Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Evilhomer]

And really it's the core 3 after this year. JT is getting a massive haircut and you can squeeze him for the friendly deal, given his age and not wanting to move. The cap finally rising hard makes this a no brainer for me anyways.

It would be a no-brainer for any team in the league. You don't let your best players walk away for nothing. The Leafs will resign him, and I very much doubt they will risk waiting until after the playoffs. The price to sign him will only go up.

 

[ACC1224]

Put on a pretty good show for his Team Canada Coach last night.
Played really well, best player on the ice.

 

[Niagara Bill]

He played 2 really really good periods last night. Dominate at both ends.
But as he scored the 5th goal he looked like he was pouting, not showing joy. Was he pissed at being hit really hard just previous, was he disappointed in team mates for not coming to defend him. Does daddy instruct him to show the team he is not happy and not a Leaf for life.

 

[Evilhomer]

He played 2 really really good periods last night. Dominate at both ends.
But as he scored the 5th goal he looked like he was pouting, not showing joy. Was he pissed at being hit really hard just previous, was he disappointed in team mates for not coming to defend him. Does daddy instruct him to show the team he is not happy and not a Leaf for life.

I have to ask, is there another fan base in the league that would ridicule the fourth leading scorer in the league like this? Pouting? Who the hell cares if he had a sour face. The guy dominated the game at both ends of the ice, as he does most nights. Yeah, I get people complaining about the playoffs. It's overblown, but whatever. But how on Earth can people be complaining about his play this season?

 

[ACC1224]

I have to ask, is there another fan base in the league that would ridicule the fourth leading scorer in the league like this? Pouting? Who the hell cares if he had a sour face. The guy dominated the game at both ends of the ice, as he does most nights. Yeah, I get people complaining about the playoffs. It's overblown, but whatever. But how on Earth can people be complaining about his play this season?

It's pathetic, either looking for attention or unsure of what they're watching.

I don't recall the play but he looked like he was hurt a bit a few minutes prior to the goal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He played 2 really really good periods last night. Dominate at both ends.
But as he scored the 5th goal he looked like he was pouting, not showing joy. Was he pissed at being hit really hard just previous, was he disappointed in team mates for not coming to defend him. Does daddy instruct him to show the team he is not happy and not a Leaf for life.

Good lord, the conspiracy theories that some people come up with.
He was just tired from a 2 minute and 11 second shift defending a 6v5.

 

[DarkKnight]

He played 2 really really good periods last night. Dominate at both ends.
But as he scored the 5th goal he looked like he was pouting, not showing joy. Was he pissed at being hit really hard just previous, was he disappointed in team mates for not coming to defend him. Does daddy instruct him to show the team he is not happy and not a Leaf for life.

lol he was exhausted, was on the ice forever. What a fan base. And you sound like a child, which is ironic given your intent there.

 

[mclaren55]

Great game last night. As I've stated, great player. We can't afford to keep this guy around though. Unless he magically becomes a different player in the playoffs, we will be perpetually bounced in the first two rounds. Even last night during a PK he cleared the puck, chased it, was ahead of the defender in the offensive zone, and curled back to avoid contact. Similar play developed in a previous game with Kampf and he did the same thing, except he engaged in contact and killed another 10 seconds off the PK. Those little plays are what tilts the ice in the post season.

Marners inability to take contact (other than getting laid out by the bench yesterday) is what makes him less effective when things get tight. He has always relied on his edge work, and that disappears in the playoffs. If he wants anything north of Nylanders contract, I'm not sure how we become more competitive in the playoffs. We definitely need more depth, cause teams are able to shut down our first line. Our second line isn't getting any faster, and although JT started the year out looking faster, he is coming back down to his average quickly. Not sure how he recovers from the supposed groin injury either.

Once again, amazing player, but we've selected our horses already with Matthews and Nylander. If Marner wants 13M which has been rumoured, you have to let him walk. I rather have two 7M players (one C and one D) than a 99 point winger. We can't keep spending 40-50% of our cap on 3 guys (if he gets 13M it will be 43% of the projected 25/26 cap).

