Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[LeafsFan89]

A lot of people want Marner traded for a #1 22 yearold dman or #1 22 yearold goalie lol. It's not going to happen.

Paying Saros 7-8M (If he plays well) could happen. But at least you get a dman/prospect/picks with Saros. And we need a stable goaltender to allow our system to develop our young goalies anyways.

Secondly, we get something for Marner who a) doesn't show up in the playoffs for us; b) he would walk to FA and we get absolutely nothing; and c) we're not resigning him for 11.5M-13M. If we resign Saros for 7M-8M, we still have 4.5M - 6M cap savings.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

You’ve got it completely backwards.
Those with the irrational hate don’t care about the team.

You and I are on opposite sides of the Marner debate but what has become clear to me is that there are some people (not necessarily pointing to any one person on this board) that may prefer to be right about a player than have that player prove them wrong and succeed...and that's an opinion I just can't get behind.

There's a difference between being pessimistic about a team or player's capabilities and being an outright troll masquerading as a fan of the team. I may not be a good fan, and I very much am not a fan of Mitch Marner, but I have been vocal about how much I wish I were proven wrong at every turn. I'm obviously not directing this at you specifically, but if you'd rather be right than watch the team succeed and prove you wrong, how much of a fan are you really?

 

[Arzak]

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What will it take to UFA sign him ?

You start putting logic into it, Nashville can just wait and sign Marner in UFA !

 

[Mess]

Absolute load of BS. Get over yourself.

Denial is not only a river in Africa.

How many more years of Marner putting up limited points and Leaf early exists do you need to be convinced that Mitch is part of the problem and not the solution?

It's like groundhog day already.

 

[Arzak]

He’s the equivalent of a guy leading the league in home runs, but they were all solo shots in the 9th inning in blowout games

That's his sweat spot. When the game is over and no one on the ice is trying all that hard, he can do it.

 

[BM14]

He’s the equivalent of a guy leading the league in home runs, but they were all solo shots in the 9th inning in blowout games

….in Colorado

 

[Nineteen67]

I love the idea of Saros, but I don't know...I think his smaller stature would be exposed here. Not convinced the team's play in front of him will allow him to carry this team to deep success.

He’s shorter than most goalies, but his legs are thick, like Matthews big, and is as flexible as a gymnast.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

You and I are on opposite sides of the Marner debate but what has become clear to me is that there are some people (not necessarily pointing to any one person on this board) that may prefer to be right about a player than have that player prove them wrong and succeed...and that's an opinion I just can't get behind.

There's a difference between being pessimistic about a team or player's capabilities and being an outright troll masquerading as a fan of the team. I may not be a good fan, and I very much am not a fan of Mitch Marner, but I have been vocal about how much I wish I were proven wrong at every turn. I'm obviously not directing this at you specifically, but if you'd rather be right than watch the team succeed and prove you wrong, how much of a fan are you really?

Marner is an exciting regular season player that makes the secondary market value of someone's season tickets more valuable, and that value is the primary concern of some posters, knowhatimean?

 

[Gary Nylund]

You’ve got it completely backwards.
Those with the irrational hate don’t care about the team.

Most of the "irrationality" ITT comes from people like you who are stubbornly holding on to the notion that Marner is "super crazy elite" (as you must have posted hundreds of times by now).

 

[647Hockey]

Vancouver calls EP Marner the Vancouver version, or Marner light, i say lets wait until he has played in 6 more playoffs. He might even turn it around this playoff.

An even if EP clearly hated the questions , and wanted to kill somone he at least said the words "I need to be better".

But also on a fans note. the fans chanted " Go Petey Go" , would that ever happen here, " Go away Marner Go away!" would be more a Leafy way. Would be interesting to see if a support of that kind would help him while struggeling.

Anyone calling EP a marner in the playoffs is wrong.

EP has made the playoffs twice. His first one years back he did great (better than any Marner playoffs), but this playoffs he's done hardly anything.

