Mitch Marner discussion thread continued ..

[Racer88]

Remember when Mitch sat out because he wasn't able to extract enough money from the organization based solely off of future performances?

What a con man

 

[Stephen]

If the Leafs core forwards performed like Kessel routinely did in the playoffs, the team would have no trouble reaching the cup finals

Marner doesn’t have the athleticism and talent level of a Kessel.

 

[Racer88]

It would be so great to see a disciplinarian coach bench Marner for the first period in an elimination game. Hey if you’re not ready to start, we’ll wait till you’re ready.

His comment blows my mind and just shows you his I can say anything I want attitude. It’s like he doesn’t care how bad that sounds

 

[Garthinater]

I can help do a deeper dive in stats later when I'm not on my phone, but a quick look tells me Marner 0 Goals and 8 assists (4 primary) since signing his deal. Matthews is 3+7 with 4 primary assists.

Matthews has a iXGF OF 5.58, Marner 3.61.

Matthews has 20 HDCF and Marner 11. This while Matthews has done a better job setting others up.

But hey, Mitch certainly had a few good playoffs when the pressure was off.

HDCF and iXGF are completely useless stats.

The only thing that matters is production and they are virtually identical.

Yet one player makes more money and is signed for less time.

When looking at cap friendly austons contract stands out like a sore thumb. Its beyond rational.

On an 8 year deal he would've been making more than mother f.ing McDavid! Thats absurd.

 

[Mickey Marner]

A combination of a lack of focus and a fear of being hit.

 

[Gallagbi]

HDCF and iXGF are completely useless stats.

The only thing that matters is production and they are virtually identical.

Yet one player makes more money and is signed for less time.

When looking at cap friendly austons contract stands out like a sore thumb. Its beyond rational.

On an 8 year deal he would've been making more than mother f.ing McDavid! Thats absurd.

Virtually identical since signing their deal? Doesn't look like it

And I'd say things like iXGF and iHDCF are very important when talking about driving play like I've stated a number of times.

 

[Stephen]

So marner outperformed matthews yet matthews still got more money but you're mad at marner? Am I following properly?

Btw career playoff points:

Mitch 25 in 31

Auston 23 in 31

Darn those pesky stats!

Auston Matthews is playing well below expectations but he never potentially gave the game away on a PK by lobbing the puck into the upper bowl of an arena because he was brain dead or scared. That level of Marnerism isn’t something that can be overlooked so easily.

You might come back and say, this kind of thing happens. But it happens a lot with Marner. Look at the OT giveaway to Tkachuk. No biggie, right? Game 55 in a meaningless game? Well these mistakes are piling up now.

 

[3blizzard4]

It would be so great to see a disciplinarian coach bench Marner for the first period in an elimination game. Hey if you’re not ready to start, we’ll wait till you’re ready.

keefer almost sat Nylander for a game for coming late to a meeting.
Ironically Nylander is the only one to show up for this series.

 

[Mickey Marner]

The guy said the exact same shit last year. His words mean nothing. Just like his fake ass apology after his contract negotiations.

At least he didn't wear a fedora for this apology tour.

 

[ULF_55]

So marner outperformed matthews yet matthews still got more money but you're mad at marner? Am I following properly?

Btw career playoff points:

Mitch 25 in 31

Auston 23 in 31

Darn those pesky stats!

Minimum 20 games played:

 

[TheShape]

Unless Marner goes on some Conn Smythe tear here, I'm completely done with him and the team should move on. Nylander's cap hit is value, Matthews/JT aren't going anywhere. There's only one logical choice.

I'm not the biggest Eichel fan and his injuries are a question mark, but this is a swap that could have some legs here.

Dream scenario McDavid forces a trade out of Edmonton, Marner + and it's a wash on the cap

 

[1specter]

Truly a mental midget

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

A combination of a lack of focus and a fear of being hit.

This is the case with all of our team. We are afraid of being hit because Shanny doesn't value guys that are hitting and values guys who can receive a hit without retaliating back. He has said so many a time and use Andreas Johnnson as the template for his type of rough player..a guy who gets smashed constantly and keeps getting back up off the ice.

