Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[ToneDog]

1 million above the best offer? However Tavares under 2 million on best offer. Ex San Jose 13 million

Tavares was never going anywhere but Toronto. Never put up 100 points but was going to be overpaid because he was a UFA. Looking back, and you can look it up, I said $10m max or go elsewhere.

 

[ACC1224]

It would be nice if we had better defensive stats. As great as he's been offensively he's been even better defensively. The number of opposition chances he eliminates by back checking, getting in passing lanes, forcing turnovers etc etc is impressive. Unfortunately a lot of these things aren't measured and happen away from the puck so people don't even notice them.

Baby steps. Understanding what goes on over 200 feet is a little much to expect still.

 

[666]

Baby steps. Understanding what goes on over 200 feet is a little much to expect still.

Like. I'd be happy with ANYTHING other than points. I've actually seen people post that wingers don't need to be defensively responsible. There's a knowledge gap here that appears to be insurmountable. To see people thinking the Nylander is more valuable that Marner is a clear sign. Until Marner wins the Conn Smythe with the most points it's going to be an uphill battle.

 

[supermann_98]

Like. I'd be happy with ANYTHING other than points. I've actually seen people post that wingers don't need to be defensively responsible. There's a knowledge gap here that appears to be insurmountable. To see people thinking the Nylander is more valuable that Marner is a clear sign. Until Marner wins the Conn Smythe with the most points it's going to be an uphill battle.

“Until”? I would suggest the word “unless”, as “until” means that it’s actually going to happen and from what I’ve seen Mitch tries too hard in the playoffs and puts too much pressure on himself which leads to his creativity and effectiveness going out the window

 

[Dekes For Days]

Looking back, and you can look it up, I said $10m max or go elsewhere.

Really? Looking back as you said, you seemed pretty happy in the 11m signing thread.

"As a long time suffering Leaf fan, I have been waiting for one our local stars to have the passion and desire to come home to break this 50+ year SC drought and we finally go one." -ToneDog

You were even applauded by others for being one of the biggest advocators of that move.

"i have to give you credit, Tone. you were on this for a whole year, and you were v. detailed how this makes the most sense. you must be so happy now lol" -Daisy Jane

Which you acknowledged.

"Yeah I have been on the Tavares train for a long time and I think our fans deserve this and he deserves to be a Leaf." -ToneDog

In fact, you seemed to acknowledge that 11m was a discount:

"So many posters and insiders were posting that Tavares was not going to give any hometown discount to return to the Leafs. Well it turns out that he did and he did it because he wants to win and win for his home town, childhood team and he is willing to do it outside his comfort zone" -ToneDog

Heck, 2018 ToneDog even has some good advice for you when it comes to Marner.

"No Leaf fan is his right mind would bash a guy that bleeds blue and white and wants to win a cup for Toronto." -ToneDog

 

[Divine]

Tavares was never going anywhere but Toronto. Never put up 100 points but was going to be overpaid because he was a UFA. Looking back, and you can look it up, I said $10m max or go elsewhere.

This is ignoring league-wide scoring.

Tavares finished 2nd in the league in scoring with 86 points in 2014-2015. 1 point away from winning the Art Ross. Scoring more than both Crosby and Ovechkin who were in their primes and finished 3rd and 4th in league scoring.

Marner was not peak Tavares. He came into a higher scoring league and plays on a higher scoring team.

 

[francis246]

This is ignoring league-wide scoring.

Tavares finished 2nd in the league in scoring with 86 points in 2014-2015. 1 point away from winning the Art Ross. Scoring more than both Crosby and Ovechkin who were in their primes and finished 3rd and 4th in league scoring.

Marner was not peak Tavares. He came into a higher scoring league and plays on a higher scoring team.

Exactly Tavares had a monster 2014-15 and one could argue his 2013-14 was even better and had it not been for him destroying himself at the Olympics he probably would have had similar production.

Pretty sure he was on pace to be top 3 in scoring behind Crosby. Who was world class that year. But Kessel finished top 10 in scoring in 2013-14.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Would 15 mil get it done? Or is he determined to see what free agency offers?

