Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[BraveCanadian]

I think Hayes said it best today. He said that when MM and AM are together, the 3rd guy on that line is whatever, just get them the puck…. But now with Domi and Bert with AM, it turns out the other two actually can provide offense.
also it is a nightmare for the opposing team to play shut down, as AM, MM and Willie are on separate lines and can create offence all by themselves.
If Keefe don’t galaxy brain it, this is by far the most balance lineup in the AM era.

Yup, I like them on separate lines because it forces both of them to be less predictable.

 

[Notsince67]

That's not how it works Gary. The definition of Marner hater is someone who has currently or in the past wanted to get rid of him. To evaluate Marners talent, not on a day to day basis but his overall incredible talent and indisputable value to the team and still bizarrely choose to want him off of the team. We're not talking about criticizing him for a bad game or month or the playoffs but actually wanting him off of the team at some point. They can't flip flop their way out of it. They can't say that if he gets the Conn Smythe all is forgiven because if the haters had their way he would have been gone before it even happened. The haters will always be haters no matter what. Guess who is a hater?

Its been my observation is the haters comment only on the highlight reels. What does that say about their viewing times?

 

[Antropovsky]

Hard to argue that. If Keefe puts Willy with them, they need to be dominate every shift.

While just a small sample size, we have seen Matthews be able to play without Mitch and Willy.

Now Mitch has to rekindle the 2019 magic with JT, and Willy probably has to figure out how to play with Knies and I don't know who.

I doubt the drop Jarnkrok to the 4th line

Matthews scored 37 goals and 73 points in 68 games in just his third season, on a line with Marleau, Johnsson/Kapanen. All three hardly serviceable NHL players since. And point totals they didn't come near again either (proving Matthews boosts linemates totals). That's a 45 goal and 89 point pace in only his third year. Matthews has proven numerous times that he is very productive without elite linemates.

 

[sunstersun]

We're gonna need Marner to carry JT's corpse. It's a hard assignment. The top line is locked in.

Our playoff success is gonna ride or die on the 2nd line. I have confidence in Willy to generate something, even with meh linemates.

Having 1 super line and 2 good/threatening lines is a good playoff mixup.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

We're gonna need Marner to carry JT's corpse. It's a hard assignment. The top line is locked in.

Our playoff success is gonna ride or die on the 2nd line. I have confidence in Willy to generate something, even with meh linemates.

Having 1 super line and 2 good/threatening lines is a good playoff mixup.

If the game was played in theory and not in real life; putting Marner at C and JT on the wing fixes the team

 

[DarkKnight]

McMann-Tavares-Marner have been dominating the ice since being put together, they're just not converting yet. Once upon a time Hyman-JT-Marner was one of the best lines in the NHL and McMann's game is similar to Hyman.

True, it hasn't been bad, just seems disjointed to me. Also JT now isn't the same as with Hyman, especially his stick handling abilities, his game is much more grunt like now, Marner needs someone to link up with. McMann has no vision, he's head down and north south, which is fine, but again Marner needs a partner. I'll give it more time too.

 

[1specter]

True, it hasn't been bad, just seems disjointed to me. Also JT now isn't the same as with Hyman, especially his stick handling abilities, his game is much more grunt like now, Marner needs someone to link up with. McMann has no vision, he's head down and north south, which is fine, but again Marner needs a partner. I'll give it more time too.

I think for Marner to evolve and be more effective in the playoffs, he himself will have to learn how to play a bit more north-south. It's fun watching him dipsy doodle in the regular season, but his overthinking and trying to play east-west hockey in the playoffs has often rendered him ineffective especially at 5v5. Teams box him out in the playoffs and he basically starts to play catch with himself while not being able to gain access to the prime scoring areas of the ice. You just don't get the same looks in the post-season because of how the game is called differently and teams employing different strategies.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Like how we always thought they will be our 3 heads monster

The Tavares signing really messed that up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think for Marner to evolve and be more effective in the playoffs, he himself will have to learn how to play a bit more north-south. It's fun watching him dipsy doodle in the regular season, but his overthinking and trying to play east-west hockey in the playoffs has often rendered him ineffective especially at 5v5. Teams box him out in the playoffs and he basically starts to play catch with himself while not being able to gain access to the prime scoring areas of the ice. You just don't get the same looks in the post-season because of how the game is called differently and teams employing different strategies.