We got Simmonds who besides fighting once in a while is pretty much useless. He only weighs around 175...who exactly is he going to scare with a hit? Why couldn't we have a 4th line made up of big mean guys who can skate and plaster the other team into the boards...like the Islanders have with their 4th line? This skilled crap on the 4th line might seem like its an inefficiency to Dubas that he is exploiting...but its more like a liability. Spezza should be playing higher up and Jumbo should be on a relaxed plane ride back to Cali.

Having Jumbo be utterly useless all season and expecting him to make a difference in the playoffs is plain wishful thinking. He never elevated his game in SJ. That's why he and Marleau had their C's stripped off...and we went out and got them for .....leadership.

 

[Gallagbi]

It would be so great to see a disciplinarian coach bench Marner for the first period in an elimination game. Hey if you’re not ready to start, we’ll wait till you’re ready.

I'd rather see him fight back and show he can be a difference maker in key times.

This isn't the time for benching, it's put up or shut up time with 1 game left in the series and potentially our season. You give him the opportunity and if it's like the rest of the last ~20 playoff games you move on this summer

 

[Mickey Marner]

This is the case with all of our team. We are afraid of being hit because Shanny doesn't value guys that are hitting and values guys who can receive a hit without retaliating back. He has said so many a time and use Andreas Johnnson as the template for his type of rough player..a guy who gets smashed constantly and keeps getting back up off the ice.

We got Simmonds who besides fighting once in a while is pretty much useless. He only weighs around 175...who exactly is he going to scare with a hit? Why couldn't we have a 4th line made up of big mean guys who can skate and plaster the other team into the boards...like the Islanders have with their 4th line? This skilled crap on the 4th line might seem like its an inefficiency to Dubas that he is exploiting...but its more like a liability. Spezza should be playing higher up and Jumbo should be on a relaxed plane ride back to Cali.

Having Jumbo be utterly useless all season and expecting him to make a difference in the playoffs is plain wishful thinking. He never elevated his game in SJ. That's why he and Marleau had their C's stripped off...and we went out and got them for .....leadership.

Yep, way too many redundancies on this team, like Marner & Nylander and Thornton & Spezza. There's only one puck, five players, and 60 minutes, can't be icing a team of guys who play the same role and require the same minutes to succeed. Need much more roster diversity. The lack of accountability comes from the top down. Need to clean house, these guys don't want to have the best team, they want their desired team to be the best.

 

[Stephen]

I'd rather see him fight back and show he can be a difference maker in key times.

This isn't the time for benching, it's put up or shut up time with 1 game left in the series and potentially our season. You give him the opportunity and if it's like the rest of the last ~20 playoff games you move on this summer

I agree this is what will happen, but even if he goes off for a natural hat trick in the first period, I don't know if it wipes the slate clean.

 

[Stephen]

This is the case with all of our team. We are afraid of being hit because Shanny doesn't value guys that are hitting and values guys who can receive a hit without retaliating back. He has said so many a time and use Andreas Johnnson as the template for his type of rough player..a guy who gets smashed constantly and keeps getting back up off the ice.

We got Simmonds who besides fighting once in a while is pretty much useless. He only weighs around 175...who exactly is he going to scare with a hit? Why couldn't we have a 4th line made up of big mean guys who can skate and plaster the other team into the boards...like the Islanders have with their 4th line? This skilled crap on the 4th line might seem like its an inefficiency to Dubas that he is exploiting...but its more like a liability. Spezza should be playing higher up and Jumbo should be on a relaxed plane ride back to Cali.

Having Jumbo be utterly useless all season and expecting him to make a difference in the playoffs is plain wishful thinking. He never elevated his game in SJ. That's why he and Marleau had their C's stripped off...and we went out and got them for .....leadership.

The worst part is all of our more aggressive guys tend to tone it down after settling in as Leafs. Even Foligno isn't scrumming back anymore. Sometimes you think there must be a "turn the other cheek, limit your hits" policy in effect.

 

[Stephen]

keefer almost sat Nylander for a game for coming late to a meeting.
Ironically Nylander is the only one to show up for this series.

