such a huge talent, but the pressure he puts on himself cripples & paralyzes him. The org really need to be doing a better job of working on the mental side of his game.