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Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XCV: Second Round

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Who will be the 2023 Cup Champ?

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deadhead said:
No. I merely pointed out that Zito made even worse "win now" moves, probably under pressure from ownership. The trades for Chariot and Giroux turned out to be a disaster, cost them (2) 1st, 3rd, 4th and a 23 year forward who scored 27 goals. All to get swept by TB.

I wonder if that led to changes in ownership attitude - maybe we should be more patient. Because the Tkachuk trade was the polar opposite, trading players who could help you win now for a better player who can help you more in the future.

Which is why I rail against the "win now" attitude, most teams who try to force the issue end up taking steps backward.
Click to expand...
In what world is spending all those picks and losing to Tampa in the second round worse than spending a 1st, three 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and whatever other assets to miss the playoffs both years, and also destroy your cap moving forward? Not to mention finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge those after those "compete" moves.

Absolutely insane take.
 
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freakydallas13 said:
In what world is spending all those picks and losing to Tampa in the second round worse than spending a 1st, three 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and whatever you other assets to miss the playoffs both years, and also destroy your cap moving forward? Not to mention finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge those after those "compete" moves.

Absolutely insane take.
Click to expand...

The one where Chuck Fletcher is your idol. They both use statistics about as well as each other.
 
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freakydallas13 said:
In what world is spending all those picks and losing to Tampa in the second round worse than spending a 1st, three 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and whatever other assets to miss the playoffs both years, and also destroy your cap moving forward? Not to mention finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge those after those "compete" moves.

Absolutely insane take.
Click to expand...
Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.
 
deadhead said:
Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.
Click to expand...
EVEN IF YOU THINK IT DIDN'T RUIN THE CAP (it did, but for the sake of argument, let's say it didn't), I want you to to look me in the face and tell me, tell me that you think the Panthers giving up their picks and getting knocked out in the second round is worse than then Flyers giving up their picks and finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge.

Straight up, is that what you think? No explanations, no 17 paragraph diatribes, a single word reply: yes or no?
 
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Gudas' beard looks crazy close up.
deadhead said:
No. I merely pointed out that Zito made even worse "win now" moves, probably under pressure from ownership. The trades for Chariot and Giroux turned out to be a disaster, cost them (2) 1st, 3rd, 4th and a 23 year forward who scored 27 goals. All to get swept by TB.

I wonder if that led to changes in ownership attitude - maybe we should be more patient. Because the Tkachuk trade was the polar opposite, trading players who could help you win now for a better player who can help you more in the future.

Which is why I rail against the "win now" attitude, most teams who try to force the issue end up taking steps backward.
Click to expand...
Trading 1sts for rentals when you have genuine chance to win a Cup is not a disaster. It’s the cost of being a contender.

Same thing happened to Boston with Bertuzzi this year, and will happen with about 10 teams every season.
 
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deadhead said:
Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.
Click to expand...

Risto will not be moveable in a year.
 
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Looks like Hakstol has the last laugh after all. First Berube, now Hakstol. Is there an underperforming team looking for a coach right now? Vigneault is available.
 
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After Edmonton, Hakstol has a league best shooting %. That’s who he has. Seattle is a very deep roster to boot, with almost no fat, certainly the fat Hakstol is guilty of gorging himself upon.

It’s maddening, truly. We watched parts of 4 years of mediocre coaching and stubbornness in systems and usage. Some people just need their contrarian fix or they spontaneously combust. A Jack Adams is practically a pink slip guarantee anyway because it’s based on abnormal %s.
 
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TCTC said:
Haven't heard from Vigneault in a while. You don't even see him rumored anywhere. His last year with the Flyers has destroyed his reputation.
Click to expand...

He's not a good coach at all, but based on the last decade of trends I strongly suspect he was severely harmed trying to meet management directives to be a defensive coach, which he's never been capable of remotely.
 
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deadhead said:
Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.
Click to expand...
No matter how many times you say it can be done, Risto cannot and will not be moved next year.
 
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