Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[ACC1224]

Im I’m my early 40’s.
Live in downtown core have multiple properties in the Don Mills Area. Haven’t met one Leaf fan that would trade Mitch Marner.

Now as for your trade. Name this 2nd line Centre and top 4 Right hand D who are both in their mid 20’s and under contract and also play on the same Team to make this trade possible

Either have I.
I believe the ones that would are the younger fans who aren't able to appreciate and recognize such a unique talent.

Moot now anyway, NMC and as the Team has shown they have no desire to move him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Actually, if you go back to the start of the 2017 playoffs, there have been 8.

You said since the start of Boston, 2018.

 

[andora]

Im I’m my early 40’s.
Live in downtown core have multiple properties in the Don Mills Area. Haven’t met one Leaf fan that would trade Mitch Marner.

Now as for your trade. Name this 2nd line Centre and top 4 Right hand D who are both in their mid 20’s and under contract and also play on the same Team to make this trade possible

Good to know proximity to the arena ties in to leaf fan relativity

 

[Craig Button]

Good to know proximity to the arena ties in to leaf fan relativity

Toronto is a very large city.
I live down town and I’m not near the arena. I grew up in the Don mills area and that is no where close to the arena.

 

[Craig Button]

If you haven't met one Leaf fan that would trade Mitch Marner than I don't know who you speak to. Fans of a team want the team to experience success and generally don't get completely wrapped up into individual players (unless you are a younger fan). If you could trade Mitch Marner and get back a solid #2 Center and a Top 4 (right shot) Dman, both of whom are in their mid 20s and under contract for multiple seasons at a combined cap hit of Marners, I would do that trade.

Please I’m really interested in the name of the players you have in mind.

Solid #2 Center mid 20’s and under contract for multiple years.

Top 4 right hand D mid 20’s and under contract for multiple years.

Play on same team to make trade possible

I can’t find any.

 

[Lemontree]

Im I’m my early 40’s.
Live in downtown core have multiple properties in the Don Mills Area. Haven’t met one Leaf fan that would trade Mitch Marner.

Now as for your trade. Name this 2nd line Centre and top 4 Right hand D who are both in their mid 20’s and under contract and also play on the same Team to make this trade possible

So I need to come up with the package of players to see if you are willing to trade Marner for, and why is that? You just told me that you don't know a Leaf fan that would trade Marner. If someone has the mindset that a player shouldn't be traded than it doesn't matter the offer.

McDavid is the greatest hockey player alive today, I think it would crazy to say he can't be traded. He likely won't be but anything is possible when talking about sports transactions.

Please I’m really interested in the name of the players you have in mind.

Solid #2 Center mid 20’s and under contract for multiple years.

Top 4 right hand D mid 20’s and under contract for multiple years.

Play on same team to make trade possible

I can’t find any.

I would trade Marner as part of a package (him alone won't do it) to the Devils for:

Nico Hichser and Luke Hughes.

This doesn't exactly fit into my above example but I would do it.

 

[notbias]

Which rounds? They must be close to ripe by now.

They are close.

Outside of the first round, 2 prospects have 50+ games - Peterka and Aman.

Niemela is likely going to get a lot of time with the Leafs at some point and Hrivonen, Tverberg, and Villeneuve will all potentially get a look at the least.

Our first round pick that year (who was a lot better than Knies) got cancer, unfortunately.

 

[PromisedLand]

In 2014 vs LA he produced more in games 5-7 in that single series to erase a 3-1 deficit than Marner has produced in his entire career of game 5's-7's. LOVE how you just arbitrarily cut it off at 2013.

Didn't mean he was a bad playoff performer? no shit sherlock.

I also find it hilarious how these same posters don't take into account the cap composition and team structure at the same time. It is laughable the kind of so called "analysis" that is conducted without context.

I wouldn't be surprised they are playing the long game only to justify the absolute ridiculousness of dubas era

 

[notbias]

It's not just game 7's with Marner. The general trend is that his production drops off when the playoffs start, and the longer the playoffs go, the more it drops off.