 

[Gary Nylund]

“Until”? I would suggest the word “unless”, as “until” means that it’s actually going to happen and from what I’ve seen Mitch tries too hard in the playoffs and puts too much pressure on himself which leads to his creativity and effectiveness going out the window

I used to think that was it but many have said that it's his style of play that's not suited to playoff hockey where you don't have the time/space to operate that you have in the regular season. I'm leaning more in that direction myself but it could be a combination of both things.

Would 15 mil get it done? Or is he determined to see what free agency offers?

15 might be enough if it came with not just the usual full NMC and most of it paid upfront, but also an apology for all the negative things that have ever been said about his playoff performance. A new law being passed making criticizing Marner a Federal crime punishable by not just fines, but also prison time would also help, and giving his father Shanahan's job (with a big fat raise naturally) would probably seal the deal.

This is ignoring league-wide scoring.

Tavares finished 2nd in the league in scoring with 86 points in 2014-2015. 1 point away from winning the Art Ross. Scoring more than both Crosby and Ovechkin who were in their primes and finished 3rd and 4th in league scoring.

Marner was not peak Tavares. He came into a higher scoring league and plays on a higher scoring team.

This post is a great example of how badly stats need context in order to have value.

 

[thusk]

Everybody you mention is already making less than Marner. LOL. Did you know Kutch put up 144 points last year and won the Art Ross. I am sure when Marner comes close to that or is not asking to be overpaid again, nobody will be bringing up his empty calorie points.

If Kaprizov or Ranta were Leafs and asking for $14m, you can bet your life, we'd be bringing up empty calorie points and one series win in nine attempts.

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1- The point is not the salary or telling who is better, is just talking about trash talking about a player because of % of pp points.

The fact Kucherov got 37 % of his pts on pp last year doesn't make him a worst player

Draisaitl who had 37% of his production in regular season on PP( higher than marner this season) and 48% of his playoff production on PP? who care? and yes we talk about a 14M player. Did that make him a worst player at the end of the day? No

2- Playoff is a team success not aj individual one... They're no player in the world who can make win or lose a complete series alone.

 

[666]

“Until”? I would suggest the word “unless”, as “until” means that it’s actually going to happen and from what I’ve seen Mitch tries too hard in the playoffs and puts too much pressure on himself which leads to his creativity and effectiveness going out the window

And there are you making my point. He is going to have to win the Conn Smythe or else his legacy is tarnished. Why don't we have these absurd "pressure" comments about Matthews and especially Nylander? Nylander gets a couple of goals while playing atrocious defence yet he gets a pass because we don't have stats that accurately measure how horrible he is. And what about Matthews, does he "try too hard"?

 

[Hellcat]

Nobody is talking about Marner and the Hart. The main board is discussing Hart trophy and only two posters brought up Marners name for Hart in the 5 pages. One being ACC1224 and one other leaf poster.

Before you laugh at the main board (which for some reason is at rimes used as a rebuttal), show how off the main board was in predicting Hart early candidates in years past.

No one? A google search brings up 3 articles... someone is talking about it...

Mitch Marner Working His Way into Hart Trophy Conversation

Toronto Maple Leafs Mitch Marner is having the best season of his career and should be a Hart Trophy nominee by year's end. Is there a more underappreciated sup

editorinleaf.com

Maple Leafs’ Marner Deserving of Hart Trophy Consideration - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Toronto Maple Leafs forward Mitch Marner has been outstanding this season, and is deserving of being in the Hart Trophy conversation.

thehockeywriters.com

NHL Awards Watch: The MVP race tightens up -- and adds more contenders

At the midway mark of the 2024-25 season, are some awards already sewn up? We checked in with a panel of PHWA voters to check the temperature.

www.espn.com

 

[thewave]

“Until”? I would suggest the word “unless”, as “until” means that it’s actually going to happen and from what I’ve seen Mitch tries too hard in the playoffs and puts too much pressure on himself which leads to his creativity and effectiveness going out the window

Tries too hard? It doesn't matter what the new crazy brain narrative is. It's a result business, my god the excuses just keep rolling on in.

