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Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

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WillyNy said:
The issue is Mitch is simply not built for the playoffs. Physically. You can get away with it if you have speed, like Patrick Kane who dominates every situation he's put in. But Mitch is not a great skater - he relies on his hands to create space and the reality is that's much harder to do in the playoffs. I'm not saying Mitch can't be a great player in the postseason without adding weight. But he won't be doing what we've seen him do in the regular season, especially facing the opponent's best checking line giving 110% every night
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He wasn't getting bullied off pucks that much though, he had space and occasionally created some. The problem was his choices on what to do with that space, he overcomplicated simple plays and flubbed on open nets. Montreal made his life a little harder than the regular season but not so much that he became the lowest IQ player on the team overnight.

If he played with the same level of confidence or calmness as he did in the regular season nobody would care that he's small and slow. It's 90% a mental issue with him, there's plenty of guys with his size and speed that don't see their games fall off a cliff in the playoffs.
 
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Torontonian said:
People are really under selling Marner. I understand people are upset with his non playoff goals past couple years but he's still a good player lol. At 10.9m he might slightly overpaid but by 1 million or so.

First Year: 61 in 77gp
Second year: 69 in 82gp
Third year: 94 in 82
Fourth year: 67 in 59 (On pace for 94 if not for injury)
This year 67 in 55 (On pace for 100 points in full 82 game season)

Take a look a the highest paid wingers and their point totals...

Panarin - 11.6m (Multiple 80 point seasons and one 90 point season)
Kane - 10.5m (He has had two 100+ point seasons and hasn't hit 90 points in any other.)
Ovie - 9.5m (He signed this contract in 2008) -- Ovies just a beast, and the greatest goal scorer to play the game.
Benn - 9.5m (Hasn't hit over 90 points once)
Stone - 9.5m (Highest point total was 65 points..)
Kucherov - 9.5m (Savage of a player, has hit 100 points twice and 90 points mutiple times)
Rantanen - 9.2m (Two 80 point seasons, was on past last year for 80 points)
Skinner - 9m (Now this is an horrific contract)

As much as people want to rip on Marner his play has been fine in the regular season and he might have not scored in 18 playoff games, he still has 25 points in 32 playoff games. The difference between Mitch and everyone listed above apart from Rantenen who are the same age (24) -- They are all older and declining while Mitch is just about to enter his prime.
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Regular season production is great but when his PPG plummets from 1.22 in the regular season to 0.57 in the first round that’s not going to vindicate him from criticism.
 
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Torontonian said:
People are really under selling Marner. I understand people are upset with his non playoff goals past couple years but he's still a good player lol. At 10.9m he might slightly overpaid but by 1 million or so.

First Year: 61 in 77gp
Second year: 69 in 82gp
Third year: 94 in 82
Fourth year: 67 in 59 (On pace for 94 if not for injury)
This year 67 in 55 (On pace for 100 points in full 82 game season)

Take a look a the highest paid wingers and their point totals...

Panarin - 11.6m (Multiple 80 point seasons and one 90 point season)
Kane - 10.5m (He has had two 100+ point seasons and hasn't hit 90 points in any other.)
Ovie - 9.5m (He signed this contract in 2008) -- Ovies just a beast, and the greatest goal scorer to play the game.
Benn - 9.5m (Hasn't hit over 90 points once)
Stone - 9.5m (Highest point total was 65 points..)
Kucherov - 9.5m (Savage of a player, has hit 100 points twice and 90 points mutiple times)
Rantanen - 9.2m (Two 80 point seasons, was on past last year for 80 points)
Skinner - 9m (Now this is an horrific contract)

As much as people want to rip on Marner his play has been fine in the regular season and he might have not scored in 18 playoff games, he still has 25 points in 32 playoff games. The difference between Mitch and everyone listed above apart from Rantenen who are the same age (24) -- They are all older and declining while Mitch is just about to enter his prime.
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Mitch is predicable, has no shot and is unwilling to go to the dirty areas. He gets of ton of minutes and yet seems to be regressing in the playoffs.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
He wasn't getting bullied off pucks that much though, he had space and occasionally created some. The problem was his choices on what to do with that space, he overcomplicated simple plays and flubbed on open nets. Montreal made his life a little harder than the regular season but not so much that he became the lowest IQ player on the team overnight.

If he played with the same level of confidence or calmness as he did in the regular season nobody would care that he's small and slow. It's 90% a mental issue with him, there's plenty of guys with his size and speed that don't see their games fall off a cliff in the playoffs.
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Yeah it’s not so much he gets bullied off the puck. More like when he has time and space he wastes it. And when there’s a 50/50 puck battle he plays scared by conceding the puck by taking slightly bad routes and then sort of half assing with a vigorous flyby like “oh well I tried.”
 
Marner is the best playmaker on the team, whoever he plays with has great years. JT got 46 goals playing with him. AM won the RR award with him as setup man. Nylander would have been the best candidate for a trade, but his playoff success changes that, or perhaps makes him mire sought after. I am certain Marner would be welcomed anywhere else, but who would replace him? JT and Reilly would be the likely pieces to move, if possible. And not for a forward I hope.
 
