Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[Superstar]

I don't buy it. If he's such a heart on his sleeve Gilmour fangirl, that pressure and frustration would turn into intensity. Maybe he starts taking slashing penalties, or god forbid maybe he hits someone. He's not Gaudreau, he's 6' 190, you can drop someone if you go up high out of frustration.

His reaction to knowing he's actively screwing the team on the ice and screwed Leaf fans at large by letting Ferris and his dad negotiate through the media is to sulk and mope, not get angry and do something about it.

Not to mention his exit interview. Saying he's going to change nothing about his off-season prep is not something that a guy who "cares too much" would say.

I don't think Marner is 6 ft, 190 lbs...that's an exaggeration...he's probably 5'11" and less than 180 lbs...Aho is 6' and 176 lbs and looks a bit bigger than Marner.

 

[LeafGrief]

I don't buy it. If he's such a heart on his sleeve Gilmour fangirl, that pressure and frustration would turn into intensity. Maybe he starts taking slashing penalties, or god forbid maybe he hits someone. He's not Gaudreau, he's 6' 190, you can drop someone if you go up high out of frustration.

His reaction to knowing he's actively screwing the team on the ice and screwed Leaf fans at large by letting Ferris and his dad negotiate through the media is to sulk and mope, not get angry and do something about it.

Man, you don't get it because you don't want to. He's a human being with all of the flaws, strengths, weaknesses, and quirks of an individual. How can you say how one person reacts to pressure and frustration? His problem is literally that he's crumbling under the weight of his pressure. I think we'd all love it if he channeled the frustration into something more productive instead of wilting into a turnover shitshow, but that's what you get when you have an actual human who can't hack it.

Yeah, it really sucks that knowing he's f***ed up his own little legacy and he mopes instead of succeeds, but again, you've just got a flawed person trying to live their own life while dealing with the consequences of their own actions. I bet the contradiction of wanting to be Doug Gilmour and Mr Beloved while knowing that we hate him since his contract eats at him. He sucked balls the year after he signed it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time in human history that a person loved something, f***ed it up, and then suffered from the consequences of their own actions.

Note that I'm not actually speaking about him with any sympathy here. I'm just trying to point out that these guys aren't perfect little psychopaths who swim in their pools of money at night. At the end of the day, maybe he is and truly doesn't care, but that's not what I see when I watch him. I see a guy who cares way too much, has overburdened himself with his own expectations and a disastrous contract saga, and now simply cannot live up to the expectations that he has for himself.

 

[egd27]

Yeah I shook my head at that one and pretty much his whole interview.

I turned it off at that point. Couldn't look at his pouting face and listen to hard it's been any longer. I hope his sponsors saw that and cut ties with him as soon as possible.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I don't think Marner is 6 ft, 190 lbs...that's an exaggeration...he's probably 5'11" and less than 180 lbs...Aho is 6' and 176 lbs and looks a bit bigger than Marner.

He wasn't much smaller than Kadri when they played side by side, an inch and 10-15 pounds isn't the difference between a guy who's put several people in the hospital and the softest player in the playoffs. That's purely a difference in how they respond to frustration and pressure.

 

[mallory67]

Just my 2 cents:

Marner finished 4th in scoring.

Marner is a big reason we get the Rocket Richard trophy this year.

Marner was +21 and in general plays incredible defense and PK. McDavid scored 105 points and was also +21.

Marner, helped us GET to the playoffs, and he did that in multiple seasons. So regular season does not and cannot count for ZERO. That said he needs to up his game and find a way to win in the playoffs. They all do.

I do not count the first 2 eliminations to Boston/Washington. We were a VERY young team and big underdogs. I do take offense to the last 2 eliminations ... but we did take them both 7 games.

Conner and Leon also got eliminated in 4 straight.

If we trade Marner we will regret it.

 

[Trapper]

3 weeks ago, he was an elite 2-way winger who plays all situations matchup minutes and dominates and today he's a bum.

How many games did they play in the last 3 weeks?

Look I get the pros for keeping Marner and trying to work through.
A lot of you don’t want to hear or see the other side.

In a flat cap world we have 3 11 million guys and a 7 million Nylander for half the cap on 4 forwards.

Marner. Did he even score a power play goal this year?
When was the last time he scored in the playoffs? Only 3 weeks ago? No. 3 series now. Weaker competition each time.

When you are primarily a playmaker and nobody is scoring, you aren’t scoring either. For franchise money. Sorry, you don’t pay a 20 goal winger franchise money. Don’t care how many assists.

Then there are the not engaged, not starting in time, compete, killer instinct and not changing anything attitudes.

These are the con sides which start to add up way more for me than your pro sides.

So again, none of what I am saying is based on 3 weeks. It’s an ongoing process combined with team failure, balance and other factors. The needs of the many over 1 come first. I would at the very least be exploring Marner trade options.

Is that a fair enough assessment?

 

[Superstar]

He wasn't much smaller than Kadri when they played side by side, an inch and 10-15 pounds isn't the difference between a guy who's put several people in the hospital and the softest player in the playoffs. That's purely a difference in how they respond to frustration and pressure.

