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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

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GoonieFace said:
This comp stuff is nonsense. The quality of linemates is far more important. How would Mitch fair playing with Holmberg and McMann, or whatever leftovers Nylander gets saddled with.
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5v5 Last 4 years in the playoffs:

Matthews or Tavares with Marner:
Goals for: 22
Goals Against: 13

Matthews or Tavares with Nylander:
Goals for: 9
Goals Against: 11

Marner away from Matthews/Tavares:
Goals for: 6
Goals Against: 3

Nylander away from Matthews/Tavares:
Goals for: 9
Goals Against: 8

Nylander has, of course, been a difference maker in other areas.
 
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francis246 said:
I don’t think Rantanen ever had any intention on resigning. Seemed like things soured over in Colorado about a year ago. There’s some videos of Rantanen yelling at some of the players on the ice. I think there’s been some tension in that locker room for a while, even with Toews comments a while back. Other players also speaking out against MacKinnon’s leadership style. That isn’t happening in Toronto, to our knowledge.

Every situation is different, I think with Rantanen there was a clear disconnect between how he feels the organization should view him and how the organization views him. I think Rantanen feels he’s just as good if not better than MacKinnon and that’s obviously created tension. There’s been a lot of smoke around that throughout the summer and reports saying negotiations were pretty contentious. I’m not sure Marner is trying to be the alpha of the team or establish himself as an alpha. So while there are some comparisons to Marner’s situations and Rantanen’s, it’s not an apples to apples situation. Also factor in one has a limited NTC, the other has a full move.
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It’s a pretty big stretch for those trying to convince themselves that these situations are the same.
 
TheDoldrums said:
That's not market value then, which is "the price an asset would fetch in the market, based on the price that buyers are willing to pay and sellers are willing to accept"
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Perhaps I should reword what I am saying?

Example:

Tanev's salary is 4.5 million this season.
The model has his actual market value this season as 7.1 million based on the players total contributions to the team.

Does that work?
 
ToneDog said:
Yup Sakic should have let him walk for free when he could have gotten a cost controlled Necas for him.
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No he should have signed him
Is he worth 14 if course not but you have no choice if you want to contend. Necas might be cost controlled but he isn’t the player that rantenan is.
In this scenario the avs are not a cup contender just a playoff team.
 
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Fun Rantanen 5v5 numbers in the playoffs over the last 4 years:

Rantanen with MacKinnon:
Goals for: 31
Goals Against: 19

MacKinnon without Rantanen:
Goals for: 24
Goals Against: 13

Rantanen without MacKinnon:
Goals for: 13
Goals Against: 15
 
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I expected this conversation to be kicked off this morning. Glad it is. This is hopefully making the leafs management team take a moment to reflect where they are with Mitch.

Avs displaying some solid asset management here and not getting caught up emotionally. Avs have ust extended their window to win during the MacK era, thats first and foremost is the most important. This is what I want the leafs brass to be considering here.

If leafs can turn Mitch into a top 4 d-man, a 2c and some draft capital I think it would go a long way in extending this window for the organization.

Saying all that, if Mitch is willing to stay at a cap hit that works I'd rather keep him. But if it were me, I'd be approaching Marners side with a warning that they get an extension done before the deadline or they're shopping him.

It's time to be smart here with these assets.
 
ToneDog said:
This move has Sakic's fingers all over it. To me it is clear he makes the big decisions in Denver. He does not hide behind his GM.
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Not sure that Sakics role is any different from how Shanny,Neely and Rutherford ect.
The GM would clear every move with them.
Im sure like EF reported that the team set an internal deadline for an extension and if he wasnt signed they would look at moving on.
Im sure just like last year with Willy, if Tre had that same option with MM he would look at what was available and if something of value was an option he would take it to Shanny.
After this trade im sure teams will be calling Tre about a Mitch move but do the Leafs take it to Mitch and hurt his feelings is the question, could cost us 15mil just for having the conversation with him
 
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All this worshiping of the avs and their gm for this trade is odd. I bet if Sakic or McFarland was our GM, they still wouldn't trade Marner. Know why? MLSE. They're they curse, they're the ones wanting to run things safe. Doesn't really matter as long as we have this giant corporate hell umbrella that is rogers and MLSE. Also, it's Colorado, I bet leaf fans and the city of Toronto talking about this trade more than Colorado or Carolina lol.
It is what it is. Good and exciting trade to talk about.
 