I could use this excuse for everyone now. Holmberg just wants to impress too much. Domi wants to be more than his daddy too much. Alex Nylander is just trying to hard to not live in the shadows of his brother. It never ever freaking ends.

Stopppp fabricating excusessss

 

[666]

No one? A google search brings up 3 articles... someone is talking about it...

Mitch Marner Working His Way into Hart Trophy Conversation

Toronto Maple Leafs Mitch Marner is having the best season of his career and should be a Hart Trophy nominee by year's end. Is there a more underappreciated sup

editorinleaf.com

Maple Leafs’ Marner Deserving of Hart Trophy Consideration - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Toronto Maple Leafs forward Mitch Marner has been outstanding this season, and is deserving of being in the Hart Trophy conversation.

thehockeywriters.com

NHL Awards Watch: The MVP race tightens up -- and adds more contenders

At the midway mark of the 2024-25 season, are some awards already sewn up? We checked in with a panel of PHWA voters to check the temperature.

www.espn.com

It's starting to get too easy around here .

 

[Hellcat]

Everybody you mention is already making less than Marner. LOL. Did you know Kutch put up 144 points last year and won the Art Ross. I am sure when Marner comes close to that or is not asking to be overpaid again, nobody will be bringing up his empty calorie points.

If Kaprizov or Ranta were Leafs and asking for $14m, you can bet your life, we'd be bringing up empty calorie points and one series win in nine attempts.

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Comparing a guy's salary who lives in a no tax State to a guy who lives in a 50% tax province is again for the 1 billionth time a pointless comparison. Gross salary means nothing, net take home is what you need to compare if you want to be fair.

Kuch's net take home was 14% more than Marner.

 

[666]

Really? Looking back as you said, you seemed pretty happy in the 11m signing thread.

"As a long time suffering Leaf fan, I have been waiting for one our local stars to have the passion and desire to come home to break this 50+ year SC drought and we finally go one." -ToneDog

You were even applauded by others for being one of the biggest advocators of that move.

"i have to give you credit, Tone. you were on this for a whole year, and you were v. detailed how this makes the most sense. you must be so happy now lol" -Daisy Jane

Which you acknowledged.

"Yeah I have been on the Tavares train for a long time and I think our fans deserve this and he deserves to be a Leaf." -ToneDog

In fact, you seemed to acknowledge that 11m was a discount:

"So many posters and insiders were posting that Tavares was not going to give any hometown discount to return to the Leafs. Well it turns out that he did and he did it because he wants to win and win for his home town, childhood team and he is willing to do it outside his comfort zone" -ToneDog

Heck, 2018 ToneDog even has some good advice for you when it comes to Marner.

"No Leaf fan is his right mind would bash a guy that bleeds blue and white and wants to win a cup for Toronto." -ToneDog

Do the young people still use the word pwned?

 

[sxvnert]

Nobody is talking about Marner and the Hart. The main board is discussing Hart trophy and only two posters brought up Marners name for Hart in the 5 pages. One being ACC1224 and one other leaf poster.

Before you laugh at the main board (which for some reason is at rimes used as a rebuttal), show how off the main board was in predicting Hart early candidates in years past.

Marner will win the hart once he plays for another team. Reporters will jump at chance to mock the leafs for letting a star player walk. Matthews was fortunate that no one else was even close. Choosing another player would have been too obvious.

 

[ToneDog]

Comparing a guy's salary who lives in a no tax State to a guy who lives in a 50% tax province is again for the 1 billionth time a pointless comparison. Gross salary means nothing, net take home is what you need to compare if you want to be fair.

Kuch's net take home was 14% more than Marner.

Sorry I am not a tax accountant. I am sure Mitch can afford the best accountants that can ensure he pays minimal taxes.

What about the endorsements? Does Mitch do them for free? What about the being paid in USD? What about hardware? Kutch should be taking home much more than 14% than Marner.

 

[BraveCanadian]

50% tax province lol

 

[Aashir Mallik]

After the last 6 year sample size, Marner should be getting more than Rantanen.

P/GP
Rantanen: 1.24
Marner: 1.23

P/GP (EN removed)
Marner: 1.16
Rantanen: 1.12

5v5 P/60
Marner: 2.84
Rantanen: 2.31

PP P/60
Marner: 7.00
Rantanen: 6.60

Add in that Marner is an elite PKer and defender, and he's easily worth more.

