Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Menzinger]

Yeah Mirtle was on the JD Bunkis show and basically said the Leafs didn't get any good trade offers for Mitch to the point where they didn't even bother asking him to waive because the offers either didn't exist or sucked. So now they're looking at either an extension or letting him hit UFA.

There isn't a market for a small soft winger whose overpaid, wants McDavid money and has 1 year left on an existing overpay, and has a bad playoff track record whose agent is willing to sewer his favorite destination

Which also fits with what we've seen happen with trades in recent years. First line wingers don't return much, basically a 1st + good prospect (but not too prospect) or maybe a 1st + a lesser roster player.

The front office not wanting to be seen taking a loss on a trade, even if less enthused with the player (and admittedly that's not even known if they aren't enthused), likely means the smart bet at this stage is we'll hear talks of an extension sooner than later

 

[Gabriel426]

Which also fits with what we've seen happen with trades in recent years. First line wingers don't return much, basically a 1st + good prospect (but not too prospect) or maybe a 1st + a lesser roster player.

The front office not wanting to be seen taking a loss on a trade, even if less enthused with the player (and admittedly that's not even known if they aren't enthused), likely means the smart bet at this stage is we'll hear talks of an extension sooner than later

Pretty much. Bc the MGT is too afraid to gamble.

Would be interesting to see what would happen if they have a slow start like the Oilers last season.
And see if the top guys can block out the noise and tough it through like the Oilers and end up with a 17games or something Wins streak.

 

[francis246]

Pretty much. Bc the MGT is too afraid to gamble.

Would be interesting to see what would happen if they have a slow start like the Oilers last season.
And see if the top guys can block out the noise and tough it through like the Oilers and end up with a 17games or something Wins streak.

I don’t think it’s that they are afraid to gamble. Marner is still a good player. You want a good return for him. The leafs are in a competitive window. This years free agency was complete ass in terms of forwards. If you move Marner NOW with the forward core as is, there is a zero percent chance we are making the playoffs let alone doing any sort of damage. If there were quality forwards available I think the leafs probably move Marner and don’t think twice. Moving Marner at this stage makes the team significantly worse.

 

[ACC1224]

Fact is he is a Leafs and the Leafs shopped him but can’t get anything done.

If there is a team who is willing to pay like 13mil for MM with a new contract, do you think MM is still a Leafs.

More interesting question, is MM even wants to be a Leafs?

Who was he shopped to? When was it ever said he was shopped?

From everything we know he wants to be here.

Again you don’t seem to know what a fact is.

 

[Gabriel426]

Who was he shopped to? When was it ever said he was shopped?

From everything we know he wants to be here.

Again you don’t seem to know what a fact is.

There are enough reports that the Leafs shopped him and couldn’t get anything good in return.

I don’t think it’s that they are afraid to gamble. Marner is still a good player. You want a good return for him. The leafs are in a competitive window. This years free agency was complete ass in terms of forwards. If you move Marner NOW with the forward core as is, there is a zero percent chance we are making the playoffs let alone doing any sort of damage. If there were quality forwards available I think the leafs probably move Marner and don’t think twice. Moving Marner at this stage makes the team significantly worse.

Stamkos, Marchessault, to lesser extend DeBrusk, Reinhardt(even though he wasn’t leaving), Lindholm…
They are not as talented as MM but with their cap and style, are much better fit with the Leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

There are enough reports that the Leafs shopped him and couldn’t get anything good in return.


Stamkos, Marchessault, to lesser extend DeBrusk, Reinhardt(even though he wasn’t leaving), Lindholm…
They are not as talented as MM but with their cap and style, are much better fit with the Leafs.

I must have missed it. Shirley you must remember what team it was, seems like big news. Can you link one?

 

[francis246]

There are enough reports that the Leafs shopped him and couldn’t get anything good in return.


Stamkos, Marchessault, to lesser extend DeBrusk, Reinhardt(even though he wasn’t leaving), Lindholm…
They are not as talented as MM but with their cap and style, are much better fit with the Leafs.

Marner is better than every one of those guys you mentioned. You wanna pay Stamkos 8-10 million to come here at 34 years old? Lindholm is overrated IMO and he’s also already 30 years old. Marchessault is also a small winger. Debrusk is a good player but he’s not Marner and his contract will not age well. None of those contracts were good and that’s the problem. It’s not NHL 24. You can’t just look at a player and be like add him to the team. Long term ramifications of signing bad contracts has to be considered.

 

[Aashir]

He’s gonna be a leaf, probably for 8 more years after next one

The team will run the same first round exit team back. The same guys who defend Marner will continue to do so.

IF it’s true that the Marner offers were laughable, I’d have still taken them. I just don’t think we can win with this group, and marners the most obvious one out of them all. I am a bit hesitant that treliving would waste the money saved from the trade so we might be screwed either way

I hate pinning this back to the RFA deals, but they just continue to screw us. Each of the core 3 should still be on their RFA deals and making less. Idk if that would’ve made a difference as they still underperform their talent, but maybe we could’ve pulled out a great signing and that piece could’ve been apart of the core.

