Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Niagara Bill]

It's the problem a few have, they are only capable of blaming one thing, when there are many reasons for a loss of a game or series.

Of course there are many reasons, including coaching and ownership.
One down.
If you honestly watch Mitchy during these playoffs, you know what must be done.
No one questions his skill, and maybe even his desire to personally succeed.
But his willngness to sacrifice for the team, to be coachable, to be a mature leader is all in question. At 7m he is ok, at 10.5 plus. This is a salary cap era. His limitations has no place inside the Leaf financial cap at 10.5.
To extend him at something north of 10.5 would be a huge mistake, just like JT

 

[Confucius]

I wonder if Marner would waive for New Jersey. I’d do a deal centered around Marner for John Marino and the 10th overall pick

Why would he? lol. He’s here for at least 1 more season fans will just have to deal with it. We will get nothing for him.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Are we all finally in agreement, you can't win with 3 or 4 $11 million contracts?

 

[mydnyte]

Migraines are preventable with modern medicine. If you want to give Nylander a pass for chasing 100 points then missing 3 playoffs games go ahead.

No, they absolutely are not. no medicine in the world can fully 'prevent' a migraine. they may be called prevention treatments, but, they are only helpful at best and some have side effect that would make a PRO Hockey player unable to play hockey. (most common side effects of migraine prevention treatments are dizziness and fatigue)
a simple headache is not even preventable, only treatable.
If Nylander has chronic migraines, he is likely already on something(s) ...do you think MLSE doesnt know, and wouldnt have given him a treatment schedule for a chronic condition?

 

[Confucius]

Are we all finally in agreement, you can't win with 3 or 4 $11 million contracts?

Nope, it’s on the coaching. If you think it’s the players why did we fire the coach? Especially when we just gave him a 2 year deal.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Buddy you literally think Willy skipped taking his migraine meds and somehow hoodwinked the medical staff into having him in concussion protocol too, all in some elaborate plan to miss playoff games that he allegedly didn't wanna play. And he's had zero history of missing any playoff games. Do you realize how batshit absurd this would be?

Come back with a bit more logical of an assessment and maybe a conversation can be had.

That's not at all what I was posting thanks for making stuff up. I claimed the staff mis managed his condition.

The time line of events to me played out like this:

Willy has a late season slump and is stuck around 93 points for weeks.

Willy plays out all 82 games to work out the kinks and get to 100 points hopefully but falls short taking 0 opportunity to rest.

Willys pre existing condition acts up during the worst possible time and he misses 3 games and looks rusty in game 4. Leafs go down 3-1 in series due to lack of offense.

Leafs lose again.

Marner is a scrub.

Seems to me that's how things went down.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Are we all finally in agreement, you can't win with 3 or 4 $11 million contracts?

Yes.

But some wish for 13.25M and a 12.5M contracts

 

[ULF_55]

Why would he? lol. He’s here for at least 1 more season fans will just have to deal with it. We will get nothing for him.

Swap contracts --- Draisaitl ... marner

Can Leafs even decide to keep him with a raise?

I don't know how they can do it and make progress?

2025--->

Matthews - 13.2
marner - 11.6
Nylander - 11.5
Tavares - 6.9

I don't see how they build a team around that that would be any better than today?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

No, they absolutely are not. no medicine in the world can fully 'prevent' a migraine. they may be called prevention treatments, but, they are only helpful at best and some have side effect that would make a PRO Hockey player unable to play hockey. (most common side effects of migraine prevention treatments are dizziness and fatigue)
a simple headache is not even preventable, only treatable.
If Nylander has chronic migraines, he is likely already on something(s) ...do you think MLSE doesnt know, and wouldnt have given him a treatment schedule for a chronic condition?

He should probably be on injections if this is a reoccurring issue.

 

[mydnyte]

He should probably be on injections if this is a reoccurring issue.

he likely is (on something) but, nothing can stop the big ones, and they are debilitating.
I've had one that lasted 3 days where pills only made it so i could walk and function, but, nothing that required exertion
the only oddity is, he'd never missed time before. ...maybe it was Keefe sending a (stupid timing) message and actually benching him for his lackluster play the last few games of the season?

 

[IPS]

That's not at all what I was posting thanks for making stuff up. I claimed the staff mis managed his condition.

The time line of events to me played out like this:

Willy has a late season slump and is stuck around 93 points for weeks.

Willy plays out all 82 games to work out the kinks and get to 100 points hopefully but falls short taking 0 opportunity to rest.

Willys pre existing condition acts up during the worst possible time and he misses 3 games and looks rusty in game 4. Leafs go down 3-1 in series due to lack of offense.

Leafs lose again.

Marner is a scrub.

Seems to me that's how things went down.

I'm already seeing the problem, no matter what way I argue back you're just going to default to this plausible deniablity that Nylander just lied to everybody and the medical staff about how bad his condition was so he could randomly take some playoff games off even though he has zero history of doing this ever. Being that this is a figment of your own imagination and there's no way to prove or disprove it (to you), I guess we gotta end the argument here.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I'm already seeing the problem, no matter what way I argue back you're just going to default to this plausible deniablity that Nylander just lied to everybody and the medical staff about how bad his condition was so he could randomly take some playoff games off even though he has zero history of doing this ever. Being that this is a figment of your own imagination and there's no way to prove or disprove it (to you), I guess we gotta end the argument here.