Man give it up

You aren’t convincing anyone marners a better player than rantanen.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Man give it up You aren’t convincing anyone marners a better player than rantanen.

Most people already know that Marner is a better player than Rantanen. Just trying to help the rest along. Sorry you don't like the facts.

 

[ACC1224]

Man give it up

You aren’t convincing anyone marners a better player than rantanen.

He doesn't need to be nor is it important that he is or isn't.

At least we aren't hearing the 'Nylander's better' comments any longer.

 

[francis246]

Marner will win the hart once he plays for another team. Reporters will jump at chance to mock the leafs for letting a star player walk. Matthews was fortunate that no one else was even close. Choosing another player would have been too obvious.

Matthews has always been compared to McDavid and Eichel. He missed the 2015 draft by a few days. He’s the same age as McDavid and Marner.. Eichel is a late birthday from the year prior. It would have been interesting to see where he would have feel in the 2015 draft.

 

[ACC1224]

Matthews has always been compared to McDavid and Eichel. He missed the 2015 draft by a few days. He’s the same age as McDavid and Marner.. Eichel is a late birthday from the year prior. It would have been interesting to see where he would have feel in the 2015 draft.

Strome would have fallen, Matthews would have been a Sabre, Eichel a Coyote and Marner still a Leaf, IMO.

 

[ToneDog]

Really? Looking back as you said, you seemed pretty happy in the 11m signing thread.

"As a long time suffering Leaf fan, I have been waiting for one our local stars to have the passion and desire to come home to break this 50+ year SC drought and we finally go one." -ToneDog

You were even applauded by others for being one of the biggest advocators of that move.

"i have to give you credit, Tone. you were on this for a whole year, and you were v. detailed how this makes the most sense. you must be so happy now lol" -Daisy Jane

Which you acknowledged.

"Yeah I have been on the Tavares train for a long time and I think our fans deserve this and he deserves to be a Leaf." -ToneDog

In fact, you seemed to acknowledge that 11m was a discount:

"So many posters and insiders were posting that Tavares was not going to give any hometown discount to return to the Leafs. Well it turns out that he did and he did it because he wants to win and win for his home town, childhood team and he is willing to do it outside his comfort zone" -ToneDog

Heck, 2018 ToneDog even has some good advice for you when it comes to Marner.

"No Leaf fan is his right mind would bash a guy that bleeds blue and white and wants to win a cup for Toronto." -ToneDog

LOL. I was happy they signed him but not at $11m, just like I am happy we signed Matty but not at his cap hit and term.

Funny how you managed to find those post but missed or ignored this to Kiwi.

For those who need glasses, I said.

Understand and all I am saying is that Leaf management will consider it. If they can't make the cap hit work they won't do it. Personally I don't see or like him at 10M. I prefer some kind of discount

How about this?

Here is a post close to the one I was referring to. You managed to not be able to find it and I am done looking for more. Go ahead and knock yourself out. LOL.

After reading it, how f***ing prophetic was I ? LOL.

As much as I love Tavares and want to see him in Blue and White, in his 9 years with the Isles he is a PPG player and not worth more than $10+Mx7. He took a discount with the Isles and might take a small one from the Leafs if he wants to win and win with the Leafs. Unlike the Habs, we are not desperate for a #1/#2C and with Matthews, Marner and Nylander about to be paid, we need to sign JT at a number that works for him and the team. The good thing is that there are only 31 more days or less to see how this plays out.

Again, I was happy they signed Tavares but was disappointed at the number. As for him taking a discount, the rumour was the Sharks offered $13m and Lou $11mx8. JT did take less money from the Leafs ($77m vs the $88m Lou offered). Don't let facts get in the way.

BTW, if I do not respond to you it is because you are on my ignore list. Somehow somebody wanted me to see and respond to your post. I think my response shows that I am not full of shit and I'll leave it at that rather than face a suspension.

Man give it up

You aren’t convincing anyone marners a better player than rantanen.

Ignore button is your friend.