Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Zero1]

I've thrown out my reasonable expectations at this point. I do think it will be for 8 years of term though.

Don't be surprised if he becomes the highest paid winger in NHL history by a fairly sizeable margin once is done. 13-14 mil aav.

That would be a disgusting contract… At that price you let him walk.

“The fans here not only deserve but demand a championship.There's no complacency. We're not here to sell jerseys." - Clown

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yet it takes 1 GM to fall in the 6 percent. When jobs are at stake free wallets at large. You know FA is over pay time. Been that way since before the cap era started.

I didn't say he would or wouldn't get $13M here or elsewhere, and I didn't use it as an "appeal to authority".

With all the comments along the lines of 'anyone would pay him $13M', I thought it interesting to see what 'anyone' says.

 

[Stephen]

I've thrown out my reasonable expectations at this point. I do think it will be for 8 years of term though.

Don't be surprised if he becomes the highest paid winger in NHL history by a fairly sizeable margin once is done. 13-14 mil aav.

16 years, $16 million. Final offer.

But in all seriousness when you think about what an NBA benchwarmer makes compared to the 3 biggest stars on the biggest team in the NHL, it’s extremely sad that Bettmannonics drives such a wedge between fanbase and players and everyone is so laser focused on the value of cap space in dollar form. All so we have cost certainty and a proliferation of navy blue Create A Franchise teams.

 

[notDatsyuk]

How many on the main board think the Leafs should re-sign him at more than 12M?

The question was how much you think your team should pay him on a 7 year deal.

From what I can tell, there are 2 votes each for $9, $10, $11, and $12, and one for $13 from people who regularly post here.

So a bit higher than the average, but not greatly so.

 

[Leaf Fans]

The question was how much you think your team should pay him on a 7 year deal.

From what I can tell, there are 2 votes each for $9, $10, $11, and $12, and one for $13 from people who regularly post here.

So a bit higher than the average, but not greatly so.

Yes, I realized that, but I meant generally.

 

[Gabriel426]

16 years, $16 million. Final offer.

But in all seriousness when you think about what an NBA benchwarmer makes compared to the 3 biggest stars on the biggest team in the NHL, it’s extremely sad that Bettmannonics drives such a wedge between fanbase and players and everyone is so laser focused on the value of cap space in dollar form. All so we have cost certainty and a proliferation of navy blue Create A Franchise teams.

Players movement in the NBA is one thing, as it seems like teams can just sign or trade for anyone as long as the players want to play for that team.
I guess the cap in the NBA is just miles ahead of the NHL.
Also teams are willing to trade their Superstars more often than not.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Confucius]

No rush unless Mitch wants to give us a deal. Otherwise may as well wait and see what other teams offer, it’s not like he won’t tell us his best offer and give us an opportunity to come close to it.

 

[Racer88]

No rush unless Mitch wants to give us a deal. Otherwise may as well wait and see what other teams offer, it’s not like he won’t tell us his best offer and give us an opportunity to come close to it.

You are 100% right and this is the intelligent thing to do. This narrative that they have to sign player quickly to avoid losing them is the same cowardly idea that has hurt the club in the past

 

[francis246]

Exactly. This is his character and reputation



Let him test. He ain't getting half the endorsements in the US. Who the heck is Mitch Marner haha

except that's false. he didn't walk out over role and time, it was a family matter...

"Mitch Marner took a leave from the London Knights during the 2014–15 season to attend to a personal matter involving his family."

not sure why we are creating false narratives

 

[Dekes For Days]

Do you really think 'I used stats' is a useful response?

That's not what I said. I thought responding with the type of stats to use would be useful, since you were using the wrong type. I thought you'd know what defensive metrics are, since we've been over this so many times, but I guess you forgot again.

 

[francis246]

The number has to be good. If he thinks the heat he got last summer was bad, wait until this summer if he has another poor playoff and the team is punted early.

what if he has an outstanding playoff but they still get ousted in the first round? I'm curious to see how fans would react because that could be a possibility. He could dominate but they still lose, then what? we only look at it from one angle for some reason. Mitch is gonna suck and the leafs will lose. There's so many different possibilities... Mitch could be average or awful and the leafs win a round or multiple rounds, Mitch could be great and the leafs win a round or multiple rounds, Mitch is outstanding and the leafs lose in the first round. All of those are possibilities. Why do we seemingly focus on one particular type of outcome?

In hockey, one person isn't going to make or break the series, you need the whole team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

except that's false. he didn't walk out over role and time, it was a family matter...
"Mitch Marner took a leave from the London Knights during the 2014–15 season to attend to a personal matter involving his family."
not sure why we are creating false narratives

That's pretty much all this board is these days. It's driven so many good posters away.

what if he has an outstanding playoff but they still get ousted in the first round? I'm curious to see how fans would react because that could be a possibility.