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6by6h
Metroid said:
All this worshiping of the avs and their gm for this trade is odd. I bet if Sakic or McFarland was our GM, they still wouldn't trade Marner. Know why? MLSE. They're they curse, they're the ones wanting to run things safe. Doesn't really matter as long as we have this giant corporate hell umbrella that is rogers and MLSE. Also, it's Colorado, I bet leaf fans and the city of Toronto talking about this trade more than Colorado or Carolina lol.
It is what it is. Good and exciting trade to talk about.
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Well ted rogers gets control of the whole chebang soon
We ll see who he brings in
 
hullsy47 said:
6by6h
Well ted rogers gets control of the whole chebang soon
We ll see who he brings in
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He's got no balls.. his balls are owned by the degen shareholders.... Not saying the douche doesn't wanna win, but if he's ever gonna win it'll be by the safe and corporate method way.
 
ACC1224 said:
Seems all that matters is if you have ‘balls’ apparently. Brains and logic need not apply
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The Rantanen trade was logical from Colorado's perspective and it took balls (I'd argue any trade involving impact players does to a degree, more so when it's a contending team and mid-season as this one was).

Both can be true.
 
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Metroid said:
All this worshiping of the avs and their gm for this trade is odd. I bet if Sakic or McFarland was our GM, they still wouldn't trade Marner. Know why? MLSE. They're they curse, they're the ones wanting to run things safe. Doesn't really matter as long as we have this giant corporate hell umbrella that is rogers and MLSE. Also, it's Colorado, I bet leaf fans and the city of Toronto talking about this trade more than Colorado or Carolina lol.
It is what it is. Good and exciting trade to talk about.
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Really weird deflections here.

It's been a topic since the very start about the Leafs cap structure and if it's the right way to go. We learned another big lesson today that other, more successful organizations do not seem to desire this cap structure at all. You seem very upset that people wanna discuss this.
 
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IPS said:
And today we learned that Joe Sakic gives zero shits about cap percentage. Been quite a dagger in the chest of some of these wannabe capologists on here.
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Good for him but I'd wait to see how they do moving forward before thumping my chest that he didn't care. If they regress, I'm not sure I'd be proud of trading my top forward mid-season for a downgrade and a bag of whatever.
 
SprDaVE said:
Good for him but I'd wait to see how they do moving forward before thumping my chest that he didn't care. If they regress, I'm not sure I'd be proud of trading my top forward mid-season for a bag of whatever.
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It's a forward thinking move, not an immediate team improving move. Not sure why some don't get this.

They didn't want any part of Rantanen on a blatant overpayment because they're an organization that actually knows the value of cap space.
 
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SprDaVE said:
I dunno what this means. Are we talking about contracts or playoff success. Cap percentage and inflation are reasons why a lot of players sign more than then counterparts that signed their own deals in previous years.
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Bottom Line:
-> You can't be paying more than other teams for your own elite talent;
-> have absolutely ridiculous cap allocation (11AAV+ 4 forwards this year)
-> and expect to have success


Want to win the cup or just keep paying ridiculous aav to leafs players? pick one you can't have both!


If the goal is to win the CUP then current cap allocation and structure is a ridiculous. Plenty of historical evidence *7 years worth (post JT signing)
 
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IPS said:
It's a forward thinking move, not an immediate team improving move. Not sure why some don't get this.

They didn't want any part of Rantanen on a blatant overpayment because they're an organization that actually knows the value of cap space.
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I mean yeah it is... but forward thinking could also mean bad... you know this right? Why do we assume this turns into something good for their franchise? You know how hard it is to find top line elite level quality players? What happens when Makar wants 13-15M in 2 years?

They didn't want to "overpay" for a quality forward, yeah I get it. It'll be interesting how they redistribute that cap space moving forward and how good it pay offs long-term. I don't have a crystal ball.
 
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