Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[PromisedLand]

Why Maple Leafs fell short again and what to do with Matthews, Marner

So another disappointing end to a Maple Leafs season comes with huge off-season questions. Justin Bourne looks at exactly why this year's group fell short again, and explores what it should mean for Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Great article here which tangibly shows why Marner is far less effective in playoffs.

His game will never translate well into playoffs unless he has two guys creating space for him because he can't create space for himself. At 11 AAV that is too "rich".

Marner has gotta go.

There has been more news about:

- Marner been played on the 4th line by babcock for his fancy bullshit and outcry from paul marner, ferris and friends
- Marner throwing a hissy fit after Keefe put him on the 4th line going and breaking his stick in the game agasint the ducks
- Marner with "Shambles in my brains" and "grown men" comment where Keefe had to walk back his comments after the game against the Yotes because marner's feelings were hurt
- Wanted "A" on his jersey because Matthews got one
- etc.

And these are just his "behavioral pattern"

Now lets talk hockey:

- Montreal series puck over the glass penalty when there was plenty of time to clear the puck
- Montreal series game 7 game is tied after 1st period, tries to make a f***ing fancy play, turnsover the puck, montreal transitions and gallagher scores to give montreal 1-0 lead in the 2nd period
- Bolts series (2021-2022 season): Game 6 OT, again makes a stupid hail mary play, turns the puck over, gets beat on the wing, then Holl acts like a pylon right afer, Point scores
- Bolts series (2021-2022 season): Game 7 plays like trash
- Florida series: Game 2 makes fancy plays can't clear the puck, Matthews does the same shit, BOOM back of our net
- CBJ series: Can't do F all; and then after the series ended in the presser says "not going to change anything in the offseason because he played well"

I mean enough is enough already.

Marner is a fantastic player, but he needs to be on the move. We have to many soft players, and I don't think continuing to pay marner 11 AAV for next 2 seasons or hell 11+ later is going to benefit the team.

Time for a break.

Need to get back a forward and d-man.

Forward: that can score 60-70 pts, plays hard nosed hockey and can create space on the ice, and is not afraid to go to the net to bang in rebounds from matthews' shot

D-man: 30-40 pts d-man, thats big and nasty and makes oppositions' forwards life absolute hell

Or

Trade Marner for picks, sit back, re-evaluate the situation.

 

[New User Name]

The problem is what Marners going to demand in his next contract.

He's not worth what he's getting now. Do you actually think there's a team out there that will trade for him knowing he'll want an increase?

 

[PromisedLand]

The problem is what Marners going to demand in his next contract.

He's not worth what he's getting now. Do you actually think there's a team out there that will trade for him knowing he'll want an increase?

technially marner is owed 8 million dollars per year in real dollars while his cap hit is 11 AAV; there might be a team willing to do that move who is just out of playoff spot to make some playoff revenue and cash out in 2 years, and then they can re-evaluate after.

Leafs should definitely move on from marner

 

[New User Name]

technially marner is owed 8 million dollars per year in real dollars while his cap hit is 11 AAV; there might be a team willing to do that move who is just out of playoff spot to make some playoff revenue and cash out in 2 years, and then they can re-evaluate after.

Leafs should definitely move on from marner

I agree but I think some here are delusional to think we'll get a significant return for him. We might get a 1st and a 2nd but other than that I don't think we're getting a star back.

 

[PromisedLand]

I agree but I think some here are delusional to think we'll get a significant return for him. We might get a 1st and a 2nd but other than that I don't think we're getting a star back.

We just need to find a desperate GM looking to save his job

but July 1st is coming fast, so we gotta act even faster.

 

[New User Name]

We just need to find a desperate GM looking to save his job

but July 1st is coming fast, so we gotta act even faster.

I hope you're right but sadly I don't think so.

Dubas really screwed us big time by giving them as much as he did and obviously Shanahan okayed it too.