They'd still blame him, just like every other time it's happened. Actual performance has never mattered here. Scapegoats are picked beforehand, and then they are blamed for any Leaf outcome less than a cup. Which is partly why it's so important to sign him now. Re-signing him in the post-playoff media and fan tantrum is going to be a mess.

 

[LeafsFan89]

$11.5 million over 8 years would be the easy breezy sweet spot for Marner. Taking no less than Nylander, which is obviously important, no ego flex, feels team friendly-ish from a relative cap increase POV, still generational money. If he took that on this round it would feel like you could live with it and still build something around him.

8 years and $11.5 million is $92 million.
7 years from another team at $13 million is $91 million.

If the negotiations are contentious and the ask/demand creeps into Mackinnon and Matthews territory, with threats to test the market, it probably won’t end up in a good spot.

While I can agree, it's just we've won nothing with this core. Imagine this 11.5M spent elsewhere. We need to do something different.

I'd wait to see how the team does in the playoffs before signing him, if we go that route.

 

[francis246]

That's pretty much all this board is now.

They'd still blame him, just like every other time it's happened. It's never been about Marner's play. They've decided on Marner as their target, and he will be blamed for any Leaf outcome less than a cup.

If anything this little run without Matthews has made me focus my attention on Matthews more. We are paying him 13 sheets. Why is he not dominating more? Why are Willy and Marner able to elevate their games without him? It makes me go back to the bench situation in the playoffs. That whole discussion sheds a little more light on what may be going on. Anywho it’s unfortunate but I just hope for everyone’s sake, they have a great playoffs

 

[ACC1224]

except that's false. he didn't walk out over role and time, it was a family matter...

"Mitch Marner took a leave from the London Knights during the 2014–15 season to attend to a personal matter involving his family."

not sure why we are creating false narratives

False narratives is all they do.

 

[ACC1224]

what if he has an outstanding playoff but they still get ousted in the first round? I'm curious to see how fans would react because that could be a possibility. He could dominate but they still lose, then what? we only look at it from one angle for some reason. Mitch is gonna suck and the leafs will lose. There's so many different possibilities... Mitch could be average or awful and the leafs win a round or multiple rounds, Mitch could be great and the leafs win a round or multiple rounds, Mitch is outstanding and the leafs lose in the first round. All of those are possibilities. Why do we seemingly focus on one particular type of outcome?

In hockey, one person isn't going to make or break the series, you need the whole team.

Understanding Team sports isn’t for everyone.

You can bet there are some that would rather the team lose so they can blame Marner instead of hoping they win.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

While I can agree, it's just we've won nothing with this core. Imagine this 11.5M spent elsewhere. We need to do something different.

I'd wait to see how the team does in the playoffs before signing him, if we go that route.

That's pretty much how I'm thinking about it. I'd communicate the below to Marner's camp during the season (i.e. right now).

1) Standing offer throughout the regular season: $11.5M X 8
2) Post-season offer:

i) First round exit: $0
ii) 2nd round: $11.5M x 8
iii) Eastern Conference Final: $12.5M x 8
iv) Stanley Cup Final: $13M x 8
iv) Win Stanley Cup: $13.5M X 8. $14M X 8 if Conn Smythe.

 

[thewave]

except that's false. he didn't walk out over role and time, it was a family matter...

"Mitch Marner took a leave from the London Knights during the 2014–15 season to attend to a personal matter involving his family."

not sure why we are creating false narratives

It's also always a personal matter because nobody ever wants to air the dirty laundry. Guys go to rehab but say personal matter, this and that never the truth and almost always the best PR spin.

We can both have a standoff though. Prove us wrong. Prove you're right without citing a canned statement.

The Babcock thing though, that did happen and is factual and could be very telling in the way of plausibility.

 

[DarkKnight]

If anything this little run without Matthews has made me focus my attention on Matthews more. We are paying him 13 sheets. Why is he not dominating more? Why are Willy and Marner able to elevate their games without him? It makes me go back to the bench situation in the playoffs. That whole discussion sheds a little more light on what may be going on. Anywho it’s unfortunate but I just hope for everyone’s sake, they have a great playoffs

People should be focusing on Matthews more, big sexy had ONE goal the last two playoff series. He routinely doesn’t want the puck, never asserts himself, waits around for someone else to ignite the team, and somehow it’s all on Marner for our playoff failures? This little rub, again, like all his other injuries, show the team character does looks different with him out, perhaps it’s instructive. Everyone looks to the alpha male for leadership, if it’s spotty and unreliable, it trickles down, that’s sport. Marner deserves the playoff scorn, but 34 is the big dog and he don’t bark, so far.

