Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[hamzarocks]

“Much worse” and “Slightly better” tells us that your post is a trap.

MM --> 68 in 50 = 112 per 82

AM34 --> 38 in 35 = 89 per 82, give him a pass since hes been better tjan Marner mostly outside of this year and 2019 & 2023. But marner is showing he can produce when Matthews struggles/sucks


WN --> 50 in 50 - 82 pts per 82. 30 pts back of marner, with the gap in offensive production back to where it generally was for most of their primes outside of last year.

The only trap is having to pay these three guys as if they are three top 5 players in the league when only matthews is every other season and they all suck hard in the playoffs for 11M+ players

 

[francis246]

MM --> 68 in 50 = 112 per 82

AM34 --> 38 in 35 = 89 per 82, give him a pass since hes been better tjan Marner mostly outside of this year and 2019 & 2023. But marner is showing he can produce when Matthews struggles/sucks


WN --> 50 in 50 - 82 pts per 82. 30 pts back of marner, with the gap in offensive production back to where it generally was for most of their primes outside of last year.

The only trap is having to pay these three guys as if they are three top 5 players in the league when only matthews is every other season and they all suck hard in the playoffs for 11M+ players

It just sucks because once you give out those contracts there’s no turning back. You’re not going to be able to keep them at their numbers as the cap rises. It was a bad gamble.

 

[Racer88]

It just sucks because once you give out those contracts there’s no turning back. You’re not going to be able to keep them at their numbers as the cap rises. It was a bad gamble.

Yup. It’s ride or die with this core

 

[Martin Skoula]

Or just skate at him aggressively a few times and drop him on his ass and watch him fall apart. You don't even need to hit him. He can't deal with it.

Even if you steelman his case and assume he shows up in the playoffs 100% locked in and un-shambleable, the refs are calling penalties, both goalies are playing steady normal games, etc there’s still a clear way to limit the damage his line + the PP can do if he continues to be the primary puck carrier.

When he’s not the one carrying and distributing I actually like his game for the playoffs, that little streak he had this year sneaking in tight and finishing off scrambles is something that can actually work since you can’t gameplan against it without giving Matthews time and space to pick a corner. But that’s not a 100+ point 12+ mil guy, that’s something between a rich man’s Konecny and a prime Marchand without any of the grit and extracurriculars.

 

[Divine]

Would you ever see Marner make a quote like this?

 

[Racer88]

Would you ever see Marner make a quote like this?

Don’t hold your breath for money Marner to ever think like that. It’s going to be subtle threats of open your bank account or I’m leaving.
I can hardly wait for the leaked reports of offer sheets. lol

 

[Aashir]

Would you ever see Marner make a quote like this?

Tbf it’s easy to say this afterwards

He was offered 11.75, let’s say market value is 13, then 11.75 is that significant discount

 

[thewave]

Tbf it’s easy to say this afterwards

He was offered 11.75, let’s say market value is 13, then 11.75 is that significant discount

He probably came back with 12.5m or the same as Mack.and they said see ya

 

[Aashir]

He probably came back with 12.5m or the same as Mack.and they said see ya

I guess they were firm with their internal cap structure

I think it’s a good thing, he isn’t better than mackinnon or Makar and compound that with they have to pay Makar and I can at least see the rationale behind the move, but we will see how it plays out.

 

[thewave]

I guess they were firm with their internal cap structure

I think it’s a good thing, he isn’t better than mackinnon or Makar and compound that with they have to pay Makar and I can at least see the rationale behind the move, but we will see how it plays out.

The Leafs have a unique opportunity to offer a similar contract in a take it or leave it scenario or request he waives. That could be done.

 

[IPS]

Tbf it’s easy to say this afterwards

He was offered 11.75, let’s say market value is 13, then 11.75 is that significant discount

I would have guessed he viewed his market value (contrary to his public demands of 14M) at 12.45M (so basically what Mackinnon currently makes), of the projected 92.4M cap next year, it's about exactly what Pastrnak got (13.5ish %) when he signed. Colorado likely told him nope, they probably wanted him closer to Matt Tkachuk's number of 11.5%, which would net him about $10.62M of a $92.4M projected cap.

 

[kevsh]

Would you ever see Marner make a quote like this?

Of course not, but not just because he wouldn't take less but also because Toronto will never trade him.

On Overdrive there was an interesting back-and-forth on Marner. Hayes contends that the Leafs will re-sign him regardless of how the team does in the post-season (and maybe even before then) because MLSE is all-in on these stars, while O-Dog insists they can't bring him back if they flop again.

The realist vs. the fan.

The realist has seen MLSE's unwavering philosophy regarding this team and how to manage it and has seen nothing to indicate they're going to shift that philosophy now, and probably ever. The fan doesn't acknowledge reality and wants it another way.

 

[francis246]

.

The Leafs have a unique opportunity to offer a similar contract in a take it or leave it scenario or request he waives. That could be done.

Dreger on Rantanen's shocking trade, differences between Marner and Rantanen's situations and more

TSN hockey insider Darren Dreger joins us to chat about the Maple Leafs losing to the Senators, the blockbuster three-team deal centred around Mikko Rantanen, if the Hurricanes are willing to pay Rantanen what he wants, the differences between Mitch Marner and Rantanen's situations and more.

www.tsn.ca

Dreger makes it seem like there isn’t going to be any hard ball from the leafs. He’s saying if Marner wanted to sit down with the leafs and hammer out the deal, they would immediately ,

Also says one of the hold ups for Marner and Rantanen signing is the new cba and waiting on the final cap number for next year

 

[Racer88]

Of course not, but not just because he wouldn't take less but also because Toronto will never trade him.

