Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[ER89]

Your caveat is valid. So, we don't know how it translates to playoffs and the past is a caution flag. All we have is what we're seeing and you try to gleam any maturity to play, evolution, changes. To me, no question he's more direct, the backhand fluffy giveaway has largely disappeared, he moves forward, you see it more. He's more engaged physically this year. There does seem some maturity, I'd point to consistency and leadership with guys dropping like flies. There are good signs, with his game, and more importantly how we play as a team and how he's fitting in everywhere. Don't forget a lot of naysayers were convinced Berube wouldn't like Marner's style, he loves it, he's giving him more ice time. Always playoffs, it's different hockey, but we're playing a game now, that transitions easily to that reality and Marner is thriving within it. Bodes well and presents some justified optimism.

Def bodes well.

Issue is has he gotten over that mental block yet?

If he has.... Oh I'd love to have a 100 pt player on the leafs in the playoffs.

If he hasn't.... Going to be another quick run.

 

[thusk]

He's playing east-west and holding onto the puck a lot...

He's also still creative and making the "cute" plays.

He's playing like he always does, he's just playing really well right now.

He's playing a lot around the board to set play but no he doesn't play the same way.

The 2v2 last night is a pretty great exemple. Last year he would just goes around the board to buy some time to get his teammate in offensive zone... On that 2v2, he attacked the preds D and attrack both player on him and gave up free space to Matthews to make a play.

The same thing on the second penalty to bring a 5v3.... He attacked the net, forced the trip, created space for Rielly and set up the play. It's not east-west hockey, its 100 % north-south...

 

[DarkKnight]

He's playing a lot around the board to set play but no he doesn't play the same way.

The 2v2 last night is a pretty great exemple. Last year he would just goes around the board to buy some time to get his teammate in offensive zone... On that 2v2, he attacked the preds D and attrack both player on him and gave up free space to Matthews to make a play.

The same thing on the second penalty to bring a 5v3.... He attacked the net, forced the trip, created space for Rielly and set up the play. It's not east-west hockey, its 100 % north-south...

He's still Marner, but his game is maturing and he's showing more in some areas, because the system is different. People arguing everything is the same just show their lack of observational skills. All the beat guys, all the columnists, they're all wrong I guess. Some contrarians, who nobody would pay 8 cents for their hockey pontifications, they're right. Social media is funny.

 

[budzz]

I don't get all the hate. Mitch's numbers aren't great in the playoffs but overall not bad. Almost a point a game and we all know D tightens up everywhere in the playoffs. Only a minus in 2 series.

 

[ULF_55]

So marner is still marner.

I don't think much has changed with the player.

Berube <> Keefe

Coach determines how the team plays.

 

[kevsh]

I don't get all the hate. Mitch's numbers aren't great in the playoffs but overall not bad.

This is the fallout from no one ever telling these young players: "If you're going to ask for that kind of money, boy, you better produce and win or else."

Yes, his numbers aren't terrible. But when any NHL player gets paid nearly $11M (and at the time significantly more than almost every other player in the league) they better deliver in a big way. In Toronto x 10.

 

[notbias]

He's playing a lot around the board to set play but no he doesn't play the same way.

The 2v2 last night is a pretty great exemple. Last year he would just goes around the board to buy some time to get his teammate in offensive zone... On that 2v2, he attacked the preds D and attrack both player on him and gave up free space to Matthews to make a play.

The same thing on the second penalty to bring a 5v3.... He attacked the net, forced the trip, created space for Rielly and set up the play. It's not east-west hockey, its 100 % north-south...

The Matthews goal? He attacked the outside and gave the puck up before reaching a player...

He's playing the same.

 

[notdoneyet]

This is the fallout from no one ever telling these young players: "If you're going to ask for that kind of money, boy, you better produce and win or else."

Yes, his numbers aren't terrible. But when any NHL player gets paid nearly $11M (and at the time significantly more than almost every other player in the league) they better deliver in a big way. In Toronto x 10.

Geez this sounds like matthews

 

[thusk]

The Matthews goal? He attacked the outside and gave the puck up before reaching a player...