This is well stated IMO. Playoff hockey is just different, and Marner has to adjust. It's interesting how there's all these different POV's about Marner in the playoffs. Here's just a few that I've seen:

1-Marner leads the team in playoff scoring, therefore he's great, there is no problem.

2-Even though he stops producing at some point, Marner's underlying numbers are awesome ... here look, a bunch of numbers ... there is no problem.

3-Playoff hockey is different, and Marner's game just isn't suited for the playoffs because he's not given room to operate like he is during the regular season.

4-Various other narratives, mostly just throwing insults at the kid so nothing needs to be said there.

My best guess is none of the above, I think it's all in his head. He wants to win so badly and he puts too much pressure on himself and psyches himself out in the end which is why I've been saying for years we should get the best sports shrinks in the business to work with him.

Playoff Marner's never been the same since Matt Martin left. Maybe Reaves can take him under his wing the way Martin did or something I dunno but I remember how much I liked the way Marner played against Boston that year, that was playoff hockey and he did just fine so it seems to logical to me that he can absolutely excel in playoff hockey, he just needs to somehow get over whatever mental block is holding him back. As I'm fond if saying around this time of the season - who knows, maybe this will be the year. There was a time when Marner was my favorite player, seems like such a long time ago but who knows, maybe it can be like that again. But you only get so many chances to figure it out, if he disapppoints again this spring and is signed to a forever deal to stay in Toronto for top dollar, it's going to be hard to be too happy about that. Whatever, hopefully he absolutely kills it this spring to the point where nobody will complain if he gets 12.9 million a year for however many years he desires.

And I'll say it again, it's unfortunate that it took Marner getting injured to get M&M broken up, if Marner hadn't gotten hurt they'd probably still be together. Anyhow, hopefully Keefe can get his shit together and figure out what line combos work before the playoffs start. If only he'd have separated M&M a couple of months ago he'd have had more time for this but it is what it is. And if course if our PP doesn't get their shit together, it's not going to matter anyway, we'll see.

 

[darrylsittler27]

This is a huge playoff for Marner. He will want the huge bucks but if they lose many will see the team needs other things more.

 

[notDatsyuk]

McMann-Tavares-Marner have been dominating the ice since being put together, they're just not converting yet. Once upon a time Hyman-JT-Marner was one of the best lines in the NHL and McMann's game is similar to Hyman.

I agree, but the problem is that Tavares' game is not similar to once-upon-a-time JT.

Add Willy instead of JT and I think you're right.

 

[1specter]

I agree, but the problem is that Tavares' game is not similar to once-upon-a-time JT.

Add Willy instead of JT and I think you're right.

I dunno, JT might not be as effective as he was 5 years ago, but personally I think it's bizarre that after Tavares had a career year with Marner on his wing in the first year of his contract he's pretty much never played with Marner again. He started the '19-'20 season with him, but then once Keefe took over from Babcock, he put Matthews-Marner together and has basically had them together permanently up until his recent injury. I don't know how you don't try something that worked so well again at all for basically 5 years, it makes no sense.

 

[Antropovsky]

That’s not remotely true, they are one of the most effective duos in the league by every metric. Look, I like separating them too because it makes us harder to game plan against, and it takes away the pressure of one line having to produce for success. BUT, let’s not now pretend they weren’t absolutely dominate together, because they were, period, case closed. They didn’t get lazy, they didn’t not forecheck, that’s just pure fiction. Again, I like the change, but let’s not get carried away. Goals are goals, zone time is zone time, facts are facts, we don’t have to recreate reality to justify liking the current makeup.

Yea except without Marner, Matthews advanced stats remain close to the same, and his goal and point totals are better. Meanwhile Marners drop substantially without Matthews. Indicating, Marner stats are boosted by Matthews.. like everyone else that is fortunate enough to play with Matthews.