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Robert McLellan said:
Marner is the best playmaker on the team, whoever he plays with has great years. JT got 46 goals playing with him. AM won the RR award with him as setup man. Nylander would have been the best candidate for a trade, but his playoff success changes that, or perhaps makes him mire sought after. I am certain Marner would be welcomed anywhere else, but who would replace him? JT and Reilly would be the likely pieces to move, if possible. And not for a forward I hope.
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Then maybe Marner should start playing with Soup and Engvall and see if he can make them into 20 goals scorer.
If he can do that like how AM did with Brown, Kap and AJ, it will solve a lot of our cap problem. Bc a 3rd line running at 15mil cap hit is not bad.
 
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Stephen said:
Regular season production is great but when his PPG plummets from 1.22 in the regular season to 0.57 in the first round that’s not going to vindicate him from criticism.
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He had 9 pts in the 2nd Boston series under Babcock. Keefe just doesn’t understand how matchup hockey works
 
Gabriel426 said:
Then maybe Marner should start playing with Soup and Engvall and see if he can make them into 20 goals scorer.
If he can do that like how AM did with Brown, Kap and AJ, it will solve a lot of our cap problem. Bc a 3rd line running at 15mil cap hit is not bad.
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The lines should be balanced but Keefe is a moron who wants to play a top line 22-24 minutes a game
 
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Stonehands1990 said:
The lines should be balanced but Keefe is a moron who wants to play a top line 22-24 minutes a game
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I just think coaches should be flexible with their lines play time. If a line is working and clicking one night, play that line more and vice versa.
The other thing is that I would not put Marner on PK anymore and let him reserve his energy on 5V5 and PP, he didn’t sign his 7th highest contract in the league to PK.
 
Gabriel426 said:
I just think coaches should be flexible with their lines play time. If a line is working and clicking one night, play that line more and vice versa.
The other thing is that I would not put Marner on PK anymore and let him reserve his energy on 5V5 and PP, he didn’t sign his 7th highest contract in the league to PK.
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When the Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line was driving the bus Keefe broke them up to play injured Foligno. You can’t make this up, I honestly think playoff Keefe is the worst coach I’ve ever seen
 
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Stonehands1990 said:
When the Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line was driving the bus Keefe broke them up to play injured Foligno. You can’t make this up, I honestly think playoff Keefe is the worst coach I’ve ever seen
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Keefe's tinkering reminds me of unnecessary fantasy hockey roster edits. Sometimes hard to figure out why he's making things complicated or looking beyond a matchup. Beyond pure roster and line blendering, I find him very poor in being able to motivate or manage any kind of positive momentum swings.
 
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Stonehands1990 said:
When the Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line was driving the bus Keefe broke them up to play injured Foligno. You can’t make this up, I honestly think playoff Keefe is the worst coach I’ve ever seen
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I think it is funny how Keefe never went back to the HEM line.
Or try to spilt the three 10mil plus players into three lines and see if they can elevate other players.
When healthy before the TDL, I really don’t see why Keefe didn’t even try these lines,
Gally-AM-Willie
Jumbo- JT-Simmonds
Soup-Kerfoot-Marner
 
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Gabriel426 said:
I think it is funny how Keefe never went back to the HEM line.
Or try to spilt the three 10mil plus players into three lines and see if they can elevate other players.
When healthy before the TDL, I really don’t see why Keefe didn’t even try these lines,
Gally-AM-Willie
Jumbo- JT-Simmonds
Soup-Kerfoot-Marner
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Without a doubt I found our team played better as a unit when the HEM or ZIP line was intact. Totally agree here.
 
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Stonehands1990 said:
Without a doubt I found our team played better as a unit when the HEM or ZIP line was intact. Totally agree here.
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The HEM line is a crash line. They just hit you with speed and forechecking. I think they know why they are together and their function is simple, disrupt the opposing team.
 
Gabriel426 said:
The HEM line is a crash line. They just hit you with speed and forechecking. I think they know why they are together and their function is simple, disrupt the opposing team.
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They can play against ANY line and chip on offensively. Not gonna dig but I bet the analytics checks out also. Makes it even more head scratching
 
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^^^unfortunately may happen. as long as Leafs get good value in trade back I'm ok with it.
 
Le Cobra said:
Marner will become a beast after he is traded to any another team (Carolina/Chicago/Detroit/Tampa etc). Will probably lead his new team to a Cup. Things will turn around for him, just not with the Leafs because this team is cursed in the playoffs.
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If they get a coach who actually knows how to use Marner he will be fine as a Leaf. McDavid was 1g 3a in 4 games after scoring nearly 2pts a game in the regular season. The Jets were able to shut him down and the Oil lost against a club they feasted on. Now that happened because they had no secondary scoring but the point is, Connor could not control that. It wasn't on him, it was the lineup. With the Leafs it was less secondary scoring than it was a coach who thought he could win by just rolling his stars out there and they would solve things.

The Leafs can definitely improve by moving a massive contract and distributing salary so they aren't relying on $1M players to bail them out but they are also not using their top players effectively either.
 
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HellasLEAF said:
^^^unfortunately may happen. as long as Leafs get good value in trade back I'm ok with it.
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The only guy I trade him for is Eichel. No way I trade him for whatever else is out there.

As much as we're upset at his performance, this guy is an elite player and while he's already elite, he'll get even better as he gets stronger which he will. He's still just 24 - we won't see the best of him until he's 26/27.
 
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