Yes, it would seem like the Leafs need a similar game no show policy that's as tough on players as Monday morning meetings.

 

[socko]

His comment blows my mind and just shows you his I can say anything I want attitude. It’s like he doesn’t care how bad that sounds

How about that look on his face after he flicked the puck into the stands for the 5 on 3? That's not the look that I expect a winner to have. You just royally screwed over your teammates.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The worst part is all of our more aggressive guys tend to tone it down after settling in as Leafs. Even Foligno isn't scrumming back anymore. Sometimes you think there must be a "turn the other cheek, limit your hits" policy in effect.

I keep telling everyone that it comes from the top...Shanny. He for whatever reason hates players playing the way he used to play for whatever reason. How many players that used to have a bomb from the point come here and start using wrist shots instead of clappers? Muzzin used to pound the puck the first 20 or so games until they must have sat him down to explain how there is a 3% better chance of scoring if you wrist it vs slap it. Same with Brodie...I remember seeing highlights of him bombing the puck while in calgary and he barely does it anymore since he came here.

The funny thing is...the longer this Shanaplan goes...the more it is starting to look like all the other teams in its make-up. They started by saying skill was the only thing that mattered to now getting D-men that can play D and make a first pass vs Tyson Barrie types that are useless to our team.

It seems that Shanny wants to win...but win it as gentlemen...not Neanderthals like the other teams.

 

[Havoc]

After sleeping on it, Marner still retires a Leaf in my books.

Here's why.

Defensively he's been one of the best forwards in the entire playoffs. Nobodies going to deny this so let's move on.

The issue is he's 24 and still 2-3 years away from "doing it all". This guy doesn't suck. He's gassed. Nothing in the tank to produce offence. Playoffs is a rough life especially when you're already worn down from the regular season .

If we want his A+ offence we will need to reduce his defensive responsibilities in the playoffs. Been saying this every year. Take Marner off the PK. Let him go all in offence. Watch the difference it makes. We'll make due on the PK. It's not worth the offensive decline.

Does anyone know if guys like barzal and point have to PK and stuff like Marner?

Matthews has 22 hits in 6 games. The room is there for Marner. Tanks running empty. These coaches are whack and never adjust.

Release Marner as an offensive juggernaut and this team will change over night.

 

[Mess]

Marner bitched and moaned and quit on his former coach and now is playing his worst playoff hockey under his new coach with just 4 assists ini 5 games last year and 4 assists in 6 games this year and yet to score a goal with Keefe behind the bench.

Be careful what you wish for because you might not like the results.

Maybe some tough love under his former coach motivated him more, than killing him with kindness and ice time and opportunity now?

 

[SeenSchenn2]

I don't expect it, but I'd love for him to make us all look very stupid tomorrow.

 

[socko]

I can buy that he plays too much and is run down, seems likely. But PK is literally the best part of his game. It's the only thing he's really elite at. He sure as hell is no PP specialist. I think he does more harm than good on the PP.

 

[ToneDog]

After sleeping on it, Marner still retires a Leaf in my books.

Here's why.

Defensively he's been one of the best forwards in the entire playoffs. Nobodies going to deny this so let's move on.

The issue is he's 24 and still 2-3 years away from "doing it all". This guy doesn't suck. He's gassed. Nothing in the tank to produce offence. Playoffs is a rough life especially when you're already worn down from the regular season .

If we want his A+ offence we will need to reduce his defensive responsibilities in the playoffs. Been saying this every year. Take Marner off the PK. Let him go all in offence. Watch the difference it makes. We'll make due on the PK. It's not worth the offensive decline.

Does anyone know if guys like barzal and point have to PK and stuff like Marner?

Matthews has 22 hits in 6 games. The room is there for Marner. Tanks running empty. These coaches are whack and never adjust.

Release Marner as an offensive juggernaut and this team will change over night.

Tend to agree but sounds like an excuse. Didn't he PK during his 100+ point pace season(s) ? The guy is totally messed up. No other explanation for the brain cramp puck flip into the stands while already a man down.