Marner is better than every one of those guys you mentioned. You wanna pay Stamkos 8-10 million to come here at 34 years old? Lindholm is overrated IMO and he’s also already 30 years old. Marchessault is also a small winger. Debrusk is a good player but he’s not Marner and his contract will not age well. None of those contracts were good and that’s the problem. It’s not NHL 24. You can’t just look at a player and be like add him to the team. Long term ramifications of signing bad contracts has to be considered.

IMO you also have to look at our “window”, if it exists

I have that as the next 4 years. Once Matthews deal is up, I don’t expect him to be the current caliber of player he is and ditto for nylander in 4 years, some level of regression is going to happen and either we are going to have a draft steal or the team will take a step back.

Someone like Marchessault would still be effective during that timeframe and he makes 5.5 currently, could’ve maybe gotten him for 6-6.5. That still leaves another 5 million to grab another player.

 

[francis246]

He’s gonna be a leaf, probably for 8 more years after next one

The team will run the same first round exit team back. The same guys who defend Marner will continue to do so.

IF it’s true that the Marner offers were laughable, I’d have still taken them. I just don’t think we can win with this group, and marners the most obvious one out of them all. I am a bit hesitant that treliving would waste the money saved from the trade so we might be screwed either way

I hate pinning this back to the RFA deals, but they just continue to screw us. Each of the core 3 should still be on their RFA deals and making less. Idk if that would’ve made a difference as they still underperform their talent, but maybe we could’ve pulled out a great signing and that piece could’ve been apart of the core.

The only think in hindsight I would have changed was not signing Tavares. Continuing with the rebuild for one more year and hoping that Pietrangelo would hit the UFA Market would have been way better. That was the one mistake they made.

He’s gonna be a leaf, probably for 8 more years after next one

The team will run the same first round exit team back. The same guys who defend Marner will continue to do so.

IF it’s true that the Marner offers were laughable, I’d have still taken them. I just don’t think we can win with this group, and marners the most obvious one out of them all. I am a bit hesitant that treliving would waste the money saved from the trade so we might be screwed either way

I hate pinning this back to the RFA deals, but they just continue to screw us. Each of the core 3 should still be on their RFA deals and making less. Idk if that would’ve made a difference as they still underperform their talent, but maybe we could’ve pulled out a great signing and that piece could’ve been apart of the core.


IMO you also have to look at our “window”, if it exists

I have that as the next 4 years. Once Matthews deal is up, I don’t expect him to be the current caliber of player he is and ditto for nylander in 4 years, some level of regression is going to happen and either we are going to have a draft steal or the team will take a step back.

Someone like Marchessault would still be effective during that timeframe and he makes 5.5 currently, could’ve maybe gotten him for 6-6.5. That still leaves another 5 million to grab another player.

Did you just tell me you believe that Marchessault would be an effective player at 37 making 6.5 million? You’re joking right? Marchessault is 33, he’s out of his prime. He’s not gonna be worth that contract in 1 year, let alone two. Marchessault is a career 25 goal scorer. He had a break out year this year in goals. He ain’t gonna score 40 again most likely.

 

[Antropovsky]

He pushes up against the defender as they arrive at the puck, and Marner attempts to block the pass up the boards. I thought you would have at least watched the video.

You're the one convincing yourself that some common, nothing play is "egregious".

Engaging from the outside position is not "giving possession to your opponent". It's trying to gain possession. He tries to block the pass up the boards - which he generally does quite well - and while that didn't work this time, his choice allowed him to pin his opponent and get ahead of him getting back. You'd think if one was resorting to clip hunting, they'd have an actual clip of something bad. But hey, if not getting crushed into the boards for no reason at every opportunity is your line in the sand, then good luck with your 0 NHL players.

So this is what you see on that play:

1) Marner strategically chose to give up first on puck to "engage from outside position"
2) Marner makes an attempt to block the pass up the boards
3) Marner pins the defender preventing him from pursuing the puck and allowing Marner to be first defensively up the ice.

This might be the most absolutely ridiculous thing I've ever read on this board.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Any examples of people doing that? You seem to have a pretty vivid imagination

I can certainly find examples of people being called stupid or idiotic for having an opposite opinion

 

[Aashir]

The only think in hindsight I would have changed was not signing Tavares. Continuing with the rebuild for one more year and hoping that Pietrangelo would hit the UFA Market would have been way better. That was the one mistake they made.

Tbh one could argue you don’t even need hindsight.

