Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[thewave]

That one’s on Dubas and Shanny. Letting the kid step on his own sh*t.

99% of all other NHL management was like WTF are you guys doing?

They saw all this a mile away and how the playoffs were going to test him being a small player with less bite.

We had our rebuild managed by a rookie GM and a Rookie Coach.

Babcock was right. And he was a pariah for it. He wanted Acciari, Schenn, McCabe, l’afférty , ROR

But Babs got Johnsson, Kerfoot, kappanen, Giraffe, petan, marincin

Lmaooooooooo

Babcock was sabotaged by Dubas. This organization was sabotaged by Dubas.

100% Dubas outsmarted himself

Kadri liked Babs.. And gives him credit for modinf him into the player he became (how many players would look back and credit Keefe for his.coaching)
And he can see both sides of coach Mike Babcock’s tactics to mould him into a harder-working, defensively responsible pivot, crediting the tactician for his attention to detail and game-planning against specific opposition.

Until Babcock arrived on the scene, remember, it would be nearly laughable to consider Kadri a shutdown specialist.

“Babs did what he did. He tried to get the group to the best position as possible. I think he deserves a little bit of credit, you know, even though I think it was maybe time for a change over there to spark the team,” Kadri said.

Kadri was asked if Babcock crossed lines in order to motivate, the most extreme public example being Mitch Marner’s list.

“Sometimes,” Kadri replied. “Babs is a good coach. Sometimes his methods, I think, weren’t the greatest. So that’s just the fine line between players and coaches. I think as a coach, you have to take that responsibility to kind of have your players’ backs and that’s when you get the best from them

The baby soft Marner cried Babcock off the team. He is probably in his ivory tower right now counting his millions laughing it up. He may even be giving some credit Nylander tbh.

 

[Gabriel426]

Let’s not make Babs into a saint here.
What he did to Spezza on Opening night was ridiculous and uncalled for.
At the same time, I do think the young guns at that time were too snowflakes too.

 

[thewave]

Let’s not make Babs into a saint here.
What he did to Spezza on Opening night was ridiculous and uncalled for.
At the same time, I do think the young guns at that time were too snowflakes too.

He isn't a classy guy. He's a prick from all the reports but sometimes that's just what you need to win. One thing I can almost say for certain is that 2-3 extra years under him and this core would not be as soft as they are.

 

[Superstar]

Let’s not make Babs into a saint here.
What he did to Spezza on Opening night was ridiculous and uncalled for.
At the same time, I do think the young guns at that time were too snowflakes too.

I think Babcock was sick and tired of the soft team Dubas was building for him, and he took it out on Spezza...ironically, Spezza became one of the toughest guys on the team, which is so sad and pathetic...wasn't a good move on Babcock's part, but those teams he coached were super soft! And people were blaming him for leaning on Hyman? The guy has more tenacity than Matthews and Marner combined.

 

[Gabriel426]

He isn't a classy guy. He's a prick from all the reports but sometimes that's just what you need to win. One thing I can almost say for certain is that 2-3 extra years under him and this core would not be as soft as they are.

Yep bc our core would either stick with the program or ask for a trade.

 

[notbias]

I think Babcock was sick and tired of the soft team Dubas was building for him, and he took it out on Spezza...wasn't a good move on his part, but those teams he coached were super soft! And people were blaming him for leaning on Hyman? The guy has more tenacity than Matthews and Marner combined.

Babcock is a dick, go look into why he only has 1499 games

 

[Antropovsky]

Babcock was sabotaged by Dubas. This organization was sabotaged by Dubas.



The baby soft Marner cried Babcock off the team. He is probably in his ivory tower right now counting his millions laughing it up. He may even be giving some credit Nylander tbh.

Marner even credited Babs for making him a better player and said he made the team better...and he said they had a good relationship.

Marner praises Babcock for making him better player with Maple Leafs

Marner praises Babcock for making him better player with Maple Leafs | NHL.com

'He had the trust in me … he didn't in my first year,' forward says of fired coach

www.nhl.com

Looks like the only question was matthews relationship with Babs...but it's pretty clear that any of the Leafs thought they improved with Babs. I don't think anyone will be saying Keefe made them better players. If anything they regressed.

I like that Marner knew that he worked his way out of Babs dog house. Once Lou and Babs left, Marner suddenly had a invincible attitude.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think Babcock was sick and tired of the soft team Dubas was building for him, and he took it out on Spezza...ironical, Spezza became one of the toughest guys on team, which is so sad and pathetic...wasn't a good move on Babcock's part, but those teams he coached were super soft! And people were blaming him for leaning on Hyman? The guy has more tenacity than Matthews and Marner combined.

I think when JT was signed, it sealed the fate of the team as there would not be good depth coming in due to the cap.
Kadri getting the 2nd suspension was horrible as you just can’t trust him at that time.
Marleau also wasn’t helping with leadership.

With this year team, I think Babs would have guided the team to the ECF bc he got guys who knows how to get the job done.

 

[Superstar]

View attachment 708303

Babcock is a dick, go look into why he only has 1499 games

I didn't say he wasn't a dick...he could be both a dick and be sick and tired of the soft team.

 

[Al14]

His softness is offensive.

I just came from a dance recital !!! I think Marner and Matthews should take up tap dancing and retire from hockey as multi-millionaires.