He's playing the same.

let's watch the replay again... Marner slow down at 1v2. When Matthews been there and he saw Josi tried to move i the other side to cover Matthews, he attacked Josi and forced him to come back on him = resulting both of Josi and Nyqvist was on Marner and nobody on Matthews. Yes yes he attacked Josi the second hes got an opportunity for it.

 

[DarkKnight]

Geez this sounds like matthews

Hang on, he has one playoff goal his last two playoff series.

 

[ACC1224]

Geez this sounds like matthews

It can only be one at fault.

 

[notbias]

let's watch the replay again... Marner slow down at 1v2. When Matthews been there and he saw Josi tried to move i the other side to cover Matthews, he attacked Josi and forced him to come back on him = resulting both of Josi and Nyqvist was on Marner and nobody on Matthews. Yes yes he attacked Josi the second hes got an opportunity for it.

Here are a bunch of examples of him doing the same sort of thing before... he's always attacked the middle of the ice...

You're trying to isolate a single play saying him playing like this is unique... it's not.

 

[Yall are crazy]

He's playing east-west and holding onto the puck a lot...

He's also still creative and making the "cute" plays.

He's playing like he always does, he's just playing really well right now.

Didn't you see him stick his ugly mug into the action. Pretty sure he got face washed. The wife must have been super excited to see him be all manly like haha

If I had a mug like Marner I wouldn't give a darn about saving my face. Probably go for that toothless crooked nose look what with the scars thing.

On a serious note glad he is playing Berube hockey as best he can.

How about you actually fix your appearance and your life first.

 

[Smif]

“He’s the guy to play with out there, he’s the guy that drives play”. AM

I was told he's not a play driver tho.

 

[Smif]

There is only one thing that matters in 2025. Stanley Cup victory.

If you watch hockey only for the pleasure of winning you will be a very disappointed person.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I don't get all the hate. Mitch's numbers aren't great in the playoffs but overall not bad. Almost a point a game and we all know D tightens up everywhere in the playoffs. Only a minus in 2 series.

View attachment 940368

a super quick glance and he was awful in montreal and boston3, bad in columbus, and average to great in everything else.

Marner's standard's are higher because of the player he is. This is a 30+ goal 100+ point player, and the fact that his best ever goal pace in the playoffs is 23 and defencemen like bouchard and makar have more goals than him speaks volumes to his drop in effectiveness. At this point it's not just about the 11m dollar price tag, but the actual players talent. Marner could be making 9 and he should still be better than this, because he has all the skill to do it. Scoring goes down in playoffs but marner has multiple times gone from a 95-105 point player down to a 45-60 point player. Dropoffs of that magnitude are not just playoff defence.

Marner's playmaking totals aren't actually that bad series to series, with only 23-24 and 18-19 being the exceptions, those I can buy being a bit down from playoff defence.
He has 39 in 57 --> 56 in 82 which is a drop off from his usual 64 but that's a not too steep of a drop.
But 11 in 57 --> 15 in 82 vs a 30 goal is far too much, that's halfing the totals. His goal scoring threat that he builds up every regular season is flushed down the toilet come playoff time and that is so infuriating.
Everytime he used to pull up and go to the point to float some wrister on net made me want to rip my hair out. I get it worked on Vasi, but it's a low percentage play from a high IQ player. If jarnkrok or holmberg did it then whatever they are depth players just getting faceoffs and keeping possession, but not marner, he needs to do better. I am happy to see he isn't doing it as often, especially recently. If berube can coach that out of him, and he can accept that, then he is going to be a much better player for it.

None of this is specfic to Marner btw, just that this is a marner thread so I focused it to be on him.

 

[cyris]

I was told he's not a play driver tho.

Clearly random HF posters that hate Mitch know more about it than Auston Matthews.

 

[francis246]

If you watch hockey only for the pleasure of winning you will be a very disappointed person.

This is what I fail to understand. Why do some people not want to enjoy the regular season? Its apart of the journey

 

[DarkKnight]

I was told he's not a play driver tho.

