Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[Antropovsky]

Ironically the Tampa example is probably good lesson to players not to give a team a break on the caphit, since they'll not return the favor when the time comes

Tampa has its attraction. Beautiful weather, not recognized in the public as much, tax benefits. Players want to play there.

What player did Tampa a favor and it wasnt returned? Stamkos tries to get more in 2016, met with other organizations and Tampa was prepared to let him walk. They stood firm on what they thought he was worth and he ultimately resigned

 

[thewave]

Seen a dog take out it's hip or hind leg just like that. Mitch can afford surgery though, the show goes on! Next up awwwwws for cats on ice.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Of course not, but not just because he wouldn't take less but also because Toronto will never trade him.

On Overdrive there was an interesting back-and-forth on Marner. Hayes contends that the Leafs will re-sign him regardless of how the team does in the post-season (and maybe even before then) because MLSE is all-in on these stars, while O-Dog insists they can't bring him back if they flop again.

The realist vs. the fan.

The realist has seen MLSE's unwavering philosophy regarding this team and how to manage it and has seen nothing to indicate they're going to shift that philosophy now, and probably ever. The fan doesn't acknowledge reality and wants it another way.

The fan wants a winning team, the realist knows that making money is the priority and winning isn't what the business is about.

I watched that. I’m solidly in O-Dogs camp. It would be irresponsible of them to sign Marner and Tavares before the playoffs.
If Marner and the Leafs Rick it out if the park then pay the man but if he decides to really stick it to them then send him backing.
If the Leafs flame out again then major changes will be required and All names should be on the table

Speaking as a fan, I'm solidly in O'Dogs camp as well. And as I said above, that's because like O'Dog, I want a winning team.

I think Rantanen will get a hair more given he has a bit of extra leverage since he was just traded for. The Canes also have enough cap flexibility to make him their cornerstone piece.

At the moment I'm predicting both guys will have new deals that start with a 13....

This seems likely to me as well.

Tampa has its attraction. Beautiful weather, not recognized in the public as much, tax benefits. Players want to play there.

What player did Tampa a favor and it wasnt returned? Stamkos tries to get more in 2016, met with other organizations and Tampa was prepared to let him walk. They stood firm on what they thought he was worth and he ultimately resigned

I'm not following your thought process here. Tampa standing firm is doing Stamkos a favor?

 

[Antropovsky]

The fan wants a winning team, the realist knows that making money is the priority and winning isn't what the business is about.

Speaking as a fan, I'm solidly in O'Dogs camp as well. And as I said above, that's because like O'Dog, I want a winning team.

This seems likely to me as well.

I'm not following your thought process here. Tampa standing firm is doing Stamkos a favor?

No, I'm saying Stamkos didn't do Tampa any favors. The poster I responded to said players gave Tampa breaks on their cap hits and Tampa didn't return the favor. I'm assuming the poster is referring to Stamkos.

Stamkos didn't do what Mackinnon did or Crosby did and say "I'm gonna take less to win" or do what Crosby/Mackinnon have done and signed without any struggle, hold out or controversy. Unlike Stamkos who in 2016 held out as long as possible, interviewed with numerous teams and tried to squeeze as much money as he could from Tampa, ultimately resigning on June 29th, just before free agency hit.

 

[Menzinger]

Tampa has its attraction. Beautiful weather, not recognized in the public as much, tax benefits. Players want to play there.

What player did Tampa a favor and it wasnt returned? Stamkos tries to get more in 2016, met with other organizations and Tampa was prepared to let him walk. They stood firm on what they thought he was worth and he ultimately resigned

Stamkos could have gotten more then 8.5 on the free agency market in 2016. The Leafs alone were reported to offer more, and they likely weren't the only one

Tampa's other factors drive the cost down, no argument there, but he took a haircut to stay.

 

[Gabriel426]

Stamkos could have gotten more then 8.5 on the free agency market in 2016. The Leafs alone were reported to offer more, and they likely weren't the only one

Tampa's other factors drive the cost down, no argument there, but he took a haircut to stay.