Virtually no body contact, and no need to worry about scoring goals at important times !!!

 

[Gabriel426]

View attachment 708303

Babcock is a dick, go look into why he only has 1499 games

Babs is a dick.

Babs is a better coach than Keefe

Both things can be true at the same time

 

[notbias]

Babs is a dick.

Babs is a better coach than Keefe

Both things can be true at the same time

Babcock has one cup... I think Keefe would have won with that team too.

With the same core team, Keefe has one more series win than Babcock. I am not sure he is a better coach.

 

[Jmo89]

I'd like to see Marner traded unless Matthews indicates there's zero chance he resigns.

Matthews has choked as well, but I think it's harder to replace a #1C than a top line winger. With a different mix and different wingers maybe we see improvement from Matthews.

It's sad that Keefe is such a garbage coach that all he can do is look at the "data" and continue to watch Matthews and Marner fail together in the playoffs. Other coaches are tweaking things game to game.

Matthews has the potential to be one of the best players in the entire league, but we have to accept that he's lacking come playoffs. It sucks, but he just is. An $11M player should not need his wingers to elevate his game but its obvious Matthews does. We need a GM who is more concerned about team building and surrounding our core players with the right ingredients (while admitting their faults) than being their friend.

 

[Superstar]

Babcock has one cup... I think Keefe would have won with that team too.

With the same core team, Keefe has one more series win than Babcock. I am not sure he is a better coach.

The bolded part is a fallacy and can't be proven, so why even go there? The fact is Babcock did win a Cup. This year's Leaf team is far superior than any Leaf team Babcock ever coached.

 

[notbias]

The bolded part is a fallacy and can't be proven, so why even go there? The fact is Babcock did win a Cup. This year's Leaf team is far superior than any Leaf team Babcock ever coached.

The core is the same. So let's compare the best we can. Keefe has done more with the core.

 

[DueDiligence]

I think Babcock was sick and tired of the soft team Dubas was building for him, and he took it out on Spezza...ironically, Spezza became one of the toughest guys on the team, which is so sad and pathetic...wasn't a good move on Babcock's part, but those teams he coached were super soft! And people were blaming him for leaning on Hyman? The guy has more tenacity than Matthews and Marner combined.

I think you have to look back and remember that throughout his career Spezza was known as a great offensive forward that sucked at playing d. Babcock was probably thinking that was the last type of vet I want influencing these young guys.

 

[Superstar]

The core is the same. So let's compare the best we can. Keefe has done more with the core.

That's disingenuous...the core is more mature and are grown men, no longer boys, and were surrounded by much more grit and depth than those teams.

 

[Gabriel426]

Babcock has one cup... I think Keefe would have won with that team too.

With the same core team, Keefe has one more series win than Babcock. I am not sure he is a better coach.

Babs never had this Leafs team.
And Keefe hadn’t won anything.
I really don’t think Keefe would have won with that Wings team.

 

[thewave]

Babcock has one cup... I think Keefe would have won with that team too.

With the same core team, Keefe has one more series win than Babcock. I am not sure he is a better coach.

What makes you say that? This team is right up there talent wise and Keefe can't even get them to take the next step. He's a full blown failure of a coach really. The worst.

 

[ULF_55]

Let’s not make Babs into a saint here.
What he did to Spezza on Opening night was ridiculous and uncalled for.
At the same time, I do think the young guns at that time were too snowflakes too.

What he did to Spezza was tell him Babcock was the center of attention.

It was never about team it was about Babcock.

 

[Dreakmur]

I think you have to look back and remember that throughout his career Spezza was known as a great offensive forward that sucked at playing d. Babcock was probably thinking that was the last type of vet I want influencing these young guys.

And throughout training camp, he wasn’t much better. It wasn’t until after Babcock embarrassed him that he started to play like the Spezza we all loved.

 

[centipede2233]

I'd be happy to keep these guys if they were willing to take less money so we can find a skilled, grinding LWer to play with them (Knies might be one). You cannot have nobody in your top 6 that does not play a heavy, bruising game. Jarnkrok and Kerfoot in our top 6 is embarassing.


Sure but I am assuming they want him back. No decision to be made if they want to move on from him.

If they didn’t take less money as expiring ELC’s, why would they have a change of heart and take a discount? M&M will continue to extract max dollars

 

[Menzinger]

Babs made his own bed with his choices..he was right about some things and unnecessarily a jerk in other circumstances. Him dealing with Marner was a great example of that - he knew he wanted to improve elements of his game, and then went about trying to go about things in one of the worst ways imaginable given the circumstances.

Either way Leafs need to focus on the future not lament about what happened years ago at this point

 

[ITM]

I think the next couple of months will determine a number of directions - obviously.

I have a number of scenarios in mind, but I suspect what happens with discussions with Matthews is likely to determine Marner's direction.

You have to sit Matthews down and say, We want to extend you but we don't think Marner fits the Stanley Cup mold. If his response is non-negotiable, then you're calculating the return for both Matthews and Marner and in turn, determining Nylander as the pillar for years to come.

I think you'd have to move Marner to the Western Conference. There are some very good options. Suppose the next step is to determine if teams in that conference see a different value than the one our fanbase does.

Tough days ahead.

 

[Amadeus]

Keep. We will never win that trade and I feel we won't get better as a result of it.