Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[Stephen]

Those aren't the only bad things that have happened to him in Toronto. He got held at gunpoint, had his home vandalized three different times, doxxed, harassed on the street, and people have threatened to kill his family. Sure, the team didn't do those things, but they happened here. I wonder if Willie would ride the TTC if people f***ed with him like they do Mitch.

And yet as far as we know he turned down the opportunity to be traded out of Toronto, didn’t request to be moved and has claimed as recently as last year that Leafs players are treated like gods.

Look. At some point, if he can’t live in Toronto, can’t deal with being a Leaf, doesn’t want to play for the organization, there is the door.

And man, what a signature Marner thought that Nylander has to get dragged into it for no apparent reason.

 

[keonsbitterness]

no. I dont take offence or insult anyone.

It's usually commenting about HFboards and the "extremely active content curation".

FWIW, I did miss @thewave

 

[arso40]

It’s too bad you lack reading skills.

No my reading skills aren’t the issue the stupidness you typed is looool sign marner and trade Matthews you sound like an idiot trade a number 1 center for a perennial choker in the playoffs makes zero sense Hes the bad cloud over this team

 

[arso40]

Hard to put up his kind of numbers and be a bad player. He has a lot of faults but he still does have redeming qualities - mainly he puts up a ton of points (and I have been very critical of him on here and am done with him).

Never said he was a bad player Hes a playoff choker and mr empty calories hard pass on a guy who plays the blue line and makes it two on three down low

 

[capfit9]

Kyper said Leafs would have to pay Bennett $12.5M AAV to come here which means Marner probably wants around $16M AAV

 

[Gary Nylund]

That is hilarious. Hang his #16 jersey up?

The guy has done nothing but hamstring the organization to getting to the promise land. Had this guy been the passionate hometown player and taken them to the next level because of his willingness to take less to be home!!!! Then yes I would hang that jersey from the rafters.

But his greediness and selfish "me" persona that he has. No thanks. He and his day can leave town. Not wanted in Toronto.

Hang it in a closet, lock it and throw away the key. Not retired because he was a great player, retired because he was such an annoying little twerp that we never want to see that number again.

 

[seanlinden]

It's really the only way to determine what a player is worth is by his perceived value around the league. Players value can certainly go down after signing.
It's certainly more accurate than some biased people on the Internet, who are detached from the situation, thinks it should be.

While a players cap hit as a % is an important metric... the specific signing date doesn't really matter. As MESS said, it's about the first year cap hit %. Sure, Draisaitl signed a year ago, but he signed that contract knowing the cap was likely to increase. At no point did either Edmonton or Draisaitl feel he was going to get paid $14m on an $88m cap. I believe the projections were around $92m, whereas we are now going to be at $95m.

 

[freshwind]

Hang it in a closet, lock it and throw away the key. Not retired because he was a great player, retired because he was such an annoying little twerp that we never want to see that number again.

i respectfully disagree with this ... give it to quillan or some other young guy that makes the team right away ... i want to see it game 1 next season so it washes the memory away asap ... and then folks can't say "we sure miss #16"
note - this is partly in jest, but only partly

 

[seanlinden]

That is hilarious. Hang his #16 jersey up?

The guy has done nothing but hamstring the organization to getting to the promise land. Had this guy been the passionate hometown player and taken them to the next level because of his willingness to take less to be home!!!! Then yes I would hang that jersey from the rafters.

But his greediness and selfish "me" persona that he has. No thanks. He and his day can leave town. Not wanted in Toronto.

Personally, I think the "hang #16 up" is a bit satirical... and just goes to show how his personality and how he's dealt with contracts has affected his overall perception.

Objectively, he's 5th all time amongst Maple Leafs inpoints with 741 in 657 games, and even when Matthews/Nylander pass him, will be 7th.

Some of the legends he's ahead of - George Armstrong (713 in 1188, number retired), Frank Mahovlich (597 in 720, number retired), Ted Kennedy (560 in 696, number retired). By objective metrics, I think you could reasonably argue that his production is worthy of such an honour. He'd be the only non-active Leaf other than Rick Vaive to go more than a point per game in his career, and not have his number retired.

The sad part for Marner, is that in 15 years he's likely going to be invited to Auston Matthews' number retirement ceremony... and look back and realize that he'll have made somewhere in the neighborhood of $175m over his career... had he chosen to make $160m... it might be a joint ceremony with a couple of rings with a Toronto Maple Leafs logo on his fingers... and be treated "like a god" for life in his hometown.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Reportedly rejected 13.5, counteroffered 15.5, then refused to negotiate further. How exactly should the Leafs have handled that differently?

Where is the report?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Kyper said Leafs would have to pay Bennett $12.5M AAV to come here which means Marner probably wants around $16M AAV

It doesn't mean that at all.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Where is the report?

Twitter, which is never wrong.

 

[scotian1]

Personally, I think the "hang #16 up" is a bit satirical... and just goes to show how his personality and how he's dealt with contracts has affected his overall perception.

Objectively, he's 5th all time amongst Maple Leafs inpoints with 741 in 657 games, and even when Matthews/Nylander pass him, will be 7th.