Stamkos in 2016 is quite different as TB was actually close to a Cup with Vas, Hedman and Kuch. Leafs at that time was HOPE. As none of the guys even played in the NHL beside that 15games or so of Willie.
Leafs was never truly in the running and TB knows that, Stamkos used the Leafs to try to get a better offer but TB called his bluff.

 

[Antropovsky]

Stamkos could have gotten more then 8.5 on the free agency market in 2016. The Leafs alone were reported to offer more, and they likely weren't the only one

Tampa's other factors drive the cost down, no argument there, but he took a haircut to stay.

His intent wasn't to do them a favor though, he fought hard for every dime he received and Tampa didnt ask him to do them any favors. It was strictly business between both parties.

According to chatgpt (not sure how correct it is), Leafs would've had to offer 11 million to Stamkos to match Tampa's 8.5 (with taxes being considered). Also Stamkos gets the 8th year with Tampa, which Toronto couldn't have offered anymore than 7. Leafs paid Tavares 11 million the following year, so I don't think their offer would topped the 8.5x8 Tampa offered. Which also is likely why Toronto brought in Canadian Tires CEO to try and persuade him with endorsement opportunities.

Then there is the fact that Stamkos seemed to love Florida and staying out of the limelight AND of course being captain and playing with incredible teammates etc.

According to chatgpt:

To match the $8.5 million contract Stamkos signed with Tampa Bay in 2016, the Toronto Maple Leafs would have had to offer approximately $11 million per year to give him an equivalent net income. Tax differences were a significant factor in Stamkos' decision to stay in Tampa Bay.

 

[Evilhomer]

Seen a dog take out it's hip or hind leg just like that. Mitch can afford surgery though, the show goes on! Next up awwwwws for cats on ice.

You have to be an ass to take a dog out onto any ice. A hip injury in a dog never heals well.

 

[thewave]

You have to be an ass to take a dog out onto any ice. A hip injury in a dog never heals well.

I am sure some people think we are joking but it's dangerous as hell for a dog. Not amused at all

 

[Gary Nylund]

His intent wasn't to do them a favor though, he fought hard for every dime he received and Tampa didnt ask him to do them any favors. It was strictly business between both parties.

That seems accurate.

 

[Apex Predator]

Yeah, but the taxes…

He’s doing the finger thing that means taxes!

 

[Leafsfan74]

Ten years from now when the core retire together in Toronto, without a Cup obviously, and the owners cheer on their latest band of losers who didn't win a thing but they padded the bottom line of the longest current suffering championship team in all of major team sports; how many of you will buy a ticket to give them all a standing O?

This team isn't going to change and it isn't going to win anything. Be clear eyed about it and enjoy watching and cheering, but don't expect a Cup.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys, this is the city you were born into.

 

[Jojalu]

Ten years from now when the core retire together in Toronto, without a Cup obviously, and the owners cheer on their latest band of losers who didn't win a thing but they padded the bottom line of the longest current suffering championship team in all of major team sports; how many of you will buy a ticket to give them all a standing O?

This team isn't going to change and it isn't going to win anything. Be clear eyed about it and enjoy watching and cheering, but don't expect a Cup.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys, this is the city you were born into.

It's not the longest drought in pro sports but it's longer than it should be.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ten years from now when the core retire together in Toronto, without a Cup obviously, and the owners cheer on their latest band of losers who didn't win a thing but they padded the bottom line of the longest current suffering championship team in all of major team sports; how many of you will buy a ticket to give them all a standing O?

This team isn't going to change and it isn't going to win anything. Be clear eyed about it and enjoy watching and cheering, but don't expect a Cup.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys, this is the city you were born into.

I wish this post didn't seem like an accurate prophecy.