Marner is hardly a 100 point player while playing with Matthews, an elite player whom boosts his linemates stats. That's concerning if Marner is going to want the same % of the cap he took last contract.

 

[Antropovsky]

We're gonna need Marner to carry JT's corpse. It's a hard assignment. The top line is locked in.

Our playoff success is gonna ride or die on the 2nd line. I have confidence in Willy to generate something, even with meh linemates.

Having 1 super line and 2 good/threatening lines is a good playoff mixup.

Tavares had 14 points in 12 games when Marner was out. Tavares has 1 assist in 3 games since Marner returned and was put on his line.

 

[Antropovsky]

Leafs didn't allow a pp goal against in the 5 games prior to Marner coming back. They have now allowed pp goals in 2/3 games since his return. One was direct giveaway by Marner.

Just wanted to remind everyone that the narrative in this discussion by some was the Teams PK was hurting in his absence and he's integral to this Teams PK success.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Knock it off, both of you.

I don't want to be here, and you don't want me here. Don't make me come here.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner looked pretty good there

 

[Dave92]

I'd take Domi at 2 million over Maner at 11 on our first line any day.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'd take Domi at 2 million over Maner at 11 on our first line any day.

Ha, hard to argue with that. Marner needs to show he can carry a line, and a very good line at that in order to be worth the 12-13 million he's probably going to be asking for.

In other news, I was really hoping the return of Marner would bring our PP back from the deal but so far, it looks worse than ever. If they don't get this fixed soon ...

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner looked pretty good there

Which one of Marners two giveaways on the Leafs powerplay did you like? I particularly liked his giveaway that led to the devils having a 2 vs 1 and Samsonov making a 10 bell save.

Thats the exact type of play hes made numerous times in past playoffs that have sunk the leafs.

 

[notdoneyet]

I think for Marner to evolve and be more effective in the playoffs, he himself will have to learn how to play a bit more north-south. It's fun watching him dipsy doodle in the regular season, but his overthinking and trying to play east-west hockey in the playoffs has often rendered him ineffective especially at 5v5. Teams box him out in the playoffs and he basically starts to play catch with himself while not being able to gain access to the prime scoring areas of the ice. You just don't get the same looks in the post-season because of how the game is called differently and teams employing different strategies.

What a slag of crap
Marner has 14 points in the last playoffs and finished with a +- of +7
He gets points 5v5 and more importantly he defends on an elite level 5v5

 

[1specter]

What a slag of crap
Marner has 14 points in the last playoffs and finished with a +- of +7
He gets points 5v5 and more importantly he defends on an elite level 5v5

Lol and what a dogshit post this is. It's already been shown he pads points in early series blowout games and his production dries up as the series goes on longer. There is also proven evidence that he gets neutralized more from the prime scoring areas in the playoffs and gets pushed to the outside. I said nothing critical about his defense, although the delay of game penalties under pressure don't help.

Why Maple Leafs fell short again and what to do with Matthews, Marner

So another disappointing end to a Maple Leafs season comes with huge off-season questions. Justin Bourne looks at exactly why this year's group fell short again, and explores what it should mean for Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Read this article from last year if you don't believe me.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What a slag of crap
Marner has 14 points in the last playoffs and finished with a +- of +7
He gets points 5v5 and more importantly he defends on an elite level 5v5

He's so good sometimes, but then at other times he looks like a confused, overwhelmed teenager out there. Game 3 against Florida, the biggest game of the year he was literally fumbling the puck all game and was the worst player on the ice for either team. The kid's an enigma, from so good to so bad in the blink of an eye. Mostly good to be sure, but we need him to be good more consistently in the biggest pressure games.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner was all over the ice today doing Marner things,

- between the leg deke, followed by between leg shot
- one timers from the blueline....while going backwards,
-tons of drop passes - one of those drop passes completely missing the teammate
- a giveaway on the PP leading to the 2vs1 and probably Samsonovs biggest save of the game.

And all around the perimeter of the ice. Thank goodness Tavares was on tonight.

 

[ACC1224]

Couple more points tonight, 5 in 4 since returning while trying to get his game back. Seems to have rejuvenated Tavares which is a bonus.