Marner has made the playoffs 8 times and has done bad in 5 of them. He's also tracked as a disappearing act in games 5-7 which count the most.

EP made it to the conf finals in his first playoffs and played 17 games going 7g-11a-18pts

 

[Arzak]

Denial is not only a river in Africa.

How many more years of Marner putting up limited points and Leaf early exists do you need to be convinced that Mitch is part of the problem and not the solution?

It's like groundhog day already.

nice old school dis !

Forget his limited points, he cries on the bench, how demoralizing it is for his team... I mean playoff hockey sucks for everyone.. You don't think Pasta would prefer scoring between legs instead of eating hits and fighting Tkachuk ?

It's like that one work buddy that b*tch and moans so much it's harder for everyone.

 

[Sypher04]

I love the idea of Saros, but I don't know...I think his smaller stature would be exposed here. Not convinced the team's play in front of him will allow him to carry this team to deep success.

If this team acquired Saros and didn’t at the same time make significant defensive upgrades it would certainly be a half measure. Can’t see them doing that though.

 

[Tak7]

Yup. It's hard to understand why some people still seem to think that bringing back Marner would be a good thing. Like I'm just at a complete loss for words.

Even if you're convinced that Marner is about to breakout in the playoffs, and that he's too skilled to not eventually come good, this team has tried:

1. Anderson, Campbell, Samsonov, and Woll in net - hasn't worked
2. Have tried a mobile defense including guys like Rielly, Dermott, Gardiner, and Barrie - hasn't worked
3. Have tried more experienced blueliners like Muzzin, Giordano, and Brodie - hasn't worked
4. Have tried mutants on the blueline like Edmundsson & Lyubushkin - hasn't worked
5. Have tried skill & speed in their bottom 6 with Kapanen, Johnsson, and Kerfoot - hasn't worked
6. Have tried grit & size in their bottom 6 with Simmonds, Lafferty, and Acciari - hasn't worked
7. Have tried 'good veterans' to support the core with Thornton and Marlaeu - same story
8. Have tried proven playoff experience to support the core with Domi, Bertuzzi, and ROR - no differences
9. Have tried different coaches, with very different styles in Babcock & Keefe - guess what?
10. Have tried different GMs from Dubas to Treliving - how'd that go?

They've tried literally everything other than tweaking the core.

So even if you are someone like me who is a big fan of Marner, you simply have to just say enough is enough, and that it's time to try something different. Matthews & Nylander are in their prime, and the clock is ticking on a window that is probably already closed, but even if it's still slightly ajar, you simply do not have time to waste "hoping" it comes good again.

It's time for change.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

The only thing this core has laid waste to are our own executives. Absolute graveyard of fired bosses that believed in them.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

IIRC, it was posted on this forum that they have been thru 60 some odd players in the Core Fore's time, and the result has been the same.

Two coaches, 60 some odd players, three GMs, all playoff losers. Only one thing has been constant.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

You’ve got it completely backwards.
Those with the irrational hate don’t care about the team.

There's that word again

 

[myleafs]

Have you guys seen the realistic trade options due to Gary Bettmans horribly ran league? How is trading Marner still a thing?

If he doesn't put up points at least he will help limit the opp to 1-2 goals in elimination games so that the rest of the team can win it offensively. You're not going to find that impact with the tier of players you're diving into by trading him. If Leafs were up 3-1 heading into the 3rd from game 5 and onwards you already know we're not blowing that lead the way we played. Marner going head to head with tough QoC is a significant reason for that. Pasta sucks when he has to face Marners line, for example (Yeah yeah OT, I'm talking overall)

But then again half this place thinks the soft ass Canes can beat the Leafs in a playoff Series so not gonna waste my breath trying to convince people otherwise.

What the actual....f?

 

[Aashir]

What the actual....f?