To reiterate, amazing player, but not one you spend that much cap on.

 

[ToneDog]

Great game last night. As I've stated, great player. We can't afford to keep this guy around though. Unless he magically becomes a different player in the playoffs, we will be perpetually bounced in the first two rounds. Even last night during a PK he cleared the puck, chased it, was ahead of the defender in the offensive zone, and curled back to avoid contact. Similar play developed in a previous game with Kampf and he did the same thing, except he engaged in contact and killed another 10 seconds off the PK. Those little plays are what tilts the ice in the post season.

Marners inability to take contact (other than getting laid out by the bench yesterday) is what makes him less effective when things get tight. He has always relied on his edge work, and that disappears in the playoffs. If he wants anything north of Nylanders contract, I'm not sure how we become more competitive in the playoffs. We definitely need more depth, cause teams are able to shut down our first line. Our second line isn't getting any faster, and although JT started the year out looking faster, he is coming back down to his average quickly. Not sure how he recovers from the supposed groin injury either.

Once again, amazing player, but we've selected our horses already with Matthews and Nylander. If Marner wants 13M which has been rumoured, you have to let him walk. I rather have two 7M players (one C and one D) than a 99 point winger. We can't keep spending 40-50% of our cap on 3 guys (if he gets 13M it will be 43% of the projected 25/26 cap).

To reiterate, amazing player, but not one you spend that much cap on.

Nailed it. Add that he is not a goal scorer or plays with any physicality and no way am I giving him $13+m when I am already paying 2 other players $24.75m and they have won 1 series in 8 years. Of course I am assuming they are not here to sell jerseys and want to win the SC.

 

[Evilhomer]

If Marner wants 13M which has been rumoured, you have to let him walk. I rather have two 7M players (one C and one D) than a 99 point winger. We can't keep spending 40-50% of our cap on 3 guys (if he gets 13M it will be 43% of the projected 25/26 cap).

I'd wager that literally no manager in any profession, be it sports or otherwise, feels this way. I'm trying to imagine taking this approach at my law firm. Hey guys, let's replace our highest-paid, most skilled lawyers with a greater number of mediocre lawyers for the same price!

 

[Nineteen67]

Great game last night. As I've stated, great player. We can't afford to keep this guy around though. Unless he magically becomes a different player in the playoffs, we will be perpetually bounced in the first two rounds. Even last night during a PK he cleared the puck, chased it, was ahead of the defender in the offensive zone, and curled back to avoid contact. Similar play developed in a previous game with Kampf and he did the same thing, except he engaged in contact and killed another 10 seconds off the PK. Those little plays are what tilts the ice in the post season.

Marners inability to take contact (other than getting laid out by the bench yesterday) is what makes him less effective when things get tight. He has always relied on his edge work, and that disappears in the playoffs. If he wants anything north of Nylanders contract, I'm not sure how we become more competitive in the playoffs. We definitely need more depth, cause teams are able to shut down our first line. Our second line isn't getting any faster, and although JT started the year out looking faster, he is coming back down to his average quickly. Not sure how he recovers from the supposed groin injury either.

Once again, amazing player, but we've selected our horses already with Matthews and Nylander. If Marner wants 13M which has been rumoured, you have to let him walk. I rather have two 7M players (one C and one D) than a 99 point winger. We can't keep spending 40-50% of our cap on 3 guys (if he gets 13M it will be 43% of the projected 25/26 cap).

To reiterate, amazing player, but not one you spend that much cap on.

That PK play didn’t look good. If he was changing it would be fine, but he should have stayed shoulder to shoulder, but I think he felt he couldn’t win the foot race so he didn’t engage.

Nylander did something similar in a game 7, down a goal, with under 4 minutes left, so I’m not sure that’s the horse to hitch your wagon

 

[ACC1224]

Great game last night. As I've stated, great player. We can't afford to keep this guy around though. Unless he magically becomes a different player in the playoffs, we will be perpetually bounced in the first two rounds. Even last night during a PK he cleared the puck, chased it, was ahead of the defender in the offensive zone, and curled back to avoid contact. Similar play developed in a previous game with Kampf and he did the same thing, except he engaged in contact and killed another 10 seconds off the PK. Those little plays are what tilts the ice in the post season.

