Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VII | The Saga Continues

[The Hanging Jowl]

People ****ting on Dubas for not signing Marner last summer, I get it, but you are ignoring so much. He was negotiating with Nylander, remember? He wanted 8.5 when Marner was willing to extend.

You take that 9M deal, even if you think that he is worth it, and Nylander who was basically an equal to most at the time can ask for it as well.

In hindsight, maybe it's better to do 11 x8, 9x8, and 8.5x8 = 28.5 AAV for 8 years vs 11.65, 11, 6.9 = 27 AAV for 5-6 years, but you just can't use hindsight to judge it.

At the time if he signed Nylander to that, there would have been riots.

Considering I just wrote a statement you're practically quoting, I'll assume I triggered this response. If so, I literally said I understand the complications it would have caused with the Nylander negotiations.

 

[WTFMAN99]

This as well as some other stuff in the first year has created a little animosity is my understanding.
There's a reason Mitch's dad skips the Dad's trip now.

Trying to get vengeance for Lou's stupidity on the ELC bonuses against Dubas is incredibly dumb though.

 

[ACC1224]

Trying to get vengeance for Lou's stupidity on the ELC bonuses against Dubas is incredibly dumb though.

That wouldn't be the only reason.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Exactly... people love to ignore half the facts.

Matthews was a slam dunk though and they messed up on him.

Yeah. I've come around to the Nylander deal.. I have even managed to accept that Matthews caphit.. But not getting 8 years for that, given the cap hit and signing bonus structure is laughable negotiating.

 

[Rymistri]

This as well as some other stuff in the first year has created a little animosity is my understanding.
There's a reason Mitch's dad skips the Dad's trip now.

I can understand the ELC bonuses coming up as in we don't want to give a discount because we already did. I can't for the life of me imagine how ice time from 3 years ago factors into the negotiation.

 

[Cor]

Friedman and CJ both talked about how they hope Marner has someone around him reminding him what he does have.

They both said that when a contract negotiation, and they both experienced this themselves, when a negotiation gets difficult, it's easy to lose sight of the positives and what you do have, and focus purely on what you're not getting. Friedman says at one point he was in a tough negotiation, and he wasn't sure where it was going, and it was wife who asked what he was doing, and to step back and realize he's on Hockey Night In Canada every week, and that being the highest paid guy there doesn't matter as much.

They said they aren't taking anything away from Marner, or the ability to negotiate, and get what you can, just the importance of having someone to remind you of the positives, in addition to the people fighting for you.

They both said Marner is an incredible player, and incredible person and has a chance to be the greatest Toronto born Maple Leaf ever, go down with the greats, and with the way he's going, if in 20-22 years from now he's being inducted into the HHOF, neither of them would be surprised.

 

[FlareKnight]

I wonder if Marner is as much of a Leafs fan as he says he is. If he thinks being dramatically overpaid is going to get him respect then he hasn't been paying attention. The only thing that he's going to garner is frustration and criticism. He needs to gather himself and realize how this could blow up in his face.

No matter what he's going to get more than he probably should considering his position and being an assist guy. Respect isn't something he's going to get from his income. I just hope things work out before they get completely out of hand.

 

[CelticDruid]

This whole contract stalemate has Marner's ego written all over it.

The Marner camp sound like pissed off schoolboys arguing over who should have been picked first in the local pick up game.

How far will his nose be out of joint if #34 gets picked to be captain? Could be Marner's last contract in Toronto if he signs. I can see a huge fall out of all these theatrical interventions by Mitch's Dad and Co.

Trade Marner and solidify our #2D and balance out our forward depth.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

This as well as some other stuff in the first year has created a little animosity is my understanding.
There's a reason Mitch's dad skips the Dad's trip now.

That's really pathetic. Even if you have issues with management you should be able to act like an adult and support your son.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I hope the comments on not matching aren't an issue. What was Dubas supposed to say? "No matter what another team offers we'll match"?

Exactly and since Marner's camp brought this to the public first, it would be ridiculous for them to get their backs up. I doubt, or at least hope, it's not true

 

[WTFMAN99]

That wouldn't be the only reason.

Seems like he's been mad about some silly stuff for too long.

