Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Dekes For Days]

You are right the agent did not state a specific amount only that he should have asked for more given Matthews’s contract. The agent even said he was being “lowballed.”

Agents (especially Ferris) always claim they're being lowballed and pump up their clients, and by all accounts, the negotiations didn't get much further than initial discussions anyway, because Marner wanted to bet on himself and play out the year.

 

[Antropovsky]

This has been talked about ad nauseum. But both Nylander and Dubas have stated on the record it was Nylander who reached out at that last minute looking to get a deal done. And the deal they ultimately agreed to was between Ehlers and Pastrnak so this idea that we caved to Nylander’s demands has never been well supported. Especially so when the reporting said originally that nylander wanted $8M

As for Marner, we have conflicting reports as to whether that 8.5Mx8 proposed deal actually existed or not. Some say it did, others have said Marner wanted to bet on himself and play through the final ELC year - especially once Tavares was signed and it was pitched that he and Marner would be linemates.

Definitely should have locked up Marner first so he couldn’t compare himself to Matthews but if Marner did in fact refuse to extend early then that takes some of that decision out of the team’s hands.

8.5 million after a 69 point second season? Ehlers got 6 million the year before after a 64 point 2nd year at the beginning of 2017. What made Marner worth 2.5 million more per season than Ehlers?

 

[hullsy47]

First was Tavares - it inflated everyone’s salary

dubas made them all rich

 

[PromisedLand]

July 1st coming up soon.

Monday is just around corner

Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na
Hey Hey Hey

Good Bye

 

[HamiltonNHL]

dubas made them all rich

Wasn’t his money !

Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na
Hey Hey Hey

Mitch must be excited. To meet his new team.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

shanahan made them all rich

Fixed that for you. He has kept doing it since Dubas left and will continue doing it until he’s gone too. Strap in for the 12.5x8 Marner deal and the 7x4 Tavares deals.

 

[Kazparov]

Lebrun on Overdrive today making it sound like Marner is not a likelihood at least until late summer.

Gotta get past the free agency period where teams who miss out of scoring options realize MM may be on the table.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Lebrun on Overdrive today making it sound like Marner is not a likelihood at least until late summer.

Gotta get past the free agency period where teams who miss out of scoring options realize MM may be on the table.

Lool. And then we'll hear it will be before training camp. Then we'll hear it will be at the deadline. Then he will be signed and we'll hear that it's actually a discount because XYZ. And then we'll hear that Tavares' cap space will be used to improve the team. He's not getting moved unless the Leafs have their socks blown off AND it's a good team that will pay Marner what he wants. No good team will pay that. But there is a team that THINKS it's good and will pay Marner what he wants...

 

[ToneDog]

Lool. And then we'll hear it will be before training camp. Then we'll hear it will be at the deadline. Then he will be signed and we'll hear that it's actually a discount because XYZ. And then we'll hear that Tavares' cap space will be used to improve the team. He's not getting moved unless the Leafs have their socks blown off AND it's a good team that will pay Marner what he wants. No good team will pay that. But there is a team that THINKS it's good and will pay Marner what he wants...

That would be more embarrassing than Marner in the playoffs.

 

[Antropovsky]

Caving to Nylander was Dubas first big mistake. Not accepting Marners offer (8.5x8) was the 2nd one. Signing Matthews before Marner was the 3rd one.

Why was marner worth 8.5 after a 69 point season? I've been asking you this question for years and you never respond. But you keep bringing it up. Any comparables?

 

[Petrus]

Agents (especially Ferris) always claim they're being lowballed and pump up their clients, and by all accounts, the negotiations didn't get much further than initial discussions anyway, because Marner wanted to bet on himself and play out the year.

Dave Feschuk: Maple Leafs have lowballed Mitch Marner in contract talks, agent says

Matthews contract “great for all players,” Ferris says, and might guarantee Marner won’t be signed at a discount price.

www.thestar.com

That’s one of the articles related to the negotiations. This article suggest there were substantive negotiations that took place:

So far they’ve been trying to lowball (Marner),” Ferris said. “That’s the reason we’ve come to this point.”

The whole notion that Marner was betting on himself is false. Marner wanted more given what Matthews received.