We had kadri, he made like 5 million, he gave like 60 points and sometimes played with not too great linemates. I know “when that level of player hits the open market you don’t think”, but I think you do. We had our cornerstone 1C, we had our 2 wingers and our future 1D. Kadri was more than enough as a 2C and we just didn’t believe that was enough. This was before the second suspension too so it’s not like he was a liability in that aspect at that point

As for me, with hindsight I’d probably move nylander for a defender in 18-19. Whether pesche or paryako or petro was available I’d have tried my hardest to do it. Our offence was more than good enough to win, imagine a shutdown pairing of muzzin - petro/pesche instead of Zaitsev. Or running 3 incredibly strong LHD or Rielly muzzin paryako. Nylander has become an incredible player but at the time was a luxury not really needed, we had the big 3 + kapanen, kadri, johnsson. We had our elite G and I think we could’ve gone all the way if we made that move

 

[ACC1224]

I can certainly find examples of people being called stupid or idiotic for having an opposite opinion

Probably I’ve seen a ton of that. . I guess that’s your way of not offering any proof on the other thing?

 

[Aashir]

Did you just tell me you believe that Marchessault would be an effective player at 37 making 6.5 million? You’re joking right? Marchessault is 33, he’s out of his prime. He’s not gonna be worth that contract in 1 year, let alone two. Marchessault is a career 25 goal scorer. He had a break out year this year in goals. He ain’t gonna score 40 again most likely.

effective doesn’t mean another 40 goal season. But yes, I expect him to be a 25-30 goal scorer for another 2-3 years. To be worth 5.5 as a UFA, he’d need to give like 45-55 points. That’s not really too high of an expectation considering he’s probably playing L2 and pp1

 

[Arzak]

good edit, definitely worth adding to the original post

Thanks, it's good seeing you finally admit Mitch is worthless . Next time agree louder. This way I have to read between the lines - seeing as you have nothing to add, just happy about the edit

 

[Antropovsky]

You know when James Mirtle is finally calling you out for your soft non physical play, the rest of the world already knows.





While it is an affront to call any NHL player 'soft', since hockey is such an overtly physical game, Marner isn't doing himself any favours.

The most shocking part of this "pulling the chute" play is how close Marner is to the puck and how far the Bruin player is from it. This isn't a close race at all. If someone (with more skills than me) could pause the video at the 6 second mark and post the photo. It really shows the fear of being hit Marner has. It goes to show that during playoff action, priority #1 for him is to not be hit and hes afraid of the physical play. Not to mention their is video evidence of him doing the very same thing 4 playoffs ago.

Absolutely mind boggling and I'd be disgusted if I was his teammates...especially given how much cap% he takes up.

 

[DarkKnight]

Fact is he is a Leafs and the Leafs shopped him but can’t get anything done.

If there is a team who is willing to pay like 13mil for MM with a new contract, do you think MM is still a Leafs.

More interesting question, is MM even wants to be a Leafs?

You just made that up, fact is?

 

[Hellcat]

 

[ACC1224]

View attachment 893419

He may still be moved.

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner is better than every one of those guys you mentioned. You wanna pay Stamkos 8-10 million to come here at 34 years old? Lindholm is overrated IMO and he’s also already 30 years old. Marchessault is also a small winger. Debrusk is a good player but he’s not Marner and his contract will not age well. None of those contracts were good and that’s the problem. It’s not NHL 24. You can’t just look at a player and be like add him to the team. Long term ramifications of signing bad contracts has to be considered.

Leafs should be in Win Now mode and not let’s build for 3-4yrs from now. They should have the mentality of Cup or Bust instead of we were close, good lessons, we were right there, just need to get a bounce….to the Second round mentality.

Also I never said they are better players than MM. I said due to their cap, they are better fit on the Leafs. Like would the Leafs be better as a team with DeBrusk and Marchessault(11mil total) than MM.
I believe they are as those two can play with AM and form the top line. Then have Domi with JT and McMann on another, with Holmberg, Knies and Willie.

I must have missed it. Shirley you must remember what team it was, seems like big news. Can you link one?

Or just think all the trade talks were fake news.

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs should be in Win Now mode and not let’s build for 3-4yrs from now. They should have the mentality of Cup or Bust instead of we were close, good lessons, we were right there, just need to get a bounce….to the Second round mentality.

Also I never said they are better players than MM. I said due to their cap, they are better fit on the Leafs. Like would the Leafs be better as a team with DeBrusk and Marchessault(11mil total) than MM.
I believe they are as those two can play with AM and form the top line. Then have Domi with JT and McMann on another, with Holmberg, Knies and Willie.


Or just think all the trade talks were fake news.

What trade talks?

 

[Gabriel426]

What trade talks?

Just look back at this thread and you will find those links.

Also stop acting like MM was not in trade discussions since Game 7 of the playoffs against the Bruins.

You are a lot better poster than that.

 

[Kazparov]

Almost at 10k posts boys. Keep up the good work!

 

[myleafs]

Absence of one thing is not necessarily confirmation of somethign else, any mature adult can understand this very simple truth.

I definitely agree with the bolded.....not sure why the last part was needed

 

[ACC1224]

Just look back at this thread and you will find those links.

Also stop acting like MM was not in trade discussions since Game 7 of the playoffs against the Bruins.

You are a lot better poster than that.

I don’t know that at all. That’s why I’m hoping to see some proof but it seems tough to find.