All we hear are "engine", "driver", "catalyst", "carrying" from everyone on the team. Why is some fan going to suggest otherwise, when hockey people are the one saying it? It's why these debates aren't really, it's just waste of time noise. And yes, playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

‘Watching him dance’: Maple Leafs' Marner makes Team Canada at peak confidence

Mitch Marner is that rare winger who makes everyone sharing the same sweater — whether that Maple Leaf be shaded blue or red — look a notch better. On Wednesday, he reminded the hockey world why his selection to Team Canada had to be a no-brainer.

www.sportsnet.ca

“The one thing about Marner is, he’s as smart a player as this league has not only seen this year, but has ever seen,” Team Canada head coach and unofficial Marner Fan Club president Jon Cooper once said.

He’s been on fire,” smiled Nylander, who knows how far a stellar contract year can go.

“It’s a pleasure to see when you’re on the bench, watching him make those plays and dance out there.”

“He’s one of the smartest players in the league,” Nashville’s Norris-winning defenceman Roman Josi said. “When he has the puck, he sees things that other players don’t see, and he always makes something out of nothing. You never quite know what he’s going to do, so it’s challenging.”

Chris Tanev is student of the game’s first-line forwards. He has been asked to shut them all down. So, which one reminds him of Marner?

“That’s a great question,” Tanev says. He pauses, searching for a name. “I have to think about it a little more. Just because Mitch is so good 200 feet. Obviously, we know how good of a passer and playmaker he is, but he’s just as good in our own end and making plays to help out the D and having good sticks and in the right position to knock pucks down or break up rushes. So, he’s a full 200-foot player, and he’s been incredible for us.

“He’s been the best player on his team for his whole life.”

And, frequently, the busiest.

 

[cyris]

This is what I fail to understand. Why do some people not want to enjoy the regular season? Its apart of the journey

The same people who keep saying wait until playoffs wouldn’t be holding their criticism if Mitch was struggling. They just want to be able to point out his flaws without seeing any positives deserved or not.

I even agree for the most that Marner AND the rest of this teams core have a lot to prove when it really matters but all we have is what is in front of us right now and so far it’s been pretty damn good on his part.

 

[leafs in five]

from what I see he is skating north, south, east, west, southwest, northeast, etc

 

[ToneDog]

The same people who keep saying wait until playoffs wouldn’t be holding their criticism if Mitch was struggling. They just want to be able to point out his flaws without seeing any positives deserved or not.

I even agree for the most that Marner AND the rest of this teams core have a lot to prove when it really matters but all we have is what is in front of us right now and so far it’s been pretty damn good on his part.

Those people do not want to see the team pay him $13m now. They want to see him do it in the playoffs before paying him. We saw 120 point pace Willie turn into PPG Willie once he signed. Once they sign Mitch, they are locked into the 3 amigos. If he plays like he has the last 2 playoff series, I'm not locking myself in. Rather let him walk that paint myself into a corner. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Don't pay the ferryman til he gets you to the other side.

 

[Leafs4Life77]

I don't get all the hate. Mitch's numbers aren't great in the playoffs but overall not bad. Almost a point a game and we all know D tightens up everywhere in the playoffs. Only a minus in 2 series.

View attachment 940368

I'm not sure point totals tell the whole story....For example, there are a lot of empty calorie points in there (11 points against Tampa in 23'...3 of which came in a 7-3 loss, and 3 of which came in a 7-2 win).

If you look at our last two series played - he has 6 points in 12 games. Not nearly good enough and he looked very off his game and uncomfortable in both series.

 

[leafs in five]

The 2v2 last night is a pretty great exemple. Last year he would just goes around the board to buy some time to get his teammate in offensive zone... On that 2v2, he attacked the preds D and attrack both player on him and gave up free space to Matthews to make a play.

the play I saw he kind of delayed and bought himself space along the wall and then accelerated a bit before doing a between the legs drop pass in the opposite direction to the net. very much the kind of play that has driventhe north-south crowd mad his whole career.