Like what Cor posted below; he is pretty beloved in the city but this isn't helping his image. Getting $80M guaranteed in the next 8 years + endorsements etc + getting paid USD in Canada = He is doing great in life.

I think they've shown him a lot of respect with that 80M offer.

Kane, Stone, Kuch etc didn't see that money on contract #2.

Forget the model I saw online projected Marner's value at 9.6M on an 8 year contract, I think Dubas is trying to push this as much as I can. I hope Marner eventually realizes what he has with this group and in this city.

I personally don't want to see him go via trade/offer sheet but you can also draw so much blood from a stone.

Friedman and CJ both talked about how they hope Marner has someone around him reminding him what he does have.

They both said that when a contract negotiation, and they both experienced this themselves, when a negotiation gets difficult, it's easy to lose sight of the positives and what you do have, and focus purely on what you're not getting. Friedman says at one point he was in a tough negotiation, and he wasn't sure where it was going, and it was wife who asked what he was doing, and to step back and realize he's on Hockey Night In Canada every week, and that being the highest paid guy there doesn't matter as much.

They said they aren't taking anything away from Marner, or the ability to negotiate, and get what you can, just the importance of having someone to remind you of the positives, in addition to the people fighting for you.

They both said Marner is an incredible player, and incredible person and has a chance to be the greatest Toronto born Maple Leaf ever, go down with the greats, and with the way he's going, if in 20-22 years from now he's being inducted into the HHOF, neither of them would be surprised.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This as well as some other stuff in the first year has created a little animosity is my understanding.
There's a reason Mitch's dad skips the Dad's trip now.

Too many drinks and drama. Babs only knows the old school way to deal with these kinda things. and who knows maybe he was right. If Paul is bringing up all that stuff again I was hoping he'd be bigger than that for his sake. if negotiations are going backwards like that then it is bad. if it goes public then i'm afraid that's it for Mitch here.

 

[Cor]

This as well as some other stuff in the first year has created a little animosity is my understanding.
There's a reason Mitch's dad skips the Dad's trip now.

There were DM leaks from Paul Marner bashing Mike Babcock. Apparently Leaf management had to speak with Paul about them.

Paul Marner took Mitch Marner playing on the 4th line at times in his rookie year personally.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Feeling slighted about the bonuses on the ELC feels petty but understandable. Complaining about usage is not. He got to play sheltered scoring minutes along two guys that together average about 110 points per season. It's about as close to ideal situation for a rookie as you can get. And I don't even know what to say if they are upset about Dubas' comment.

Just feels like another piece of information that doesn't paint Marner camp in a good light.

This as well as some other stuff in the first year has created a little animosity is my understanding.
There's a reason Mitch's dad skips the Dad's trip now.

Given all I've read and heard, I'm going to say that reason begins and ends with Paul himself.

 

[Mess]

Trying to get vengeance for Lou's stupidity on the ELC bonuses against Dubas is incredibly dumb though.

Its not Dubas, it would be directed at the Leafs organization overall.

Marner feels he already cut the Leafs a break because Lou Lam doesn't believe in giving out rookie bonus easily, so now as a result Mitch doesn't feel obligated to give them another discount on his 2nd deal, as they got that on his 1st ELC.

I don't see that position as anything directed at Dubas personally for Lou Lam actions, its all about getting what he feels he is worth from the organization, the GM in the seat is just the one facilitating the transaction. IMO

It was Dubas that orchestrated that "We before Me" media blitz last summer, trying to convince players to take less, but none of the 3 Amigo's bought into that and Marner is not doing anything different that Willy and Auston didn't do also and that is look out for themselves first.

Its not personal, its business.

 

[A1LeafNation]

If Marner signs for 10M x 8 years

Amongst forwards only

McDavid
Matthews
Tavares
Kane
Toews

would be ahead

He would be tied with Eichel and Kopitar.

And the only winger on that list had 3 cups prior to signing.

 

[egd27]

i clarified it in a previous post pal, move on

ok.....to be honest I never saw whatever post you're referring to, but it's not really important as Panarin is a nonstarter for the Leafs

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

There were DM leaks from Paul Marner bashing Mike Babcock. Apparently Leaf management had to speak with Paul about them.

