Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

[Trapper]

Great. Surgery by grenade. Perfect storm of shit then.

Now I don’t mean everything has to change.
Your original post was all Marner’s fault.
I am saying no. He is currently up there in an A. B. C. accountability scale though.

But just doing the same thing over again doesn’t seem the right way to go. That whole list needs to be evaluated at this point.
5 times the failure there must be an evaluation.
I think a core tweak, heavy salary must be looked at.

 

[justashadowof]

With regards to Marner (and Matthews and Tavares), when so much money is concentrated into a single player his playoff performance HAS to be elite for the team to win. It's almost too simple. 3 elite forwards paid elite money then nothing short of an elite performance from them can create playoff success even against weak opponents and while playing mostly sound defense. Quite frankly the Leafs were lucky to get any production out of players like Spezza and Kerfoot. Heck, Nylander performed above grade. It's clearly a bad formula. A team with lineup depth could easily weather a Matthews not scoring enough in a 7 games series. Who was supposed to pick up the scoring for Matthews? His playmaking winger? His geriatric teammates?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’d agree although their impact was pretty much the same.

Ya Matthews had a weirdly low SH%, I doubt we'll ever see that happen again.

It is irrelevant. My point is the evidence. Had Marner not been on that line and Matthew's put up the same numbers, would that convince you something is amuck?

I think Matthews played better, that's not irrelevant to me. Not sure what you mean by evidence or amuck or why that would change anything. Anyhow that's just my eye test, I don't expect everyone to agree, we all have our own opinions.

 

[Gallagbi]

Matthew's wasn't shooting with blanks and neither was Marner. They got shut down. That is a systematic issue...not a player issue.

Felt like Marner had a lot more clean chances than Matthews to me. Matthews did more of the digging and distributing than normal, which isn't ideal.

There's a lot less heat on Marner if he finishes 1-2 of his prime chances. Thinking back it's pretty crazy to think he had Price down and beat 3 times and didn't score. That doesn't even include the times he had him moving for good chances like like 2on1 with Hyman

 

[Notsince67]

Who cares it is about hockey skills .. his stride length is very short and he can't get to next straight line speed gear most other guys can in playoffs .. and he is weak physically so he can't use power to break through traps .. so bottom line he is trying his damndest but he just can't make it happen

It does matter.He scored goals against better teams in the playoffs when he was smaller and weaker. Stop with da bullshit

 

[Stinger8]

It does matter.He scored goals against better teams in the playoffs when he was smaller and weaker. Stop with da bullshit

He has 5 goals in 32 playoff games. That's a 13 goal pace over 82 games and he has the 7th highest cap hit Stop with da bullshit.

Mitchell Marner Stats and News

Rankings

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It does matter.He scored goals against better teams in the playoffs when he was smaller and weaker. Stop with da bullshit

Yes he did when he played down in lineup on weaker lines against weaker slower competition .. I forget more about hockey then any of you spreadsheet guys who never laced em up .. that is why i texted Keefer to move him down lineup again to free him up against slower guys like himself ..

 

[ToneDog]

Yes he did when he played down in lineup on weaker lines against weaker slower competition .. I forget more about hockey then any of you spreadsheet guys who never laced em up .. that is why i texted Keefer to move him down lineup again to free him up against slower guys like himself ..

$11m winger needs to play against bottom 6 players in playoffs. Yikes.

 

[Notsince67]

Yes he did when he played down in lineup on weaker lines against weaker slower competition .. I forget more about hockey then any of you spreadsheet guys who never laced em up .. that is why i texted Keefer to move him down lineup again to free him up against slower guys like himself ..

I played plenty and you certainly have demonstrated any real knowledge.
Here is a tip though. The game ain't rocket science. That is why they dont have graduate degrees in hockey. It would take you longer to learn statistics than hockey subject matter so I wouldn't pull an appeal to authority.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I played plenty and you certainly have demonstrated any real knowledge.
Here is a tip though. The game ain't rocket science. That is why they dont have graduate degrees in hockey. It would take you longer to learn statistics than hockey subject matter so I wouldn't pull an appeal to authority.

you are right about that hockey is a very simple game .. and i leave da stats up to my daughter who is an actuary .. no interest in getting involved in da math at this stage of my life

 

[Mess]

$11m winger needs to play against bottom 6 players in playoffs. Yikes.

Marner's best playoffs came early on when he played a sheltered role playing 3rd line with JVR and Bozak and then his 2nd year with Marleau and Kadri.

This was with Babcock as coach and keeping Matthews and Marner apart makes them harder to defend against.

If Keefe would clue into this he could with Dubas build a top 9 strategy and use Matthews, Marner and JT & Nylander on 3 different lines and a strong top 9. So it wouldn't be so much about playing Marner against bottom 6, but using a deep team and use your top 3 lines to create opposition mismatches.