 

[Martin Skoula]

technially marner is owed 8 million dollars per year in real dollars while his cap hit is 11 AAV; there might be a team willing to do that move who is just out of playoff spot to make some playoff revenue and cash out in 2 years, and then they can re-evaluate after.

Leafs should definitely move on from marner

If it wasn’t for his NMC he’s only owed 9 mil total after his bonus is paid July 1st. Some basement team could keep his cap hit at 700k in real cash and flip him at the deadline with double retention only costing them and the middleman under 2 mil each.

 

[New User Name]

If it wasn’t for his NMC he’s only owed 9 mil total after his bonus is paid July 1st. Some basement team could keep his cap hit at 700k in real cash and flip him at the deadline with double retention only costing them and the middleman under 2 mil each.

His NMC starts the same day as his SB is due. Therefore they can't trade him without his approval. Unless there's a way around that.

 

[PromisedLand]

If it wasn’t for his NMC he’s only owed 9 mil total after his bonus is paid July 1st. Some basement team could keep his cap hit at 700k in real cash and flip him at the deadline with double retention only costing them and the middleman under 2 mil each.

If we can get

A forward that can score 60-70 points, plays nasty, crashes the net to bang in rebounds from matthews' shots and a Big nasty D-man who can put up 30-40 pts and makes opposition forwards' lives hell PLUS prospects or picks

I'd happily retain on Marner for 2 years if we can make the cap work.

We lose about 90-100 point player, but we gain two player who by committee can score 90-100 points and also bring in the element of nasty that is useful in playoffs. Pick(s)/Prospect(s) is just gravy

His NMC starts the same day as his SB is due. Therefore they can't trade him without his approval. Unless there's a way around that.

Kyle Dubas truly screwed the pooch there

 

[New User Name]

Kyle Dubas truly screwed the pooch there

That's why agents rated him so high.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

What team is a good fit for Marner? Getting good assets for Marner and moving his money elsewhere makes the most sense.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Marner has been my dude since before we drafted him. I absolutely love his style of play offensively and defensively. So that makes what I'm about to say difficult, but i think it's time to move on.

Something about this group of players together simply can't get us over the hump, and Marner will garner us the biggest return minus Matthews.

I hate to say it but its about the crest not the players and this team has consistently failed, a new system needs to be implemented.

Just off the top of my head, trading him for a young 2C and stud defenceman makes the most sense to me, he will garner a crazy return.

Play Tavares as 2nd line wing, new 2c, Knies can play on line 1 replacing Marner and Nylander can fit in between whichever line he has the most chemistry with, PLUS we add the stud on the backend to ease Riellys minutes and let him go off more offensively, if we could get playoff Rielly all year we would be DANGEROUS.

Anyways, just the thoughts I have, which it's crazy I think we should do it. I own a Marner jersey, but I just think its time, you can only try the same thing over and over so many times.

 

[Superstar]

What team is a good fit for Marner? Getting good assets for Marner and moving his money elsewhere makes the most sense.

I think Vancouver and LA would be a good fit for Marner.

 

[WildWolfdog]

I agree but I think some here are delusional to think we'll get a significant return for him. We might get a 1st and a 2nd but other than that I don't think we're getting a star back.

If you think we're only getting a 1st + 2nd for Marner, then you're the delusional one.

This past deadline, these players returned a 1st + 2nd:

Chychrun
Jeannot
Hronek
Quick

And you think a 26 year old Marner, with two years remaining, coming off back to back 97 & 99 point seasons will get "maybe" a 1st and 2nd?

Gtfo.

 

[Leafsfan74]

That’s the number that’s been tossed around for a while now.

Kypreos brought it up during the season, Marek said he’s hearing around the $15M mark. Not the best sources, but it’s what is floating around now. Not something I randomly made up.

It’s been stated by many legit insiders that Matthews wants to be the highest paid player in the league. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that he’ll push for $15M.

