Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[DarkKnight]

The same people who keep saying wait until playoffs wouldn’t be holding their criticism if Mitch was struggling. They just want to be able to point out his flaws without seeing any positives deserved or not.

I even agree for the most that Marner AND the rest of this teams core have a lot to prove when it really matters but all we have is what is in front of us right now and so far it’s been pretty damn good on his part.

Exactly, and this is the problem. People that say all that matters is the playoffs, are the FIRST to jump on every regular season miscue. The duplicity is incredible. So when he goes three games without a point and the team hits a skid, just stfu, because it doesn't matter right? Ya right lol.

 

[leafs in five]

I'm not sure point totals tell the whole story....For example, there are a lot of empty calorie points in there (11 points against Tampa in 23'...3 of which came in a 7-3 loss, and 3 of which came in a 7-2 win).

If you look at our last two series played - he has 6 points in 12 games. Not nearly good enough and he looked very off his game and uncomfortable in both series.

in the 7-3 loss he got assists on the 3-1 and 3-2 goals. scored the 1-0 goal in the 7-2 win. I think this phrase, the desire to use it, inspires some pretty bizarre opinions

 

[Stephen]

The complete leafs offence disapear under keefe because his entire system is base on create chance off the rush... so team started to wait in neutral by giving up nothing off the rusb and let leafs beat themself

I wouldn’t characterize Keefe hockey as rush based at all actually. It’s more like he treats the puck too preciously and values holding it and avoiding going in clean north south lanes where you could lose the puck. Which results in regroups, sluggish movement and overthink, and avoiding going to areas where there’s confrontation. At its worst it enables guys like Engvall, Holl, Kerfoot etc who have no business holding the puck too long into making risky retreats. Basically conceding a lot of the good attacking ice and taking the puck to areas prone to counter attack, which is why the defensive breakdowns always felt so catastrophic when they occurred. It’s like Pep Guardiola soccer applied to the wrong sport.

 

[IPS]

I wouldn’t characterize Keefe hockey as rush based at all actually. It’s more like he treats the puck too preciously and values holding it and avoiding going in clean north south lanes where you could lose the puck. Which results in regroups, sluggish movement and overthink, and avoiding going to areas where there’s confrontation. At its worst it enables guys like Engvall, Holl, Kerfoot etc who have no business holding the puck too long into making risky retreats. Basically conceding a lot of the good attacking ice and taking the puck to areas prone to counter attack, which is why the defensive breakdowns always felt so catastrophic when they occurred. It’s like Pep Guardiola soccer applied to the wrong sport.

It's precisely how you end up with hilarious giveaways from guys like Kerfoot in pivotal playoff game OT's.

FWIW Keefe's got a very fast team in New Jersey and maybe they just pull that style off a bit better.

 

[Stephen]

It's precisely how you end up with hilarious giveaways from guys like Kerfoot in pivotal playoff game OT's.

FWIW Keefe's got a very fast team in New Jersey and maybe they just pull that style off a bit better.

New Jersey has more speed, and it’s only December. Two factors that work in favour of Keefe hockey.

 

[thusk]

I wouldn’t characterize Keefe hockey as rush based at all actually. It’s more like he treats the puck too preciously and values holding it and avoiding going in clean north south lanes where you could lose the puck. Which results in regroups, sluggish movement and overthink, and avoiding going to areas where there’s confrontation. At its worst it enables guys like Engvall, Holl, Kerfoot etc who have no business holding the puck too long into making risky retreats. Basically conceding a lot of the good attacking ice and taking the puck to areas prone to counter attack, which is why the defensive breakdowns always felt so catastrophic when they occurred. It’s like Pep Guardiola soccer applied to the wrong sport.

The only thing i said is biggest part of chance created by leafs under keefe came off the rush and its more even true in playoff and its #1 reason why thry struggle to score.

If they dont create off the rush, theybare dancing foreever in the offensive zone waiting for the perfect play who never happen. And they are no bottom 6 player who able to hold the puck forever and create something from nothing

 

[Gabriel426]

The same people who keep saying wait until playoffs wouldn’t be holding their criticism if Mitch was struggling. They just want to be able to point out his flaws without seeing any positives deserved or not.

I even agree for the most that Marner AND the rest of this teams core have a lot to prove when it really matters but all we have is what is in front of us right now and so far it’s been pretty damn good on his part.

More to do with not getting the hopes up.

Which in a way, it is fair.

But at the same time, I don’t see why Leafs fans won’t enjoy the regular season esp since they are winning while playing playoffs style hockey.

I don’t think there were a lot of games so far this season where I felt Leafs was lucky to get the Win as they played like crap. If anything, there were a few games where I thought they should had won.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It's precisely how you end up with hilarious giveaways from guys like Kerfoot in pivotal playoff game OT's.

FWIW Keefe's got a very fast team in New Jersey and maybe they just pull that style off a bit better.

It’s almost like we should have been targeting Nichushkin, Lehkonen adds up front instead of Foligno Ritchie and O’Rielly…

Best hockey I saw from Keefe was his first month or so replacing Babcock when we were still young and fast and he wasn’t coaching scared yet. Best non-star line I saw him put together was the Hyman-Engvall-Mikheyev line that just skated teams into the ground. They never leaned into either of those things for some unexplainable reason and instead tried to duct tape Sportsnet’s wishlist of available gritty vets to the team.

 

[Evilhomer]

When this finally gets done, we will see headlines saying that Marner took a discount by signing for "only" $12.6 million (or some similar number). The media will go into full pro-Leafs spin mode.

 

[thewave]

When this finally gets done, we will see headlines saying that Marner took a discount by signing for "only" $12.6 million (or some similar number). The media will go into full pro-Leafs spin mode.