If you put all your eggs in one basket then Matthews will get the opposition best defensive player by default and then they get a 2-1 shutdown deal by playing Marner as his wingman. One Philip Danault and a shutdown D pairing is all you need to defend them. Checking 3 scoring lines makes the opposition run out of checkers.

Hyman -- Matthews -- XXXX
XXXX ----- Tavares ----- Nylander
XXXX ----- XXXX ------- Marner

Limit 1 X $11 mil player per line, spread the wealth and build 3 scoring lines with defensive awareness. 1 checker + 1 playmaker + 1 scorer per line.

 

[egd27]

Matthew's wasn't shooting with blanks and neither was Marner. They got shut down. That is a systematic issue...not a player issue.

I tend to agree.

IMO Keefe should have taken a page out of the Pens SC teams and given 34, 16 & 88 their own line each. We already knew the Habs couldn't stop 88, so let them worry about 34 and 16 separately instead of together.

Marner has produced with everyone he has played with except 34 in the playoffs, but Keefe just kept running the same play.

Not an NHL coach.

 

[weems]

Here you go. If Marner was playing for the Stars, he would have been ripped to shreds by the owner or traded asap...your $11 million winger in a game 7, folks. Even though he knew exactly where the puck was, he pretended to skate towards it, swivels to not get it in fear of getting hit. I'm sorry, but that's a con man who had gotten his money and doesn't care. You wonder what else he is cheating on.

This play is basically a microcosm of why we struggle in the playoffs and most likely why it will continue.

This also isnt just a Mitch issue as I've seen Matthews pull that exact same play many times as well as Nylander.

It's often so subtle that it can be missed. Pulling up or intentionally taking a bad route to the puck so they can avoid taking a hit.

When people talk about "grit" for many its not about getting players that are tough but moreso a mindset towards playing a certain way and that involves taking hits to make plays, going to the dangerous areas with aggression and finishing checks every single shift.

Now that teams have player tracking you should easily be able to see an interesting trend. I would bet that if you highlighted "dangerous" areas on the ice (behind the net, front of the net, side boards) and tracked how much certain teams slowed up while entering those spots, our team would rank near the top while most of the teams doing well in the playoffs would rank near the bottom and their speed doesnt fluctuate that much.

Until we see our core 4 flush these habits out of their games and that means every single game, every single shift, we'll continue to lose to teams that arent taking those shortcuts.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

So Marner doesnt get pucks now. Lay off the blow.

HE is a scared child.

 

[Stephen]

It does matter.He scored goals against better teams in the playoffs when he was smaller and weaker. Stop with da bullshit

On a third line playing with Phil Kessel’s former line mates. Maybe the answer is he shouldn’t be played Ryan Suter minutes and run out there with Matthews like they’re the second coming of Kariya and Selanne.

 

[m1ker]

We might as well dump him now before he loses even more value. Unless we go another year without fans in the building he's going to get boo'd every mistake he makes. Marner's strength is making high risk passes so i can't see this ending well..

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Felt like Marner had a lot more clean chances than Matthews to me. Matthews did more of the digging and distributing than normal, which isn't ideal.

There's a lot less heat on Marner if he finishes 1-2 of his prime chances. Thinking back it's pretty crazy to think he had Price down and beat 3 times and didn't score. That doesn't even include the times he had him moving for good chances like like 2on1 with Hyman

The part that pisses me off about those chances is that Marner took that extra second to make it look pretty instead of slamming at it like Hyman would. Had he just flicked it towards the net...chances are one of them goes in.

 

[m1ker]

I tend to agree.

IMO Keefe should have taken a page out of the Pens SC teams and given 34, 16 & 88 their own line each. We already knew the Habs couldn't stop 88, so let them worry about 34 and 16 separately instead of together.

Marner has produced with everyone he has played with except 34 in the playoffs, but Keefe just kept running the same play.

Not an NHL coach.

Lmao and what does Keefe do. He doubles down and stacks Nylander with them to play right into the hands of MTL. What's left? The remaining roster that has 0 chemistry together now that the lines are all messed up. This is the decision he makes when it's a tie game and MTL is facing elimination.

 

[tronoleaf]

10.96 mil.

Refused to play in a different spot on the PP.

Trade his selfish little ***.

 

[ShaneFalco]

This is from 2019 and I believe Muzzin has called out the team since

“We’ve got to put together a full 60 of hard work and playing the right way,” he told assembled reporters. “We do it in spurts, but we need to do it with a consistent effort through the whole 60 minutes.”
While he didn’t call anybody out by name, or really tighten the screws, the veteran’s displeasure with his team’s performance shone though.
“It’s a recipe for giving goals up when you take penalties and turn over pucks and play in your zone,” he said. “You can’t win like that.”