It's also always a personal matter because nobody ever wants to air the dirty laundry. Guys go to rehab but say personal matter, this and that never the truth and almost always the best PR spin.

We can both have a standoff though. Prove us wrong. Prove you're right without citing a canned statement.

The Babcock thing though, that did happen and is factual and could be very telling in the way of plausibility.

You’re peddling nonsense and we have to prove your garbage wrong? Doesn’t work that way, the earth is round, you go prove yourself. Such bottom feeding bullshit dude, we get you don’t like him, don’t dumpster dive to prove a point, makes you look ridiculous.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We can both have a standoff though. Prove us wrong. Prove you're right without citing a canned statement.

Ah, the old 'say random stuff with no evidence, and then tell people to prove you wrong without citing any of the stuff that proves you wrong' approach.

 

[Nineteen67]

People should be focusing on Matthews more, big sexy had ONE goal the last two playoff series. He routinely doesn’t want the puck, never asserts himself, waits around for someone else to ignite the team, and somehow it’s all on Marner for our playoff failures? This little rub, again, like all his other injuries, show the team character does looks different with him out, perhaps it’s instructive. Everyone looks to the alpha male for leadership, if it’s spotty and unreliable, it trickles down, that’s sport. Marner deserves the playoff scorn, but 34 is the big dog and he don’t bark, so far.

8 years in and we don’t know if Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are good enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are more excited about the four nations than they are the playoffs.

That's pretty much how I'm thinking about it. I'd communicate the below to Marner's camp during the season (i.e. right now).

1) Standing offer throughout the regular season: $11.5M X 8
2) Post-season offer:

i) First round exit: $0
ii) 2nd round: $11.5M x 8
iii) Eastern Conference Final: $12.5M x 8
iv) Stanley Cup Final: $13M x 8
iv) Win Stanley Cup: $13.5M X 8. $14M X 8 if Conn Smythe.

What if he gets pushed out again but win a round? Would you still give 11.5 x 8?

 

[ACC1224]

8 years in and we don’t know if Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are good enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are more excited about the four nations than they are the playoffs.


What if he gets pushed out again but win a round? Would you still give 11.5 x 8?

No player is thinking of the Playoffs in November.

 

[kevsh]

That's pretty much how I'm thinking about it. I'd communicate the below to Marner's camp during the season (i.e. right now).

1) Standing offer throughout the regular season: $11.5M X 8
2) Post-season offer:

i) First round exit: $0
ii) 2nd round: $11.5M x 8
iii) Eastern Conference Final: $12.5M x 8
iv) Stanley Cup Final: $13M x 8
iv) Win Stanley Cup: $13.5M X 8. $14M X 8 if Conn Smythe.

I'm with Kyper on this one, it doesn't work that way.

There is no chance - zero - that Treliving has or will communicate to Marner that he's waiting to see how the playoffs go before they decide what to do with him. Because if he took that attitude, Marner would rightly say he's walking on July 1st, period.

His argument would be that Treliving didn't hold off on Nylander's deal until last year's playoffs, and it was pretty clear Auston was getting extended with no such conditions. So Mitch would simply ask "why play hardball with me?" And he has a point.

As a fan, I absolutely would want to see how things go in the playoffs before extending him - if they fail again, something drastic must be done. But I wish they took that approach years ago, or told Mitch when they re-signed Willie that he's their guy and moved Marner when they had their chance.

The Leafs didn't so here we are. And my belief is that MLSE's 100% intention is to re-sign him after the season is over, regardless of how the playoffs go, unless Mitch rejects every offer they throw at him and walks.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm with Kyper on this one, it doesn't work that way.

There is no chance - zero - that Treliving has or will communicate to Marner that he's waiting to see how the playoffs go before they decide what to do with him. Because if he took that attitude, Marner would rightly say he's walking on July 1st, period.

His argument would be that Treliving didn't hold off on Nylander's deal until last year's playoffs, and it was pretty clear Auston was getting extended with no such conditions. So Mitch would simply ask "why play hardball with me?" And he has a point.

As a fan, I absolutely would want to see how things go in the playoffs before extending him - if they fail again, something drastic must be done. But I wish they took that approach years ago, or told Mitch when they re-signed Willie that he's their guy and moved Marner when they had their chance.

The Leafs didn't so here we are. And my belief is that MLSE's 100% intention is to re-sign him after the season is over, regardless of how the playoffs go, unless Mitch rejects every offer they throw at him and walks.

This is why I expect to see him signed in the next couple months, unless you’re cutting bait there is no way you go into the playoffs without him signed. It ain’t happening, if we go to the playoffs, he’s gone and we aren’t letting him go. Just get it over with and hope for the best number possible, because Marner needs to understand how he will be perceived here moving forward.