There are a few people here who are poised to deliver the standing O the minute it's over. They're the people who are completely unfazed by our playoff record, and are constantly posting things like Marner climbing another rung on this or that all-time Leaf list, saying how lucky we are to have these great players play for us and so on. I can't say I'm even close to understanding people who faithfully praise this group of cupcakes but they do exist.

 

[LeafEgo]

I think Rantanen will get a hair more given he has a bit of extra leverage since he was just traded for. The Canes also have enough cap flexibility to make him their cornerstone piece.

At the moment I'm predicting both guys will have new deals that start with a 13....

Perhaps, but Canes may start inquiring about this 'significant discount' he keeps talking about.

 

[Evilhomer]

I am sure some people think we are joking but it's dangerous as hell for a dog. Not amused at all

It's like telling someone to take a horse out onto the ice. Their structure and joints aren't designed for it. I have a Vizsla that loves to stalk ducks and geese in icy water, and I'd rather have her in the water than on the ice itself.

 

[Racer88]

The most Marner will get in UFA is 14x7=$98 mil . Leafs offer 100 million over 8 years it’s 12.5 mil cap hit. This deal isn’t hard to get done, the fact it’s not done is pretty telling.

12.5 is way to much…….unless we have success in the playoffs and he is a big part of that.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Ten years from now when the core retire together in Toronto, without a Cup obviously, and the owners cheer on their latest band of losers who didn't win a thing but they padded the bottom line of the longest current suffering championship team in all of major team sports; how many of you will buy a ticket to give them all a standing O?

This team isn't going to change and it isn't going to win anything. Be clear eyed about it and enjoy watching and cheering, but don't expect a Cup.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys, this is the city you were born into.

Brother, this is the city that welcomed back Vince Carter with a Maurice Richard standing ovation. When these chumps get their jerseys retired we won't be hearing about the time Wayne Gretzky, a guy who doesn't criticize anyone ever, called these bums out.



We'll be hearing again how this is the greatest Leafs era ever

 

[Racer88]

Brother, this is the city that welcomed back Vince Carter with a Maurice Richard standing ovation. When these chumps get their jerseys retired we won't be hearing about the time Wayne Gretzky, a guy who doesn't criticize anyone ever, called these bums out.



We'll be hearing again how this is the greatest Leafs era ever

Gretzky is a far right lunatic. I wouldn’t listen to a word he say

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

What difference does it make whether Sakic or McFarlane or both decided to not pay Ranta and trade him instead? Knit picking?

There is no chance that this was done without Sakic's endorsement. A move like this isn't a GM level decision. President and maybe even ownership would have to give the okay.

 

[CelticDruid]

Gretzky is a far right lunatic. I wouldn’t listen to a word he say

And no sarcasm tag by you!

That's a weird thing to say about Gretzky.

 

[Hallonbroder]

And no sarcasm tag by you!

That's a weird thing to say about Gretzky.

It’s not - he is.

 

[Hallonbroder]

Who would you say are comparable to Marner in the NHL today though? People are now filly occupied to compare him to Rantanen because of their situations, but they are not the same kind of player. I don’t get the Nylander comparisons either.

I e, what small, playmaking wingers that doesn’t score much is he really comparable to? Curious who people mention and compare cap hits

 

[IPS]

Who would you say are comparable to Marner in the NHL today though? People are now filly occupied to compare him to Rantanen because of their situations, but they are not the same kind of player. I don’t get the Nylander comparisons either.

I e, what small, playmaking wingers that doesn’t score much is he really comparable to? Curious who people mention and compare cap hits

Panarin is the first one that jumps to mind, though is not the caliber of 2-way player Marner is. What Panarin got as a UFA is by far the biggest comparable that works in Marner's favor.

 

[Hallonbroder]

Panarin is the first one that jumps to mind, though is not the caliber of 2-way player Marner is. What Panarin got as a UFA is by far the biggest comparable that works in Marner's favor.

Hm, still think that Panarins ability to score goals are what separates them though.