I don't believe Willy has any agenda or tried to take games off on purpose. That's just something you're making up so you can stay on your high horse and flame people who don't agree with your narrative.

 

[34]

? He'd owed less than $1 million in real money after July 1st...he's mighty attractive to a team pushing to make the playoffs.

$11M cap hit. No GM is taking that on.

 

[IPS]

Migraines are preventable with modern medicine. If you want to give Nylander a pass for chasing 100 points then missing 3 playoffs games go ahead.

I don't believe Willy has any agenda or tried to take games off on purpose. That's just something you're making up so you can stay on your high horse and flame people who don't agree with your narrative.

We're you not just saying that I'm "giving Nylander a pass" for what we literally just argued?

I don't have any "narrative" at all. Is this the direction you wanna take things now?


You also deleted the post I quoted here:

How come you did that?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

We're you not just saying that I'm "giving Nylander a pass" for what we literally just argued?

I don't have any "narrative" at all. Is this the direction you wanna take things now?

He should have some insight and maybe rest take medication and precautions going into the most important playoffs series of his life. That's what I'm not giving him a pass on. Missing 3 games due to migraines when players play through broken ankles is weak sauce. Sorry.

"But his vision was blurry!"

My vision was blurry every night watching my team lose again to the Bruins.

You also deleted the post I quoted here:

View attachment 871124

How come you did that?

I didn't delete anything.

 

[IPS]

He should have some insight and maybe rest take medication and precautions going into the most important playoffs series of his life. That's what I'm not giving him a pass on. Missing 3 games due to migraines when players play through broken ankles is weak sauce. Sorry.

I can appreciate you've transitioned your argument into something more honest and straight forward. I don't even know how your other story adds up too, Willy was in pure coast mode the last month of the regular season and wasn't trying very hard for his 100 to begin with. Your arguments are still baseless assertions at the end of the day, like are you arguing that bad luck can't happen or something?

 

[Byron Bitz]

Are we all finally in agreement, you can't win with 3 or 4 $11 million contracts?

Hell no, if we had drafted better from 2017-2020 and had some stud players on elc’s we would have won the Stanley cup.

 

[Mess]

Swap contracts --- Draisaitl ... marner

Can Leafs even decide to keep him with a raise?

I don't know how they can do it and make progress?

2025--->

Matthews - 13.2
marner - 11.6
Nylander - 11.5
Tavares - 6.9

I don't see how they build a team around that that would be any better than today?

My preseason prediction prior to this year was that Leafs GM BT would try and play the Zero Sum game (knowing Shanahan wanted to keep all 4 of the core 4)

Ideally the raises earned by the 3 Amigo's would come out of JT next contract, so that after raises the combined cap would be the same only the #'s per salary of each player change.

I thought AM was going up to $13,250 (which I nailed spot on), but I had projected Willy to get a +$2 mil raise (not > $4 mil) and Mitch would get a slight bump up to $11,250 mil.

As the Cap went up by +$4 mil next year and then +$4.5 mil the following the % of Cap consumed by the core 4 would decline.

However another losing disappointing playoffs it looks like change is coming where keeping all 4 no longer the plan (which I'm personally relieved of as is not a winning strategy of too much Cap in too few players)

That said if any of the players were traded I thought it would be Willy but not it appears Nylander is staying and Marner/JT are the ones on the potential OUT list.

 

[ULF_55]

Migraines are preventable with modern medicine. If you want to give Nylander a pass for chasing 100 points then missing 3 playoffs games go ahead.

Umm ... no they are not.

They may be alleviated, but there is no medicine that can prevent all migraines.

Geez guys ...

 

[ACC1224]

All this migraine nonsense is giving me a headache.
Can we go back to the whacky Marner bashing fest? I need more laughs.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Hell no, if we had drafted better from 2017-2020 and had some stud players on elc’s we would have won the Stanley cup.

They would have to be studs to pick up the slack from the big 4 underperformed in the playoffs.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Umm ... no they are not.

They may be alleviated, but there is no medicine that can prevent all migraines.

Geez guys ...

Alleviated is a much better way to put it. I just think 3 games is a long time to miss due to pain. Karlsson played weeks for the Sens on one ankle. Forsberg was on death's door for the Avs. Lost his spleen.

 

[All Mod Cons]

All this migraine nonsense is giving me a headache.
Can we go back to the whacky Marner bashing fest? I need more laughs.

In your opinion, do you think Marner will be a Leaf first game next season? What's his camp thinking?

 

[ULF_55]

All this migraine nonsense is giving me a headache.
Can we go back to the whacky Marner bashing fest? I need more laughs.

Matthews - 13.2
Nylander - 11.5
marner - 11.4
Tavares - Gio's money

 

[ACC1224]

In your opinion, do you think Marner will be a Leaf first game next season? What's his camp thinking?

I have no idea right now. I'm sure I'll have a better idea at some point this summer.