Now Marner is a defensive specialist

Kampf was on for as many goals as Marner both in series and in game 7

I guess both are the same players ability wise

 

[myleafs]

I'm hesitant to believe Marners offensive failures would translate to all 4 Series in a year we win the cup. He would for sure tear at least 2 Series up if we went that far. When he does suck we can still push 7 games and grind it out to the last second.

For context, Brayden Point had zero points in the last 4 games against the Habs in their Cup win. 2 of the games featured 0 shots. It happens.


Don't know if I can jump on the trade bandwagon with everyone. Feels safer to fix holes around the 3 amigos

So as the games get tougher the deeper you go you really think Marner tears it up?

 

[myleafs]

Covid Cups at that. They've been relatively crap within regular programming.

There are no results for us yet, but ditching any of the 3 stars will most likely set us back even further.

Yep, i just cant get enough of the success we have had with these 3. I mean why would we want to make changes? Isnt just making the playoffs good enough for some people?...sheesh

Vancouver calls EP Marner the Vancouver version, or Marner light, i say lets wait until he has played in 6 more playoffs. He might even turn it around this playoff.

An even if EP clearly hated the questions , and wanted to kill somone he at least said the words "I need to be better".

But also on a fans note. the fans chanted " Go Petey Go" , would that ever happen here, " Go away Marner Go away!" would be more a Leafy way. Would be interesting to see if a support of that kind would help him while struggeling.

Maybe if Marner could actually take responsibility and stop blaming everything but himself people would chant his name in a positive way as well. To be fair he has had that (positive vibes from fans) over his career but the bloom is def off the rose nowadays....all due to his own actions/words imo.

 

[myleafs]

On Overdrive yesterday, O'Neill and Strudwick talked about the playoffs being an exercise in finding out who has the fortitude to compete at this time of year. You can't hide in the playoffs, and guys figure out very quickly who is comfortable in this environment.

Marchand chirping Marner feels like a guy who has a perfect gauge on Marner's appetite for this sort of competition & battle.

The compete that Knies showed is what I want from our top guys.

 

[myleafs]

Simply ask them the question .. "Do you cheer for the name on the back or the crest on the front when you follow the Leafs?"

Their answer will provide clarity in understanding their position..

Marner fans don't care about Team success come playoff time, if it comes at the expense of ineffective playoff performers.

"Some will ask you why can't they have both?" ..but they're simply not willing to accept reality that their favourite player is a passenger not leader during physical playoff hockey and his salary/cap impacts the teams ability to ice a winning team.

I kind of get it.....I was a Kyle wellwood fan....I know I know. He got lambasted on here but I just liked the guy, he thought differently and saw the game differently. I understood what issues people had with him but I couldnt help but root for him. Not that im comparing his stats or talent to Marner but more the unwavering support no matter what the facts are.

 

[Trapper]

The compete that Knies showed is what I want from our top guys.

Shouldn’t even be an option.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There's that word again

That word only means that someone's out of arguments and instead of conceding a point, they call you a hater thinking that they somehow gained the upper hand by slapping this ridiculous label on you.

I think I speak for 99% of us who have been critical of Marner when I say that we don't hate him. However, we do hate that we're spending so much cap space on a guy that as the games get bigger and bigger, his impact gets smaller and smaller. His self-entitled attitude seems to be pretty shitty as well and he seems to take for granted that people should worship the ground he walks on but I can't even hate him for that. Why would I, he's just another punk kid who lacks self-awareness and lord knows there are huge numbers of people like that taking up space nowadays.

I also think he's always trying hard so I give him credit for that. But he's not the kind of player you spend that much cap on if you want to win in the playoffs and if that makes me hater, well than that's just fine. But again, I don't hate the man, just his disappearing act.

So as the games get tougher the deeper you go you really think Marner tears it up?

 

[GoonieFace]

So as the games get tougher the deeper you go you really think Marner tears it up?

I think the use of the word tears is the key point here, and it shouldn’t mean ripping paper