Marners inability to take contact (other than getting laid out by the bench yesterday) is what makes him less effective when things get tight. He has always relied on his edge work, and that disappears in the playoffs. If he wants anything north of Nylanders contract, I'm not sure how we become more competitive in the playoffs. We definitely need more depth, cause teams are able to shut down our first line. Our second line isn't getting any faster, and although JT started the year out looking faster, he is coming back down to his average quickly. Not sure how he recovers from the supposed groin injury either.

Once again, amazing player, but we've selected our horses already with Matthews and Nylander. If Marner wants 13M which has been rumoured, you have to let him walk. I rather have two 7M players (one C and one D) than a 99 point winger. We can't keep spending 40-50% of our cap on 3 guys (if he gets 13M it will be 43% of the projected 25/26 cap).

To reiterate, amazing player, but not one you spend that much cap on.

Certainly your opinion but it's nothing but speculation that they've chosen 'our horses'.
That won't be proven until he signs elsewhere but has it ever happened where a team moves on from the better player to keep the lessor one?
I can't think of an instance.

Also on the PK, you don't want to be trapped deep, that's pretty standard.

 

[ToneDog]

I'd wager that literally no manager in any profession, be it sports or otherwise, feels this way. I'm trying to imagine taking this approach at my law firm. Hey guys, let's replace our highest-paid, most skilled lawyers with a greater number of mediocre lawyers for the same price!

Not the greatest analogy but I'll play along. What would you do if your best lawyer won 1 case of his last 9 and was looking for a 20% increase? Most would fold the law firm unless they were the only law firm in town.

 

[Raging Bull]

He played 2 really really good periods last night. Dominate at both ends.
But as he scored the 5th goal he looked like he was pouting, not showing joy. Was he pissed at being hit really hard just previous, was he disappointed in team mates for not coming to defend him. Does daddy instruct him to show the team he is not happy and not a Leaf for life.

Lmao at people inventing scenarios in their head to get angry about. Must be hard to live life that way.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Marner's a conundrum. I don't think they can afford him. But damn he looks good out there lately. If they decide to resign him at market value ($13M+), I think they need to drop Tavares unless he wants to take the team discount. But Tavares has also looked damn good this season. Who knew having too many good players would be such a problem? Crazy life.

 

[Stringer Bell]

It's pathetic, either looking for attention or unsure of what they're watching.

I don't recall the play but he looked like he was hurt a bit a few minutes prior to the goal.

To be fair, on the other side of the spectrum, no one here would be surprised if you used night vision binoculars to stare into his bedroom each night.

The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. No doubt he's having a phenomenal regular season, but he's had them before. He's asking for a tremendous amount of money. As of now he's a regular season player and unless he adds some playoff style hockey to his regular season game...it won't matter how many points or how great he plays in the regular season...there's going to be a faction of fans who just can't see past that it won't translate when it matters.

I wouldn't say that's pathetic. This is an internet message board. I really appreciate seeing and hearing all ranges of opinions.

 

[LeafEgo]

And really it's the core 3 after this year. JT is getting a massive haircut and you can squeeze him for the friendly deal, given his age and not wanting to move. The cap finally rising hard makes this a no brainer for me anyways.

JT will get squeezed and isn't very relevant other than the monies that open up.

I dont see it as cap gymnastics so much as by the end of this season it's possible a very compelling case could be made that big change is required.

I prefer Nylander and would be pissed, but it's worth noting that signing Marner and forcing a Willy waive and trade is the option that returns assets. But if their respective performances this playoffs resemble last year that gets tough.

Ideally Marner tears it up and the team performs well so we don't have to worry about it.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner's a conundrum. I don't think they can afford him. But damn he looks good out there lately. If they decide to resign him at market value ($13M+), I think they need to drop Tavares unless he wants to take the team discount. But Tavares has also looked damn good this season. Who knew having too many good players would be such a problem? Crazy life.