Kadri is 6 ft. Kucherov is listed as 5'11" and 180 plus lbs, a very stocky build...I don't see how Marner is 6 ft, 190 lbs.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I guess his teammates are not his friends...there are people living alone in deep depression, no job and no money, and very little hope...the pandemic has affected everyone...he's an excuse maker, but not very good at it.

Mitch is communicating quite fine with his buddies over Fortnite virtually every night late .. but every kid has this issue in COVID times .. and I am sure he misses has girlfriend too like a lot of these kids too .. these times are hard for everyone that way .. he is in spotlight so much harder to sneak ur girlfriend in .. but believe me if you guys think it isn't happening while i got some swamp land for ya baby .. i have seen it with my guys ... boys will be boys

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't think Marner is 6 ft, 190 lbs...that's an exaggeration...he's probably 5'11" and less than 180 lbs...Aho is 6' and 176 lbs and looks a bit bigger than Marner.

on skates yes

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't think Marner is 6 ft, 190 lbs...that's an exaggeration...he's probably 5'11" and less than 180 lbs...Aho is 6' and 176 lbs and looks a bit bigger than Marner.

LOL it happens hopefully less today but 1 team i played for listed me at 6ft7 240 in guide .. when I asked PR what da heck they said they used measurements with full equipment on .. no sh*t i couldn't believe it LOL .. why these marketing guys do that crap i never understood .. stupid really

 

[RoadWarrior]

Just my 2 cents:

Marner finished 4th in scoring.

Marner is a big reason we get the Rocket Richard trophy this year.

Marner was +21 and in general plays incredible defense and PK. McDavid scored 105 points and was also +21.

Marner, helped us GET to the playoffs, and he did that in multiple seasons. So regular season does not and cannot count for ZERO. That said he needs to up his game and find a way to win in the playoffs. They all do.

I do not count the first 2 eliminations to Boston/Washington. We were a VERY young team and big underdogs. I do take offense to the last 2 eliminations ... but we did take them both 7 games.

Conner and Leon also got eliminated in 4 straight.

If we trade Marner we will regret it.

Marner got the leafs points in the regular season.......and them promptly choked in the playoffs........again.

The debate isn't whether Marner is a skilled player who can score points. The debate is whether Marner is capable of leading the leafs to success in the playoffs. Right now the preponderance of evidence suggests he can't.

Eddie Olczyk was a big scorer in the regular season but was traded after a bad playoff performance. The difference is that he wasn't making $10M AAV under a salary cap.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I turned it off at that point. Couldn't look at his pouting face and listen to hard it's been any longer. I hope his sponsors saw that and cut ties with him as soon as possible.

I doubt his sponsors are hysterical angry Leafs fans looking for ways to punish him.

 

[egd27]

I doubt his sponsors are hysterical angry Leafs fans looking for ways to punish him.

I was referring to his insensitive comments about how hard not being able to hang out with his friends during the pandemic was, not about his on ice performance.

I would be embarrassed to have someone that self centred representing my company as a spokesman.

 

[leafsfan5]

I’m not really a Marner fan. I think my criticisms of the player are pretty well known. But cooling down after a few days I think unless there’s a sweetheart deal you run back the Big 4 and hope this playoff meltdown pain will propel him forward like it did with a Nylander this time around.

No guarantees but maybe a dialed in Marner is something we want to take advantage of as opposed to letting him learn on the job here only to take off somewhere else. Of course he’s going to be under heavy scrutiny next season.

Only thing I would say is this guy could probably talk to a sports psychologist and hit the gym. I’m not being facetious or joking around. I think Nathan Mackinnon said he had to go see one earlier in his career when he was crippled with self doubt about turning into a bust. Also would love to see him work with Gary Roberts to get stronger and more explosive.

That’s about it.

Yup, I think if we don't go down the avenue of a trade getting him a sports psychologist is a great idea. You can see the pressure is getting to him, he's only 24 and the whole city is out to get him (I know he asked for pressure when signing for 11 million but if we want to keep him we need to help him). After that game 6 puck over the glass penalty he looked like he was going to cry in the box, your star player can't get that down.

A psychologist also helped MAF after his terrible runs in the playoffs if I remember correctly. Now he's exceptional come postseason time. Maybe it works for Mitch

 

[Joey Hoser]

I was referring to his insensitive comments about how hard not being able to hang out with his friends during the pandemic was, not about his on ice performance.

I would be embarrassed to have someone that self centred representing my company as a spokesman.

And you don't think your reaching at all here?

 

[Mickey Marner]

Marner, in his season ending press conference, talked about how tough it was not being able to hang out with his friends during the pandemic.

Think about that for a moment. Think about the doctors, nurses, and EMS workers. Think about the people that haven't worked in a year. Think about people who spent their lives building a business only to have it destroyed. And lastly think about the people who lost their lives, or lost loved ones.

He actually said not being able to hang out with friends was really tough, while collecting millions of dollars.

IMO he is a thoughtless, spoiled, little boy that owes the fans and the people of Toronto an apology for those comments, never mind his poor playoff performance.

He's too solipsistic to care.