If he is paid $15M good luck winning a Cup. I would trade him if that is his demand.

Being a wealthy player and having a legacy of failure would be a just punishment when he is retired and attends alumni meetings and wonders why his contemporaries have so many Cup rings on their fingers while he had to pay for his jewelry.

As a fan, I have suffered enough with this franchise and don't want to be that retired loser in 20 years wearing a Matthews jersey if it signifies "nice stats, no Cups"

Sometimes a player has to realize, "yes I am worth X dollars, but, how will my team look in the Cap era"? Ask any retired athlete and they all wish they won more.

 

[Dirty Dan]

If you think we're only getting a 1st + 2nd for Marner, then you're the delusional one.

This past deadline, these players returned a 1st + 2nd:

Chychrun
Jeannot
Hronek
Quick

And you think a 26 year old Marner, with two years remaining, coming off back to back 97 & 99 point seasons will get "maybe" a 1st and 2nd?

Gtfo.

99 Point guy who kills penalties and is a selke nominee. Lol he's one of the best in the league just didn't work out in the playoffs because he doesn't create his space like Nylander does with skating

 

[legobeard]

Maby not use the most useless player stat when trying to defend your stance.

The fact that there is fans that think Nylander had a better playoff in round 2 is a big failure, for both Matthews and Marner. Not even the most bias fan should be able to put Nylander before Marner or Matthews. That is how good they should be. They were not near that good. They are and should be held at a much higher standard then Nylander. Had they done there part to the fullest we would have won every game round 2. Nylander played closer to his best then they did. Thats all.

Tavares should be traded. Put him on forth line until he gives up and ask for a trade.

That would be such a disrespectful move by the leafs, no player would ever trust managments nmc during negotiations. Who would trust an organization that would pull scummy tactics like that.

 

[legobeard]

Trade Marner. The guys turns the puck over too much when he's under pressure. He gets in his head too much.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think Vancouver and LA would be a good fit for Marner.

Not sure about LA. They already got Kempe and Fiala as wingers, and they don't have a true sniper to maximize MM's value, plus beside prospects, they don't have anything that the Leafs want.
Nucks is interesting b/c Miller can come our way and they do have snipers in Boeser and Kuz that would be on another level if they have MM to play on their line.
Both Miller and MM PK, so both teams will have guys on PK.

Nucks will either send Myers(with retention) or Garland plus draft picks over. Leafs will trade Myers or Garland for more draft picks.

Might just work. But I still would trade JT for Miller and Myers or Garland before touching MM.

 

[ZEBROA]

That would be such a disrespectful move by the leafs, no player would ever trust managments nmc during negotiations. Who would trust an organization that would pull scummy tactics like that.

I was a little harsh, but i would without question put him on third line.

Players should never be asigned a nmc for line changes. He was realy bad long stretches and nothing was done. Both Marner and Nylander has been moved down one step (Nylander even two steps). Hate it when coaches dont treat players close to equall.

Coaches should show and say "No matter who u are, i expect your best, i belive u can be your best, until you show that progress, this is what we will do"

 

[Pengu]

Garbage player in the PLAYOFFS which is ALL that matters, end of story. Who cares if a player scores 150 pts if he disappears in the playoffs?

He's a great regular season player that would had brought back a haul if NOT for his 11 M cap hit. There are very few teams that can afford him and the teams that can afford him are not in a position where they need him. He will get back some good pieces but NOT even close to what ha could had if he had a reasonable cap hit.

 

[studebaker17]

Excellent article that totally validates the eye test that soft perimeter hockey = playoff losers.

I kind of agree on the eye test part but this article is pure garbage of someone trying to validate their opinion . The case study is just to small . Talk to me when the shot counts are in the hundreds not a couple a game . Couple more shots from the slot and the percentages are way different .
Aside from that , the majority of shots Marner had were on the PP where he plays the point . Of course his shots will be from outside the slot . That said he plays the tip shot more often than not as a set play which wouldn't even get counted in this "case study"
Now the eye test part . I though Marner went to the dirty areas as much as he ever does or even more . That said , he seemed to just not be doing it at the right time and he's not strong enough in lower core to stay for long before he gets pushed out.