IMO nobody is paying him $104+m year other than the Leafs. Let him go to free agency and find out. Johnny Hockey (RIP) found that out and he was coming off a 115 point season and had a 99 point season under his belt. Paying few players all the money has not worked and is almost guaranteed not to work with this group of players. Sorry, none are McDavid, MacKinnon, Draisaitl or Kutcherov and should not be paid as such.

 

[Evilhomer]

Not the greatest analogy but I'll play along. What would you do if your best lawyer won 1 case of his last 9 and was looking for a 20% increase? Most would fold the law firm unless they were the only law firm in town.

You always keep your best talent, because over an extended period of time the odds are that talent will perform better than mediocrity. That will be the same scenario here. This team hasn't won in the past several years because it didn't have the right lineup and/or there were other teams in the division/conference that were better in that moment. I think we have now reached a point with this lineup where all of those things have changed.

 

[GoonieFace]

He wasn’t even the best player on his line, but I guess falling on your knees alot is worthy of extra praise.

 

[ToneDog]

You always keep your best talent, because over an extended period of time the odds are that talent will perform better than mediocrity. That will be the same scenario here. This team hasn't won in the past several years because it didn't have the right lineup and/or there were other teams in the division/conference that were better in that moment. I think we have now reached a point with this lineup where all of those things have changed.

True but if they do not get past Florida in year 9, are there any excuses left and is it enough proof that they cannot win with this core making all the money? Save your money and soft tamper with McDavid. He should be about ready to return home soon.

 

[mclaren55]

I'd wager that literally no manager in any profession, be it sports or otherwise, feels this way. I'm trying to imagine taking this approach at my law firm. Hey guys, let's replace our highest-paid, most skilled lawyers with a greater number of mediocre lawyers for the same price!

Law firms don't have cap constraints. I also didn't say "replace players", I said replace *a* player, singular. Nice try though.

 

[Gary Nylund]

To be fair, on the other side of the spectrum, no one here would be surprised if you used night vision binoculars to stare into his bedroom each night.

The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. No doubt he's having a phenomenal regular season, but he's had them before. He's asking for a tremendous amount of money. As of now he's a regular season player and unless he adds some playoff style hockey to his regular season game...it won't matter how many points or how great he plays in the regular season...there's going to be a faction of fans who just can't see past that it won't translate when it matters.

I wouldn't say that's pathetic. This is an internet message board. I really appreciate seeing and hearing all ranges of opinions.

Yup. Fair is fair.

Giving this kid another long term deal before the playoffs would be conclusive proof that playoff success is not a priority for this organization, simple as that.

Marner kills it for 86 games, then the games tighten up, get more physical and Marner becomes ineffective. The people wanting him signed now are one of two things:

1 - they also don't care about playoff success
2 - they have forgotten how different playoff Marner is from regular season Marner

How is it possible that people see the same movie over and over and over again, yet forget what they've seen? It's like Groundhog Day in real life.

 

[LeafEgo]

I'd wager that literally no manager in any profession, be it sports or otherwise, feels this way. I'm trying to imagine taking this approach at my law firm. Hey guys, let's replace our highest-paid, most skilled lawyers with a greater number of mediocre lawyers for the same price!

I'm picturing it at a multi billion dollar equity firm where award winning industry leaders are kicked to the curb by the quarter when the results are consecutively not good enough.

If your most skilled and highest paid lawyers lose your nine biggest cases in a row than probably you should at least have a discussion.

 

[Hallonbroder]

And really it's the core 3 after this year. JT is getting a massive haircut and you can squeeze him for the friendly deal, given his age and not wanting to move. The cap finally rising hard makes this a no brainer for me anyways.

You’re giving Leafs management too much credit. They’re signing both, before the playoffs and get fleeced - 9 m per for Tavares and 15 mil per for Mitch. And then rinse and repeat etc etc