Paul Marner took Mitch Marner playing on the 4th line at times in his rookie year personally.

Marner arguably had the easiest time of Matthews, Nylander and himself. He gets mostly stable line mates, his first line mates were Bozak and JVR which led to prime power play time. His father needs to stop getting involved, he's not a coach and it's not Babcock's job to make make sure Marner's dad isn't mad. This is so juvenile, it's like the NHL version of a drunk dad screaming at a little league coach about not letting Johnny play.

Paul Marner just continues to look worse and worse.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dear Mitch

You’re not Matthews
Tell daddy

 

[jrgtml67]

Media needs to create a buzz. Was said forever ago Mitch didn't want 8yrs more like 5 to 6yrs. Itll go to July 1st he signs them we move on. The whole reason why Kap and Aj signings haven't be cemented is because dubas said himself hes doing nothing until Mitch is figured out.

 

[Walshy7]

There were DM leaks from Paul Marner bashing Mike Babcock. Apparently Leaf management had to speak with Paul about them.

Paul Marner took Mitch Marner playing on the 4th line at times in his rookie year personally.

Add this to the video of him in the rink with little Mitch and other hearsay quotes all adds up to Paul marner being a petty individual trying live out his dreams through his son.

If and it’s a big if, this is all true

 

[Albert Iafrate]

I'm sure this has been brought up, but I think the root of the entire problem we are facing is Dubas signing Tavares last summer. Because we are "Toronto" and he was available, there was this feeling like we HAD to sign him, but in reality, with out core being so young, it really didn't make any sense (at least to me), it was a luxury, not a necessity.

The main negative effect appears if you look at what happened cap-wise. Tavares' contract set a precedent in terms of comparable cap-hit number, specifically within the Toronto market. Players agents use other players as a measuring stick, but certain markets are different than other markets. Without Tavares and his 11M dollar contract, there would have not been a comparable in this market, so Matthews' agent would have had to use the Nylander contract as a measuring stick. This could have resulted in Matthews getting 10M - 10.5M and subsequently, Marner would have only been able to ask for 9M - 9.5M. Plus, we wouldn't have been up against it cap wise.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I'm sure this has been brought up, but I think the root of the entire problem we are facing is Dubas signing Tavares last summer. Because we are "Toronto" and he was available, there was this feeling like we HAD to sign him, but in reality, with out core being so young, it really didn't make any sense (at least to me), it was a luxury, not a necessity.

The main negative effect appears if you look at what happened cap-wise. Tavares' contract set a precedent in terms of comparable cap-hit number, specifically within the Toronto market. Players agents use other players as a measuring stick, but certain markets are different than other markets. Without Tavares and his 11M dollar contract, there would have not been a comparable in this market, so Matthews' agent would have had to use the Nylander contract as a measuring stick. This could have resulted in Matthews getting 10M - 10.5M and subsequently, Marner would have only been able to ask for 9M - 9.5M. Plus, we wouldn't have been up against it cap wise.

There are a ton of assumptions in this post.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I'm sure this has been brought up, but I think the root of the entire problem we are facing is Dubas signing Tavares last summer. Because we are "Toronto" and he was available, there was this feeling like we HAD to sign him, but in reality, with out core being so young, it really didn't make any sense (at least to me), it was a luxury, not a necessity.

The main negative effect appears if you look at what happened cap-wise. Tavares' contract set a precedent in terms of comparable cap-hit number, specifically within the Toronto market. Players agents use other players as a measuring stick, but certain markets are different than other markets. Without Tavares and his 11M dollar contract, there would have not been a comparable in this market, so Matthews' agent would have had to use the Nylander contract as a measuring stick. This could have resulted in Matthews getting 10M - 10.5M and subsequently, Marner would have only been able to ask for 9M - 9.5M. Plus, we wouldn't have been up against it cap wise.

Eichel and McDavid are almost certainly what dictated his price, not Tavares.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

There were DM leaks from Paul Marner bashing Mike Babcock. Apparently Leaf management had to speak with Paul about them.

Paul Marner took Mitch Marner playing on the 4th line at times in his rookie year personally.

Never saw that before. Saw many people like him though while my kid was going through the rep system. Colour me not shocked at all.