Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[Dekes For Days]

I truly don't believe there is a path forward to win a cup with a winger making 11M that only scores 30-35 goals at their peak.
Regular season ace, but the cap allocation/formula is played out. Goals are extremely hard to come by in the playoffs. If you're going to give 11M, please let it be a #1C or #1D, not an undersized #1W.

But we can't give it to a 1D then. If there's no path to a cup with a player making 11m that scores 35 goals, then we can't give it to a player that scores like 5-10 goals.
As we all know, players can't bring anything to a team other than goals.

 

[Craig Button]

So I need to come up with the package of players to see if you are willing to trade Marner for, and why is that? ….

Because you said you would trade Marner for a #2 Center man that is in their mid 20’s that is under contract along with a top 4 right hand shot D man that is also in their mid 20’s under contract for a combined cap hot similar to Marner’s.

That’s why silly

It’s not like I asked you out of no where

I just want to see who these players are?


Imagine someone saying they want to trade Marner for a number one Center and a number one D man at the same cap hit and when you question them which players they are imagining trading for they question you “why are you asking me?”


Yeah. You just did that but for #2 Center and 2nd pairing d man

 

[Captain Crunch]

You said since the start of Boston, 2018.

Oops, I made a mistake. I was copying what the site said. But as I stated when I corrected it, there have been 8 game 1’s since Marner and Matthews first made the playoffs.

 

[Craig Button]

Wonder what the add from Toronto would have to be for:

Cozens and Power?
okay too much
Cozens and Samuelsson?

What's Leafs add?

Now if want to get picky, he's a LD, but why not say he has to have blonde hair and a tattoo on his left buttocks?

I don’t know ask they guy that made the suggestion

 

[Lemontree]

I don’t know ask they guy that made the suggestion

So are you now considering accepting a trade for Marner? A few posts ago you said that no Leaf fans that you know/talk to would trade Marner.

That breeze you feel is my point going over your head.

 

[Craig Button]

I agree that the Devils wouldn't make that trade, do you know why? Because Marner doesn't carry the elite value (at his contract/cap hit) that some posters on here think he does.

Based on your response of calling it a "super dumb suggestion" would mean you think this heavily favors the Leafs meaning it would benefit the Toronto Maple Leafs to trade Mitch Marner. So you WOULD trade Marner.

Thank you for participating in this thought exercise.

To your second point. Both players currently fit under the current cap hit of Marner as Hughes has 2 more years on the ELC.

 

[Craig Button]

So are you now considering accepting a trade for Marner? A few posts ago you said that no Leaf fans that you know/talk to would trade Marner.

That breeze you feel is my point going over your head.

Wow I can’t

Wow

Please stop

Whether I consider trading Marner or not does not change that I do not know anyone that wants to trade him.


My gawd man.

Like seriously

I can’t help you man

 

[ULF_55]

Wow I can’t

Wow

Please stop

Whether I consider trading Marner or not does not change that I do not know anyone that wants to trade him.


My gawd man.

Like seriously

I can’t help you man

I know people who would trade him.

Many posters here would trade him.

Everyone here should be willing to trade him if it makes the team better, unless you are not a fan of the team, but a fan of the player. One can be both, but winning is a team thing and should take precedence over liking a player.

 

[Lemontree]

Tell you why majority of our fans are hated by others.

It’s most likely the same 70%.

However this doesn’t reflect real life fans. Only on line fans.
I haven’t met one leaf fan that would trade Marner

Wow I can’t

Wow

Please stop

Whether I consider trading Marner or not does not change that I do not know anyone that wants to trade him.


My gawd man.

Like seriously

I can’t help you man

Stick to one talking point. Is it that no Leaf fans would trade him or is it that no Leaf fans want to trade him?

 

[Gabriel426]

I know people who would trade him.

Many posters here would trade him.

Everyone here should be willing to trade him if he makes the team better, unless you are not a fan of the team, but a fan of the player. One can be both, but winning is a team thing and should take precedence over liking a player.

There is no untouchable on the Leafs. It all depends on the return package.

If the players who are coming back, McD, Mack, Makar, Bedard or even Jack Hughes and MM needs to go the other way. Then MM is as good as gone.
But if the players coming back are Shane Wright, Hintz, Hannifin, Rojo or Fantilli, then unless the plus is like 4-5 first round picks, MM is untouchable.