Kucherov's production drops off for sure, didn't dig into anyone else enough.

edit: looked a little more - Stamkos, Crosby, and Point are all the same, get worse later on in a series.

 

[IPS]

Kucherov's production drops off for sure, didn't dig into anyone else enough.

Yeah let's compare Kucherov's playoff resume with Marner's, that's definitely gonna be favorable for Mitch.

 

[notbias]

Yeah let's compare Kucherov's playoff resume with Marner's, that's definitely gonna be favorable for Mitch.

I mean if you want to ignore the initial discussion, sure. But I think it is dumb to jump into a conversation without context.

 

[Craig Button]

So I need to come up with the package of players to see if you are willing to trade Marner for, and why is that? You just told me that you don't know a Leaf fan that would trade Marner. If someone has the mindset that a player shouldn't be traded than it doesn't matter the offer.

McDavid is the greatest hockey player alive today, I think it would crazy to say he can't be traded. He likely won't be but anything is possible when talking about sports transactions.


I would trade Marner as part of a package (him alone won't do it) to the Devils for:

Nico Hichser and Luke Hughes.

This doesn't exactly fit into my above example but I would do it.

It doesn’t fit so try again.

No cheating this time.

Super dumb suggestion.

1. Devils won’t trade both players for Mitch Marner and nor do we have the picks they want to balance out the trade.

2. The only way both players would fit under a cap hit similar to Marner would mean Luke Hughes would have to become a bust

 

[andora]

context is becoming a word similar to hockey IQ or narrative, a buzz word..

 

[PromisedLand]

Wow. 70+% have voted to trade Marner.

Majority of the Leafs fan base knows whats good for the team. In a cap world, Marner making the AAV he is; is just not sustainable for any progress or success. And it will be even worse when he negotiates his next deal.

Not a formula for winning hockey especially for a franchise that has cup aspirations

 

[Gary Nylund]

I mean if you want to ignore the initial discussion, sure. But I think it is dumb to jump into a conversation without context.

I think the numbers you've given need a LOT more context to have any value. I don't even know where to get your numbers but it seems like a ton of work to gather these stats and I'm not going to get into a numbers debate with you. I've seen every playoff game Marner's ever played and most of the regular season games as well, I've also watched a fair bit of other teams playing hockey over the last 50 years and I'm quite confident that I'm correct when I say that Marner's playoff performance drops off a lot more than is the norm for other top players. And it's not just the numbers (which make him look better than he is despite the dropoff), he looked like a scared rookie playing his 1st NHL game in the biggest game of the year, sure that's just one game but it's just the cherry on top of the Marner cake so to speak and I just don't feel like he's a player you can count on when the going gets tough in the playoffs.

Elite regular season player though, one of the best in the game today.

Majority of the Leafs fan base knows whats good for the team. In a cap world, Marner making the AAV he is; is just not sustainable for any progress or success. And it will be even worse when he negotiates his next deal.

Not a formula for winning hockey especially for a franchise that has cup aspirations

Yup. The Marner lovers need to understand that most people have nothing against Marner, it's Marner with an 11 million cap hit that's the issue.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yup. The Marner lovers need to understand that most people have nothing against Marner, it's Marner with an 11 million cap hit that's the issue.

Precisely!


Marner is an elite talent no doubt; but when we compare other teams and their cap allocation to their "star" players especially in the Atlantic Division and then Eastern Conference (ex: Devils/Canes/etc.); the competitiveness of the Leafs goes to hell as a team even though Marner may individually be better than player X on another team; collectively the other team has better cap allocation and team balance that would help in playoffs compared to Leafs. Because leafs are too dependent on the so called Core4; when Core4 flops so do the Leafs and its been 7 years of evidence to show that they don't work togther well at their caphits; other teams do get depth scoring so they get by unlike the Leafs as other teams can afford quality depth as their stars not eating majority of their cap space; Leafs look for fillers as depth pieces which is not ideal.