On Overdrive there was an interesting back-and-forth on Marner. Hayes contends that the Leafs will re-sign him regardless of how the team does in the post-season (and maybe even before then) because MLSE is all-in on these stars, while O-Dog insists they can't bring him back if they flop again.

The realist vs. the fan.

The realist has seen MLSE's unwavering philosophy regarding this team and how to manage it and has seen nothing to indicate they're going to shift that philosophy now, and probably ever. The fan doesn't acknowledge reality and wants it another way.

I watched that. I’m solidly in O-Dogs camp. It would be irresponsible of them to sign Marner and Tavares before the playoffs.
If Marner and the Leafs Rick it out if the park then pay the man but if he decides to really stick it to them then send him backing.
If the Leafs flame out again then major changes will be required and All names should be on the table

 

[ToneDog]

I would have guessed he viewed his market value (contrary to his public demands of 14M) at 12.45M (so basically what Mackinnon currently makes), of the projected 92.4M cap next year, it's about exactly what Pastrnak got (13.5ish %) when he signed. Colorado likely told him nope, they probably wanted him closer to Matt Tkachuk's number of 11.5%, which would net him about $10.62M of a $92.4M projected cap.

Friedman said they were ready to make him the highest paid winger at $11.75m. My guess is he thinks he is worth Draisailt money but would take a discount at MacKinnon money. Clearly Sakic disagreed or their ownership said, hell no. So they lose him for 750k-$1.5m. Some here would have gladly paid the difference to keep their 3rd best player. Right or wrong, they got a good return. They might be weaker this year but they should be stronger next year and beyond because they got a solid return.

 

[Ciao]

I liked the Avs' message to Rantanen: Take a hike.

I hope the Leafs heard that, too. And Marner.

 

[leafan11]

The most Marner will get in UFA is 14x7=$98 mil . Leafs offer 100 million over 8 years it’s 12.5 mil cap hit. This deal isn’t hard to get done, the fact it’s not done is pretty telling.

 

[ToneDog]

The most Marner will get in UFA is 14x7=$98 mil . Leafs offer 100 million over 8 years it’s 12.5 mil cap hit. This deal isn’t hard to get done, the fact it’s not done is pretty telling.

I would agree until Sakic showed that he would not pay Ranta more than $11.75m. No sane GM is giving Marner or Ranta $14m after this trade IMO.

 

[thewave]

I would agree until Sakic showed that he would not pay Ranta more than $11.75m. No sane GM is giving Marner or Ranta $14m after this trade IMO.

You have to be an Ovi to be a winger and make top C money. Imagine that a top goal scorer in the league gets paid highest. I guess Matthews isn't overpaid as well, imagine that he is a C by chance.

2025 should be marked the year of the great delusion. Where wingers think they are worth C money.

 

[ToneDog]

You have to be an Ovi to be a winger and make top C money. Imagine that a top goal scorer in the league gets paid highest. I guess Matthews isn't overpaid as well, imagine that he is a C by chance.

2025 should be marked the year of the great delusion. Where wingers think they are worth C money.

Marner and his camp have been delusional since he was drafted. Dubas had no balls negotiating with any of the 3 amigos. Held all the leverage and gave them everything including his lunch money.

 

[ToneDog]

Carlo thinks Marner gets more than 34 and cap will rise by $10m. I don't see cap rising that much. If it does, it is possible because Leafs won't let him walk for nothing and everybody and his uncle knows it.

 

[Menzinger]

He should just sign a 1 year contract, that way he could get an increase every year until he can't.

Be interesting to see who gets more Rantanen or marner?

I think Rantanen will get a hair more given he has a bit of extra leverage since he was just traded for. The Canes also have enough cap flexibility to make him their cornerstone piece.

At the moment I'm predicting both guys will have new deals that start with a 13....

 

[Menzinger]

Really says something about the mentality of the team that when the cap rises all they're thinking about is more money in their pockets, not how much more the team could be improved so they could actually win something.

Teams who've won cups like Tampa and Colorado don't seem to tolerate their players doing this. With the history Stammer had with the Lightning I remember back in the summer people were so shocked and anguished how Tampa could possibly treat their long-time captain / team canada alumni like that but the management is very adamant on nobody putting money over the team (and this was also with Stamkos coming off a great year, much like w'e're seeing with Tavares this year). Ditto with what we just saw with Colorado.

Ironically the Tampa example is probably good lesson to players not to give a team a break on the caphit, since they'll not return the favor when the time comes

 

[ToneDog]

That's right. It's just a toy company, more accurately a merchandising company. 700m to name the Arena, buy the TV rights, sell it off in bit to Prime TSN etc etc. Jerseys cups, Bobble heads, License plates, the list goes on and on. The organization itself creates itself and the atmosphere. We are the result of their faulty product. If they were winning our criticisms wouldn't exist.

It's honestly shameful how this team is run.

Don't forget Oreo. How fitting, given how this core loves their cookies.

 

[DarkKnight]