 

[hamzarocks]

I doubt anyone would disagree with this. On their first contracts, I think Matthews was overpaid by $500k and Marner about $1.5 mil. Nylander and Tavares were market.

RIght now the four account for $40.505 mil. If we could get Matthews at $12, Marner at $11.5, Nylander at $9 and Tavares at $5 it would actually be less cap overall than now, while they all get raises.. except JT. I think with these contracts, it would give the flexibility you speak of, and I think most fans would be good with these numbers.

JT will not be a leaf at 5M

Look at kopitar and what he got as older and probably worse or a bit better at best

 

[PromisedLand]

I love how everyone loves the new Aho contract, but Marner scores 30+% more than him and is overpaid. Imo the C vs W argument is nullified by Marners' selke nomination. Marner is paid fairly imo, maybe a slight overpayment at best but nothing to complain about and certainly not worth considering to trade him because of it.

Leafs have made 1 appearance in the 2nd round in 7 years. And then they got embarassed in the 2nd round again.

when the "top" players get shutdown in the playoffs; we need depth to help out and we can't afford quality depth because the so called "core" group takes a bunch of cap allocation.

Aho's team just played the conference finals. Do you really think Leafs' cap allocation and team structure is better compared to the Canes?

If not; then ask yourself how were Canes able to create that team structure? And if you think Leafs' team structure is better then you and I view hockey very differently

 

[andora]

There is no untouchable on the Leafs. It all depends on the return package.

If the players who are coming back, McD, Mack, Makar, Bedard or even Jack Hughes and MM needs to go the other way. Then MM is as good as gone.
But if the players coming back are Shane Wright, Hintz, Hannifin, Rojo or Fantilli, then unless the plus is like 4-5 first round picks, MM is untouchable.

Who is RoJo

 

[mjd1001]

There is no untouchable on the Leafs. It all depends on the return package.

If the players who are coming back, McD, Mack, Makar, Bedard or even Jack Hughes and MM needs to go the other way. Then MM is as good as gone.
But if the players coming back are Shane Wright, Hintz, Hannifin, Rojo or Fantilli, then unless the plus is like 4-5 first round picks, MM is untouchable.

I don't think you would be getting anywhere close to anyone on the first part of your list for MM. Not even close in a one on one. On the other hand, it is laughable that anyone would consider a player on the bottom part of that list..that is laughable the other way.

Not that any of these players are on the block, but in a one for one deal for MM....well, If Pitt WANTED to move Crosby would you take a MUCH older and declining Crosby for him? Or maybe a player YOUNGER than him with a better contract but with worse stats (so far) like a Dylan Cozens or Hintz.

 

[Notsince67]

I know people who would trade him.

Many posters here would trade him.

Everyone here should be willing to trade him if it makes the team better, unless you are not a fan of the team, but a fan of the player. One can be both, but winning is a team thing and should take precedence over liking a player.

There are people that believe he is best for the team. The false premise begins with the improper valuation, a poor understanding of the game and an unrealistic expectation that there are 1, 2 or more players readily available that would represent a good trade.

 

[Mess]

I know people who would trade him.

Many posters here would trade him.

Everyone here should be willing to trade him if it makes the team better, unless you are not a fan of the team, but a fan of the player. One can be both, but winning is a team thing and should take precedence over liking a player.

A bad overpaid contract can devalue a player as it impacts team competitiveness and team winning should take precedence,

Marner should be on the Draisaitl deal 8 X $8.5 mil AAV and Draisaitl should be on the Marner deal 6 X $10.9 mil AAV.

Since those contracts are reversed the Oilers are getting tremendous value while Leafs are not getting fair market value bang for your salary cap buck.

In a Salary Cap World its not just about player talent its about putting the best team together under a Salary Cap upper limit that wins the Stanley Cup by good cap management recognizing talent and at what price point that players provides value to his team success.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Either have I.
I believe the ones that would are the younger fans who aren't able to appreciate and recognize such a unique talent.

Moot now anyway, NMC and as the Team has shown they have no desire to move him.

In my experience it's the younger fans, who are more player-oriented, who want to keep him; while the older fans, who are more attached to the team than individual players, want to improve the team by trading (not just) him.

I play in over-45 and over-19 leagues, and the difference in quite noticeable.