Some of the legends he's ahead of - George Armstrong (713 in 1188, number retired), Frank Mahovlich (597 in 720, number retired), Ted Kennedy (560 in 696, number retired). By objective metrics, I think you could reasonably argue that his production is worthy of such an honour. He'd be the only non-active Leaf other than Rick Vaive to go more than a point per game in his career, and not have his number retired.

The sad part for Marner, is that in 15 years he's likely going to be invited to Auston Matthews' number retirement ceremony... and look back and realize that he'll have made somewhere in the neighborhood of $175m over his career... had he chosen to make $160m... it might be a joint ceremony with a couple of rings with a Toronto Maple Leafs logo on his fingers... and be treated "like a god" for life in his hometown.

One thing all those players have that Marner does not are Stanley Cups. With Kennedy and Armstrong, they were also great leaders for their teams. Kennedy won 5 Stanley Cups and voted the 2nd greatest Leaf ever. Armstrong w

 

[scotian1]

For whatever reason my previous reply got cut mid post. This was the entire reply. One thing all those players have that Marner does not are Stanley Cups. With Kennedy and Armstrong, they were also great leaders for their teams. Kennedy won 5 Stanley Cups and voted the 2nd greatest Leaf ever. Armstrong won 4 Stanley Cups, Mahovlich won 4 Stanley Cups with the Leafs and another 2 with other teams. This is why they have retired numbers. They were all winners.

 

[58 Years No Cup]

There's not a single player on this Leafs team that I wouldn't trade if we got an interesting package after these NINE years of choking. Hard to believe the court appointed defense Marner has full time over the years. It doesn't make any sense. The guy doesn't like the fans and wants as money as possible and a lot of fans, myself included, don't respect it after what we've seen. Name a playoff series where he was the best player after 10 years. None? I'm fine with the cap space. This opinion would be the same for Matthews/Willy/JT, why Mitch has such full time protectors is beyond me

One guy has paid hometown publicists, the other 2 don't.

 

[Mess]

While a players cap hit as a % is an important metric... the specific signing date doesn't really matter. As MESS said, it's about the first year cap hit %. Sure, Draisaitl signed a year ago, but he signed that contract knowing the cap was likely to increase. At no point did either Edmonton or Draisaitl feel he was going to get paid $14m on an $88m cap. I believe the projections were around $92m, whereas we are now going to be at $95m.

I think the discussion and confusion arises when contracts are signed for different years with different Cap ceilings. So its a way to reference a CH% when there are different variables in play.

In the case of Draisaitl signing in Sept, 2024 and Rantanen at TD in 2025 and Marner next signing your are comparing Apples to direct Apples. All contracts begin July 1st 2005, all will have an identical Cap Hit ceiling for the 2025-26 season so therefore Capo Hit % is all based on the same numbers regardless of signing date.

Whatever Marner gets or should get should be in relation to what Draisaitl and Rantanen his comparable have achieved both regular season and playoffs and Mitch is not even in their league when goals and stats are compared.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

That's not how it works, GM's offer horrible contracts all the time. Just because a player is paid X amount, does not mean that, that's what his value is.

For example the Brad Richards UFA "sweepstakes" he wasn't worth anything near that amount. Or David Clarkson for example. But "The GMs set his value"

Season ticket holder logic is that paying any price is okay as long as you get your toy

 

[58 Years No Cup]

Hang it in a closet, lock it and throw away the key. Not retired because he was a great player, retired because he was such an annoying little twerp that we never want to see that number again.

Want to really see the Marnerphiles whine? Give the 16 to Cowan.

 

[Confucius]

Being "looked upon as... kind of gods" has both advantages and disadvantages, and It's amazing that that quote still gets misunderstood. We both know that he's endured a heck of a lot more than just the coaching abuse and the withholding of earned bonuses (though the latter was actually pretty unprecedented even besides the disrespect of the GM immediately abandoning it for the next guy), and while any one thing may not have driven him away, everything together might.

Gee all things considered it is best for Mitch to move on. Thankfully for all, that’s about to happen.

 

[Legion34]

He hasn't asked the Leafs for any money yet, perhaps that's not his greatest motivator?
I imagine if it were he would have taken the Leafs offer.

If money isn’t his greatest motivation? What is?

He refused a trade before his wife was pregnant. So if he wanted to go somewhere else. He has a NMC. Why not say. This is where I want to go and trade me there now or keep me?

He fought to stay and wants to leave money on the table to go?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Twitter, which is never wrong.

Yes, it does have that reputation. It not as if anyone can just post on it.

 

[Trapper]

Want to really see the Marnerphiles whine? Give the 16 to Cowan.

I was thinking Bennett.

 

[Racer88]

Just watching the cup final game 2 and as much as I despise him Marchand is 3 time the player that Marners is. I will be so glad when that deadbeat is gone

 

[thewave]

Gee all things considered it is best for Mitch to move on. Thankfully for all, that’s about to happen.

Yeah we don't need the Prince Harry of Hockey

 

[Leaf Fans]

Want to really see the Marnerphiles whine? Give the 16 to Cowan.

Cowan would likely take number 7