That's what happens when the team owns the media.

 

[Evilhomer]

That's what happens when the team owns the media.

Yup, 100% correct.

 

[Doublerum1975]

It's pretty obvious the difference lies with how Berube wants them to play vs Keefe.
Just different coaching styles, both can be effective but it was obviously time for a change here.

Marner looks more like he did under Hunter.

This

 

[Jacquestrapless]

 

[ACC1224]

Domino's That's Hockey: Playoffs or bust for Marner? - Video - TSN

The Talking Point: Mitch Marner is irreplaceable to the Maple Leafs - Video - TSN

Toronto's Mitch Marner will become an unrestricted free agent this summer, and is having a season to remember as he leads the Maple Leafs with 36 points in 25 games played this season. TSN' Director of Scouting Craig Button has more on Marner's value and explains why he should be a Leaf for life.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Leafs4Life77]

in the 7-3 loss he got assists on the 3-1 and 3-2 goals. scored the 1-0 goal in the 7-2 win. I think this phrase, the desire to use it, inspires some pretty bizarre opinions

He's been terrible the last two series and was a major reason we couldn't beat Boston. Looking at his career playoff totals and suggesting he hasn't underperformed in the playoffs is an interesting take.

 

[leafs in five]

He's been terrible the last two series and was a major reason we couldn't beat Boston. Looking at his career playoff totals and suggesting he hasn't underperformed in the playoffs is an interesting take.

sure maybe but at least I am not having to argue that the points he's scored in his career didn't matter

 

[ACC1224]

He's been terrible the last two series and was a major reason we couldn't beat Boston. Looking at his career playoff totals and suggesting he hasn't underperformed in the playoffs is an interesting take.

They all have.

 

[Leafs4Life77]

sure maybe but at least I am not having to argue that the points he's scored in his career didn't matter

Was never the point. The point was you said "I don't get all the hate...almost a point per game (in the playoffs)"

The criticism comes from people looking at just 6 points in the last two series (both losses), the underwhelming performances against Montreal, Columbus and Boston years ago - and there's a very consistent and obvious trend of underwhelming playoff play.

People rightfully don't give him a pass for being "almost a point per game" when they've won 1 series in 8 years.

 

[leafs in five]

Was never the point. The point was you said "I don't get all the hate...almost a point per game (in the playoffs)"

I didn't say that, I just replied to the reply about ECP (Empty Calorie Points). I don't really disagree with the criticism of the last two playoff series, though I think he was clearly still injured vs Boston.

 

[therealkoho]

SI just published a MM contract article based on info from an NHL insider. The Leafs it says are on track to sign Marner, "despite no proof of playoff success!"

I am so over this horsepuckey narrative that seemingly dumps all the fault at Marners feet. What really bugs me is that it has spilled over into LeaFland and most of them can't wait to spit sulphur at Mitch anytime they think he may have done something wrong, or even if he's done things right.

Goddamned I wish the media would just play it straight for once. We as in the Maple Leafs world should be damn happy we have a player of his caliber. It is true that this team hasn't had any real playoff success, Marner is but 1 of 23, and none of the other 22 has done SFA to help this team win.

A change however may finally be in the wind.

 

[ToneDog]

SI just published a MM contract article based on info from an NHL insider. The Leafs it says are on track to sign Marner, "despite no proof of playoff success!"

I am so over this horsepuckey narrative that seemingly dumps all the fault at Marners feet. What really bugs me is that it has spilled over into LeaFland and most of them can't wait to spit sulphur at Mitch anytime they think he may have done something wrong, or even if he's done things right.

Goddamned I wish the media would just play it straight for once. We as in the Maple Leafs world should be damn happy we have a player of his caliber. It is true that this team hasn't had any real playoff success, Marner is but 1 of 23, and none of the other 22 has done SFA to help this team win.

A change however may finally be in the wind.

Signing Marner would lock them into the 3 amigos who are 1 and 8 in the playoffs. Does not sound like a wise investment and hence why my position is to wait and see what we are buying. I mean if you are buying a car for harsh winters, would you not be afraid if that car only performed in warm weather?

 

[Obo]

Best non-star line I saw him put together was the Hyman-Engvall-Mikheyev line that just skated teams into the ground.

Yeah I was a big fan of that line and Hyman in particular played a completely different style than he did on the first line, taking the puck and driving the net a lot more instead of constantly looking for the hand-off. It must have been a nightmare to defend against so much speed and hustle and I wish they'd kept it together.

 

[mikeyz]

More to do with not getting the hopes up.

Which in a way, it is fair.

But at the same time, I don’t see why Leafs fans won’t enjoy the regular season esp since they are winning while playing playoffs style hockey.

I don’t think there were a lot of games so far this season where I felt Leafs was lucky to get the Win as they played like crap. If anything, there were a few games where I thought they should had won.

I am enjoying the regular season. I am just not getting my hopes up with Marner until he does what he’s currently doing in April. If he does it then, THEN I will be impressed.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Mitch is playing probably his best hockey of his career at the moment. Which is really saying something given all he has done in the league. Unfortunately for him, it really won't matter until he plays this way in the post season.

But for now, it's been a real treat watching him utterly dominate games. We are fortunate to have 3 players with that same ability to take over the game. This might be the closest we've ever come to seeing them all fire at the same time. As painful as it has been over the last 9 years at times, You can really never fault Mitch, Auston or Willy for their endless pursuit to be better year over year. Whether or not those 3 will end up being the right formula is anyones guess, but these 3 players have never stopped growing their games. They just consistently find more ways to dictate the game.

 

[Confucius]

Congrats Mitch, Leafs Molson Cup player of the month, points in every game except one during the month of November.