 

[andora]

In my experience it's the younger fans, who are more player-oriented, who want to keep him; while the older fans, who are more attached to the team than individual players, want to improve the team by trading (not just) him.

I play in over-45 and over-19 leagues, and the difference in quite noticeable.

Same here.. younger league in the spring older league now.. huge difference in how they talk

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner is 30th in goals over the last 3 years...

He is a good goal scorer.

4th in points over the same time.

And Nylander is 21st, so he's better and worth more?

Using one stat isn't really a good argument.

And the post you responded to specifically said playoffs. Last three playoff seasons Mitch has 5 goals (Willy has 12).

 

[Gabriel426]

Who is RoJo

Ryan Johansen, just an example

 

[Gabriel426]

I don't think you would be getting anywhere close to anyone on the first part of your list for MM. Not even close in a one on one. On the other hand, it is laughable that anyone would consider a player on the bottom part of that list..that is laughable the other way.

Not that any of these players are on the block, but in a one for one deal for MM....well, If Pitt WANTED to move Crosby would you take a MUCH older and declining Crosby for him? Or maybe a player YOUNGER than him with a better contract but with worse stats (so far) like a Dylan Cozens or Hintz.

I was just making examples.

Sid would be interesting bc he still got the fire in him and he is someone who knows when to heat up at the right moment. Also someone who will absolutely change the locker room and leadership for the Leafs.
Kuch is probably not someone I would trade despite being younger and better bc he does tend to Mail it in quite a bit in games this past season.

To me, if trading MM 1 for 1, the player coming back needs to be more than just someone who put up points, he needs to have that fire and leadership. Someone who will take ownership of the locker room and leadership.
Which is why it is hard to trade MM bc every team would rather hold on to that player.

While typing this, I do find Marchand to be interesting and fits the bill. Maybe BT can get it done with just Willie for Marchand straight up

 

[ZEBROA]

Would you trade MM for EP ? If EP signed for 10 x 8years.
Just got a feeling he has more "javlar anamma" in him.

I know Vancouver would not.. so its just for fun

 

[Arzak]

I was just making examples.

Sid would be interesting bc he still got the fire in him and he is someone who knows when to heat up at the right moment. Also someone who will absolutely change the locker room and leadership for the Leafs.
Kuch is probably not someone I would trade despite being younger and better bc he does tend to Mail it in quite a bit in games this past season.

To me, if trading MM 1 for 1, the player coming back needs to be more than just someone who put up points, he needs to have that fire and leadership. Someone who will take ownership of the locker room and leadership.
Which is why it is hard to trade MM bc every team would rather hold on to that player.

While typing this, I do find Marchand to be interesting and fits the bill. Maybe BT can get it done with just Willie for Marchand straight up

It's actually an interesting proposition. While Marchand is the better player and ultimate competitor, Nylander is younger and he played with Pasta in Sweden.

If you think we are a serious Cup contender (I don't), Marchand is the player we want, but if not, keep the younger player in the system.

 

[Notsince67]

Stick to one talking point. Is it that no Leaf fans would trade him or is it that no Leaf fans want to trade him?

It's really not the point. I like Marner but if a trade involved getting a player like Quinn Hughes, I wouldn't be crying in the least. Seems like an OK trade. How many players are available at this profile? That is the point. He also had a NMC so I don't even understand the purpose of the thread. He isn't getting traded. If you want him off the team, you let him walk for nothing. That is really the gist of it.

 

[Smif]

Leafs have made 1 appearance in the 2nd round in 7 years. And then they got embarassed in the 2nd round again.

when the "top" players get shutdown in the playoffs; we need depth to help out and we can't afford quality depth because the so called "core" group takes a bunch of cap allocation.

Aho's team just played the conference finals. Do you really think Leafs' cap allocation and team structure is better compared to the Canes?

If not; then ask yourself how were Canes able to create that team structure? And if you think Leafs' team structure is better then you and I view hockey very differently

Meh, we both got beat by the same team, we just faced them earlier. I don't see Carolina as some super team at all, not even one PPG player and subpar goaltending.

My stance isn't that we shouldn't reallocate money, it's just that we shouldn't trade our second best player to do so, he's also the best player for making the players around him better.

My stance is wait it out until Tavares' contract is up.