Also regarding eye test . For all the hate Tavares gets around these boards he's the only consistant force the Leafs have around the net . At least from a top level player anyways. Knies was as well and think he'll be a huge addition to this team going forward .

 

[Moridin]

Marner to Coyotes for Keller + Ottawas 1st.

if carolina does not win it this year, one could dream about an Marner for Necas + Pesce deal.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner to Coyotes for Keller + Ottawas 1st.

if carolina does not win it this year, one could dream about an Marner for Necas + Pesce deal.

Flyers need a face of their rebuild. I'd be interested in Hart, Provorov, Frost, Koneckny, their 1st.

 

[thusk]

His game will never translate well into playoffs unless he has two guys creating space for him because he can't create space for himself. At 11 AAV that is too "rich".

Marner has gotta go.

There has been more news about:

- Marner been played on the 4th line by babcock for his fancy bullshit and outcry from paul marner, ferris and friends
- Marner throwing a hissy fit after Keefe put him on the 4th line going and breaking his stick in the game agasint the ducks
- Marner with "Shambles in my brains" and "grown men" comment where Keefe had to walk back his comments after the game against the Yotes because marner's feelings were hurt
- Wanted "A" on his jersey because Matthews got one
- etc.

And these are just his "behavioral pattern"

Now lets talk hockey:

- Montreal series puck over the glass penalty when there was plenty of time to clear the puck
- Montreal series game 7 game is tied after 1st period, tries to make a f***ing fancy play, turnsover the puck, montreal transitions and gallagher scores to give montreal 1-0 lead in the 2nd period
- Bolts series (2021-2022 season): Game 6 OT, again makes a stupid hail mary play, turns the puck over, gets beat on the wing, then Holl acts like a pylon right afer, Point scores
- Bolts series (2021-2022 season): Game 7 plays like trash
- Florida series: Game 2 makes fancy plays can't clear the puck, Matthews does the same shit, BOOM back of our net
- CBJ series: Can't do F all; and then after the series ended in the presser says "not going to change anything in the offseason because he played well"

I mean enough is enough already.

Marner is a fantastic player, but he needs to be on the move. We have to many soft players, and I don't think continuing to pay marner 11 AAV for next 2 seasons or hell 11+ later is going to benefit the team.

Time for a break.

Need to get back a forward and d-man.

Forward: that can score 60-70 pts, plays hard nosed hockey and can create space on the ice, and is not afraid to go to the net to bang in rebounds from matthews' shot

D-man: 30-40 pts d-man, thats big and nasty and makes oppositions' forwards life absolute hell

Or

Trade Marner for picks, sit back, re-evaluate the situation.

Marner is probably the best 2 way foward of the entire NHL...

Do you know how many winger had been finalist for selke last decade? 2 Marner and Mark Stone

The biggest thing i saw with Marner is when hes playingnwith matthews. Hes not playing to create himself space but to make play to Matthews and hes forcing play a lot, was taking a lot of useful risk and bevome really predictable... exemple a 2v1 marner and matthews, you already know marner will not take a shot.

When they playing together its like batman and robin...matthews drive the play and marner follow Matthews... when they are split, Marner was driving his own line.

At the same time Matthews played his worst hockey individually everytime he played with Nylander

So marner didn't great with matthews
Matthews didn't great with nylander
Nylander didn't look great with Tavares

Everybody who played with Marner had been instantly better...

Yes he looked bad offensivly vs florida but sorry except kampf, lafferty, kerfoot, rielly, schenn, who's really looked good both side of the game? Marner and matthews still foward who step up to beat tampa in 1st round...