Ultimately it looks like Dubas capitulated.

 

[notDatsyuk]

But that’s what I’m saying, Matthews was the first to rinse the team not Marner. IMO either Matthews and Marner should have been signed to matching 8x10 deals, just like Eichel. Or Nylander and Marner to matching deals at like 8.5 or 9. Matthews wasn’t head and shoulders better than Marner during the ELC years, Marner out produced him in total points which is why we ended up in this situation. Matthews has separated himself now but their first post ELC contract should have been similar just like Kane and Toews.

I agree - Matthews should have been signed for 9-10, and Marner and Nylander for about 7-8 each (probably less as they were all still RFAs).

The first and biggest mistake was signing an unnecessary 2C for $11. That was what not only started the overpayment cycle, but led to the ruin of our cap situation.

 

[Gabriel426]

I agree - Matthews should have been signed for 9-10, and Marner and Nylander for about 7-8 each (probably less as they were all still RFAs).

The first and biggest mistake was signing an unnecessary 2C for $11. That was what not only started the overpayment cycle, but led to the ruin of our cap situation.

IT started with Marleau and it just never stopped.

 

[JustYourRegularGuy]

I agree - Matthews should have been signed for 9-10, and Marner and Nylander for about 7-8 each (probably less as they were all still RFAs).

The first and biggest mistake was signing an unnecessary 2C for $11. That was what not only started the overpayment cycle, but led to the ruin of our cap situation.

Except that when he was signed Tavares was clearly a first-line C and enjoyed full-UFA status so that came at a premium. Back then, he was a proven 35-goal scorer and PPG center on an Isles team that didn't score that many goals whilst also being right in his prime at 28 years old for the 2018 season.

The signing definitely wasn't cheap (slight overpay actually) and it indeed had an impact on how little money we later had to round-out our team, but it isn't the biggest contributing factor to our depth problems, far from it in my opinion.

The crux of the matter is that while Matthews had shown throughout the '18-'19 season that he was a superior player to Tavares and more important to the team, in the summer of 2019 he was also under control for 4 more RFA years when he re-signed with us. A fact that should have massively lowered the AAV of his deal vs. an older and much more proven Tavares.

Dubas should not have caved-in and given him all that money on only a 5-year deal, buying only a single UFA year. Period.

On a 5-year deal, with 4 full RFA years, Matthews shouldn't have gotten more than say $9-9.5M/year.

And following that logic, Marner shouldn't have made a dime over $8.5-9M.

We coddled our stars way too much, and paid for it dearly depth-wise, and on defense/goaltending.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806558054248259994

35:45 - EF thinks Leafs bout to make Marner a contract offer.

 

[JustYourRegularGuy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806558054248259994

35:45 - EF thinks Leafs bout to make Marner a contract offer.

As they should. The guy is a very good player despite criticisms (warranted criticisms mind).

He has screwed the team over in contract negotiations, alongside Matthews, but he is still worth signing vs. losing him for free or trading him and not getting back that much value in a package for a bonafide regular-season superstar.

The sad thing is that running back Mat/Mar/Nyl is actually the most logical thing to do, barring getting a great package for Mitch.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

As they should. The guy is a very good player despite criticisms (warranted criticisms mind).

He has screwed the team over in contract negotiations, alongside Matthews, but he is still worth signing vs. losing him for free or trading him and not getting back that much value in a package for a bonafide regular-season superstar.

The sad thing is that running back Mat/Mar/Nyl is actually the most logical thing to do, barring getting a great package for Mitch.

It's only been that way since July 1 2023 and after signing Nylander. They weaseled themselves into this position because they never wanted to trade any of them and still don't.

 

[Arzak]

Caving to Nylander was Dubas first big mistake. Not accepting Marners offer (8.5x8) was the 2nd one. Signing Matthews before Marner was the 3rd one.

Can we trade him now?

Mitch is not worth 8.5x8 years as RFA. I can't blame anyone for not jumping that gun.

 

[Petrus]

As they should. The guy is a very good player despite criticisms (warranted criticisms mind).