What's changed?

 

[Trapper]

This is from 2019 and I believe Muzzin has called out the team since

“We’ve got to put together a full 60 of hard work and playing the right way,” he told assembled reporters. “We do it in spurts, but we need to do it with a consistent effort through the whole 60 minutes.”
While he didn’t call anybody out by name, or really tighten the screws, the veteran’s displeasure with his team’s performance shone though.
“It’s a recipe for giving goals up when you take penalties and turn over pucks and play in your zone,” he said. “You can’t win like that.”

What's changed?

Nothing.
Here are his comments this year:
Jake Muzzin does not seem happy to have to do this again, and he has a right to his displeasure. He talks about the team needing urgency every night. He says his injury was a groin issue, and he doesn’t expect it to be a problem. He says it happened right on the ice in the video we’ve all seen, and he had not been previously injured.
“We can’t be easy to play against, or we won’t get it done in the playoffs.”

So who exactly needs urgency?
And why are they still here year after year?

 

[Stephen]

This play is basically a microcosm of why we struggle in the playoffs and most likely why it will continue.

This also isnt just a Mitch issue as I've seen Matthews pull that exact same play many times as well as Nylander.

It's often so subtle that it can be missed. Pulling up or intentionally taking a bad route to the puck so they can avoid taking a hit.

When people talk about "grit" for many its not about getting players that are tough but moreso a mindset towards playing a certain way and that involves taking hits to make plays, going to the dangerous areas with aggression and finishing checks every single shift.

Now that teams have player tracking you should easily be able to see an interesting trend. I would bet that if you highlighted "dangerous" areas on the ice (behind the net, front of the net, side boards) and tracked how much certain teams slowed up while entering those spots, our team would rank near the top while most of the teams doing well in the playoffs would rank near the bottom and their speed doesnt fluctuate that much.

Until we see our core 4 flush these habits out of their games and that means every single game, every single shift, we'll continue to lose to teams that arent taking those shortcuts.

Those bad loopy routes to a puck battle and the vigorous stick sweeps after you lose it while carefully avoiding contact and you concede the lane is the kind of play you see when you’re playing roller hockey with friends and nobody wants to fall on the concrete and scrape up their knee.

It’s just not a standard level of buy in and given what has been said about the Leafs going into Game 7, and it gives the other team confidence that they’re basically playing a bunch of pushovers. When this happens every single year, it’s just part of the psychological makeup. That’s the lack of killer instinct.

 

[m1ker]

This is from 2019 and I believe Muzzin has called out the team since

“We’ve got to put together a full 60 of hard work and playing the right way,” he told assembled reporters. “We do it in spurts, but we need to do it with a consistent effort through the whole 60 minutes.”
While he didn’t call anybody out by name, or really tighten the screws, the veteran’s displeasure with his team’s performance shone though.
“It’s a recipe for giving goals up when you take penalties and turn over pucks and play in your zone,” he said. “You can’t win like that.”

What's changed?

Now the organization encourages and rewards high risk plays

Do you guys remember when Kadri would be benched for doing something other than the basic play?

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

I tend to agree.

IMO Keefe should have taken a page out of the Pens SC teams and given 34, 16 & 88 their own line each. We already knew the Habs couldn't stop 88, so let them worry about 34 and 16 separately instead of together.

Marner has produced with everyone he has played with except 34 in the playoffs, but Keefe just kept running the same play.

Not an NHL coach.

Are we sure these guys don't have Keefe by the balls? Glad Marner was adamant about how the not playing a different role on the PP wasn't true, but I honestly don't know. I love Matty don't get me wrong, but I sometimes get diva vibes. Maybe he doesn't want to play with anyone else and Keefe wants to make him happy.

Who knows, regardless Keefe really should have broken them up. People will point to Boston's big line as a reason not to break them up, but after what I just witnessed, 2 11M dollar players being shut down by Denault and A couple of decent/good D my mouth is too sour to run that back.

 

[Stephen]

Are we sure these guys don't have Keefe by the balls? Glad Marner was adamant about how the not playing a different role on the PP wasn't true, but I honestly don't know. I love Matty don't get me wrong, but I sometimes get diva vibes. Maybe he doesn't want to play with anyone else and Keefe wants to make him happy.

Who knows, regardless Keefe really should have broken them up. People will point to Boston's big line as a reason not to break them up, but after what I just witnessed, 2 11M dollar players being shut down by Denault and A couple of decent/good D my mouth is too sour to run that back.

Boston’s Perfection Line stays intact because they produce in the regular season and playoffs!