P.S. (this is just me though, not the entire fanbase)
I do have a problem with Marner's attitude. Dude never takes responsibility, deflects blame and is combative in the pressers. That to me looks problematic.

 

[Lemontree]

It doesn’t fit so try again.

No cheating this time.

Super dumb suggestion.

1. Devils won’t trade both players for Mitch Marner and nor do we have the picks they want to balance out the trade.

2. The only way both players would fit under a cap hit similar to Marner would mean Luke Hughes would have to become a bust

I agree that the Devils wouldn't make that trade, do you know why? Because Marner doesn't carry the elite value (at his contract/cap hit) that some posters on here think he does.

Based on your response of calling it a "super dumb suggestion" would mean you think this heavily favors the Leafs meaning it would benefit the Toronto Maple Leafs to trade Mitch Marner. So you WOULD trade Marner.

Thank you for participating in this thought exercise.

To your second point. Both players currently fit under the current cap hit of Marner as Hughes has 2 more years on the ELC.

 

[Antropovsky]

As a fan, I'd want Marner on the team at Ahos price. I think Aho is the more valuable player, he plays the harder position, has more playoff success and is a better goal scorer. He has less points but he plays on one of the most defensively minded team's in the league that routinely scores less than the Leafs and plays on a team with significantly less high end talent. Nobody on the Canes roster is even close to Matthews caliber.

He's not in Mackinnon or Mcdavid tier. He's much more than 1 million from that tier too. If he comes in at Ahos terms sure. None of this wanting to be like Matthews. The difference between Matthews over the past 4 years has been much more than 600,000 too.

 

[ULF_55]

Please I’m really interested in the name of the players you have in mind.

Solid #2 Center mid 20’s and under contract for multiple years.

Top 4 right hand D mid 20’s and under contract for multiple years.

Play on same team to make trade possible

I can’t find any.

Wonder what the add from Toronto would have to be for:

Cozens and Power?
okay too much
Cozens and Samuelsson?

What's Leafs add?

Now if want to get picky, he's a LD, but why not say he has to have blonde hair and a tattoo on his left buttocks?

 

[Racer88]

NHL Network's rankings of anything are always laughably bad. They're not worth anything. They don't even have the KHL rookie of the year in our top 10 prospects lol.

Is this the guy they picked in the 5th round, 157th overall

Wow. 70+% have voted to trade Marner.

Unfortunately we can’t ever trade him with out his permission it’s either give him whatever he wants every time he wants it or let him walk for free

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is this the guy they picked in the 5th round, 157th overall

Yes. Nikita Grebenkin. Was the KHL rookie of the year.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Our first round pick that year (who was a lot better than Knies) got cancer, unfortunately.

That's the sad part. Fate stepped in and possibly ended his hockey career (hope not!).

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I truly don't believe there is a path forward to win a cup with a winger making 11M that only scores 30-35 goals at their peak.

Regular season ace, but the cap allocation/formula is played out. Goals are extremely hard to come by in the playoffs. If you're going to give 11M, please let it be a #1C or #1D, not an undersized #1W.

 

[Smif]

Majority of the Leafs fan base knows whats good for the team. In a cap world, Marner making the AAV he is; is just not sustainable for any progress or success. And it will be even worse when he negotiates his next deal.

Not a formula for winning hockey especially for a franchise that has cup aspirations

I love how everyone loves the new Aho contract, but Marner scores 30+% more than him and is overpaid. Imo the C vs W argument is nullified by Marners' selke nomination. Marner is paid fairly imo, maybe a slight overpayment at best but nothing to complain about and certainly not worth considering to trade him because of it.

 

[notbias]

I truly don't believe there is a path forward to win a cup with a winger making 11M that only scores 30-35 goals at their peak.

Regular season ace, but the cap allocation/formula is played out. Goals are extremely hard to come by in the playoffs. If you're going to give 11M, please let it be a #1C or #1D, not an undersized #1W.

Marner is 30th in goals over the last 3 years...

He is a good goal scorer.

4th in points over the same time.