 

[Stephen]

Marner, in his season ending press conference, talked about how tough it was not being able to hang out with his friends during the pandemic.

Think about that for a moment. Think about the doctors, nurses, and EMS workers. Think about the people that haven't worked in a year. Think about people who spent their lives building a business only to have it destroyed. And lastly think about the people who lost their lives, or lost loved ones.

He actually said not being able to hang out with friends was really tough, while collecting millions of dollars.

IMO he is a thoughtless, spoiled, little boy that owes the fans and the people of Toronto an apology for those comments, never mind his poor playoff performance.

In modern times, the Boston Bruins dumped Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton and let Torey Krug and Zdeno Chara walk as free agents instead of locking them up to thank you contracts when the balance sheet stopped making sense. There’s a ruthlessness and a culture consideration that they can take a hard line stance on very talented players, not without pain, but maybe live with sub optimal returns but live to fight another day.

The reality here is the Leafs aren’t going down that route. They haven’t been a program based team since the Conn Smythe era and I think the Leafs clearly skew towards star power. When we had Uncle Lou, that way of doing business was clearly not preferred by the fanbase. So they’ll need to get the most out of the star players we have and managing their personalities will be a big part of it.

 

[egd27]

And you don't think your reaching at all here?

Not really

But I believe character and professionalism is important. And I would look for that when seeking someone to represent my business.

IMO Marner has consistently by his words and actions shown that he still is lacking in those qualities.

That presser was just another example.

If you feel differently, you’re free support those businesses he represents

 

[Racer88]

Just my 2 cents:

Marner finished 4th in scoring.

Marner is a big reason we get the Rocket Richard trophy this year.

Marner was +21 and in general plays incredible defense and PK. McDavid scored 105 points and was also +21.

Marner, helped us GET to the playoffs, and he did that in multiple seasons. So regular season does not and cannot count for ZERO. That said he needs to up his game and find a way to win in the playoffs. They all do.

I do not count the first 2 eliminations to Boston/Washington. We were a VERY young team and big underdogs. I do take offense to the last 2 eliminations ... but we did take them both 7 games.

Conner and Leon also got eliminated in 4 straight.

If we trade Marner we will regret it.

Ask the teams still in the playoffs if they would trade regular season for playoffs......not a chance

 

[Joey Hoser]

If you feel differently, you’re free support those businesses he represents

I couldn't possibly take this seriously enough to go out of my way to support Marner's sponsors. Are you f***ing serious?

You've lost your mind, man.

 

[RoadWarrior]

In modern times, the Boston Bruins dumped Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton and let Torey Krug and Zdeno Chara walk as free agents instead of locking them up to thank you contracts when the balance sheet stopped making sense. There’s a ruthlessness and a culture consideration that they can take a hard line stance on very talented players, not without pain, but maybe live with sub optimal returns but live to fight another day.

The reality here is the Leafs aren’t going down that route. They haven’t been a program based team since the Conn Smythe era and I think the Leafs clearly skew towards star power. When we had Uncle Lou, that way of doing business was clearly not preferred by the fanbase. So they’ll need to get the most out of the star players we have and managing their personalities will be a big part of it.

I think the fans are tired of the babysitting and coddling.

 

[egd27]

I couldn't possibly take this seriously enough to go out of my way to support Marner's sponsors. Are you f***ing serious?

You've lost your mind, man.

As I said earlier, you're entitled to your opinion, no reason to hurl insults.

 

[ACC1224]

I was referring to his insensitive comments about how hard not being able to hang out with his friends during the pandemic was, not about his on ice performance.

I would be embarrassed to have someone that self centred representing my company as a spokesman.

It has been hard. My kids haven’t seen their grandparents in a year and a half.

 

[egd27]

It has been hard. My kids haven’t seen their grandparents in a year and a half.

No doubt, but "I haven't been able to hang out with my friends" when he gets to spend every day with team mates, coaches, trainers, mentors, and I would imagine mental health professionals, (never mind the money) seems a lot like ill timed self pity to me. Especially considering what others have endured.

I know you have ties to him, and he's probably a "good kid" but jeez he needs to think about what he says.

 

[myleafs]

Lol dude....very simply, the answers are below:

1) Lets discuss actual realistic scenarios to improve the team. Let's try to avoid trade scenarios that the GM has adamantly gone against and very simply said will NOT happen.

2) If he considered trading him right now, would he have very publicly say that he's NOT trading him? Not only Dubas, but Shanny and Keefe agreed that the core was to stay together their media engagements. Unless all 3 want to look like absolute fools, Marner will not be traded before next season. This is very clear to anyone that isn't living in their own NHL fantasy GM mode.

3) Fair enough. "Reality" may kick at "some point", but I can tell you this will not happen until next offseason at the VERY earliest. Smart managers dont change their mind overnight, especially after publicly stating their firm opinion to the biggest hockey market in the world the day before lol.

Please, let's think before we post so we can engage in a productive discussion that isn't NHL 21 or your fantasy league, or at least pay attention to the press conferences that were conducted yesterday. Mitch Marner will be a leaf for a MINIMUM of one more season.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

or you can leave or just not be part of the discussion, just sayin