He has screwed the team over in contract negotiations, alongside Matthews, but he is still worth signing vs. losing him for free or trading him and not getting back that much value in a package for a bonafide regular-season superstar.

The sad thing is that running back Mat/Mar/Nyl is actually the most logical thing to do, barring getting a great package for Mitch.

It’s sunk-cost fallacy.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This article suggest there were substantive negotiations that took place:

No, it doesn't. It just suggests that they didn't agree on price. It also confirms that negotiations were put off until after the playoffs, and notes the bonus screwup by Lou impacting things. Doesn't say a single thing about any offers put forth by Marner, let alone at the price being suggested. If anything, it contradicts the idea that Marner made an offer like that.

Marner wanted more given what Matthews received.

Marner wanted more before Matthews received anything. He got it by playing out the year and earning it.

Ultimately it looks like Dubas capitulated.

No, it looks like Marner successfully bet on himself, and they signed a contract - consistent with post-ELC contract history - that compromised on what both sides wanted.

 

[LeafGrief]

The sad thing is that running back Mat/Mar/Nyl is actually the most logical thing to do, barring getting a great package for Mitch.

Why?

This is actually an enormous claim, considering that we've been running it back for years now and we've only won a single round. Do you actually think that getting Tavares's 11m off the books (much of which will now be eaten by raises to Matthews, Nylander, and possibly Marner) makes that much of a difference? After eight years of looking for "the right recipe" are we still really just looking for the right mix of defence and depth players? Does a rising cap of 5-10% more space (that all other teams get) put us that much closer?

No. This core doesn't work as a group. Whether it's the cap allocation, the personalities, their horoscopes or whatever, they just can't get it done. Running it back is illogical, and running it back should be so toxic of an idea that we choose to massively lose a trade or even let Marner walk as a UFA so as to avoid running it back. Change requires courage, but may lead to results.

 

[LeafsFan89]

Lool. And then we'll hear it will be before training camp. Then we'll hear it will be at the deadline. Then he will be signed and we'll hear that it's actually a discount because XYZ. And then we'll hear that Tavares' cap space will be used to improve the team. He's not getting moved unless the Leafs have their socks blown off AND it's a good team that will pay Marner what he wants. No good team will pay that. But there is a team that THINKS it's good and will pay Marner what he wants...

JT's 11M goes towards a second line center (5-6M), Knies (2-4M?) and other RFAs we have. We're still going to be the exact same team lol.

As they should. The guy is a very good player despite criticisms (warranted criticisms mind).

He has screwed the team over in contract negotiations, alongside Matthews, but he is still worth signing vs. losing him for free or trading him and not getting back that much value in a package for a bonafide regular-season superstar.

The sad thing is that running back Mat/Mar/Nyl is actually the most logical thing to do, barring getting a great package for Mitch.

I disagree. If we don't trade him, I want him to walk next year and we get the cap space back. JT can go too (I want a culture change, and he is horrible with his "lessons").

 

[Arzak]

Quite obvious you don't know who Keller is.

Quite obvious you still don't know who Mitch Marner is.

Confusing, consider how much you post to support him.

 

[Petrus]

No, it doesn't. It just suggests that, according to the agent trying to manipulate the media narrative at an opportune time and extract as much money as possible out of the team, previous offers by the team weren't enough. It also confirms that negotiations were put off until after the playoffs, and notes Marner's performance in that 3rd season and that the bonus screwup by Lou was impacting things. Doesn't say a single thing about any offers put forth by Marner, let alone at the price being suggested.

Marner wanted more before Matthews received anything. He got it by playing out the year and earning it.

No, it looks like Marner successfully bet on himself, and they signed a contract - consistent with post-ELC contract history - that compromised on what both sides wanted.

I provided you with comments by Ferris where states negotiations took place and that Marner being lowballed led to “this point” (postponed negotiations after the playoffs).

You are being intellectually dishonest when suggesting no negotiations took place prior to Matthews signing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Quite obvious you still don't know who Mitch Marner is.

Confusing, consider how much you post to support him.

The apparent blindness, the inability of some peoplpe to digest the reality of what playoff Marner is is baffling. I mean I understand the concept of denial and so on but still, I can't say I've seen anything like this in my 50+ years of following pro sports.