Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XCV: Second Round

[Beef Invictus]

Lets see how long it will take for a guy who only made one mistake to get another job.

I think he's down to zero mistakes now, I hear the Risto move is a success now.

 

[freakydallas13]

No. I merely pointed out that Zito made even worse "win now" moves, probably under pressure from ownership. The trades for Chariot and Giroux turned out to be a disaster, cost them (2) 1st, 3rd, 4th and a 23 year forward who scored 27 goals. All to get swept by TB.

I wonder if that led to changes in ownership attitude - maybe we should be more patient. Because the Tkachuk trade was the polar opposite, trading players who could help you win now for a better player who can help you more in the future.

Which is why I rail against the "win now" attitude, most teams who try to force the issue end up taking steps backward.

In what world is spending all those picks and losing to Tampa in the second round worse than spending a 1st, three 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and whatever other assets to miss the playoffs both years, and also destroy your cap moving forward? Not to mention finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge those after those "compete" moves.

Absolutely insane take.

 

[Starat327]

In what world is spending all those picks and losing to Tampa in the second round worse than spending a 1st, three 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and whatever you other assets to miss the playoffs both years, and also destroy your cap moving forward? Not to mention finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge those after those "compete" moves.

Absolutely insane take.

The one where Chuck Fletcher is your idol. They both use statistics about as well as each other.

 

[deadhead]

In what world is spending all those picks and losing to Tampa in the second round worse than spending a 1st, three 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and whatever other assets to miss the playoffs both years, and also destroy your cap moving forward? Not to mention finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge those after those "compete" moves.

Absolutely insane take.

Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.

 

[freakydallas13]

Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.

EVEN IF YOU THINK IT DIDN'T RUIN THE CAP (it did, but for the sake of argument, let's say it didn't), I want you to to look me in the face and tell me, tell me that you think the Panthers giving up their picks and getting knocked out in the second round is worse than then Flyers giving up their picks and finishing as the 5th and 7th worst teams in the leauge.

Straight up, is that what you think? No explanations, no 17 paragraph diatribes, a single word reply: yes or no?

 

[Curufinwe]

Gudas' beard looks crazy close up.

No. I merely pointed out that Zito made even worse "win now" moves, probably under pressure from ownership. The trades for Chariot and Giroux turned out to be a disaster, cost them (2) 1st, 3rd, 4th and a 23 year forward who scored 27 goals. All to get swept by TB.

I wonder if that led to changes in ownership attitude - maybe we should be more patient. Because the Tkachuk trade was the polar opposite, trading players who could help you win now for a better player who can help you more in the future.

Which is why I rail against the "win now" attitude, most teams who try to force the issue end up taking steps backward.

Trading 1sts for rentals when you have genuine chance to win a Cup is not a disaster. It’s the cost of being a contender.

Same thing happened to Boston with Bertuzzi this year, and will happen with about 10 teams every season.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.

Risto will not be moveable in a year.

 

[RANKKA]

hak is winning it isint he

 

[Deadpool8812]

Hak is definitely winning it

 

[TCTC]

Looks like Hakstol has the last laugh after all. First Berube, now Hakstol. Is there an underperforming team looking for a coach right now? Vigneault is available.

 

[Magua]

Sure.

 

[FLYguy3911]

LMAO.

Is Hextall good now?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Byslma won an Adams.

 

[TCTC]

Byslma won an Adams.

He had Crosby pacing for 130 points that year. Who does Hakstol have?

 

[Magua]

After Edmonton, Hakstol has a league best shooting %. That’s who he has. Seattle is a very deep roster to boot, with almost no fat, certainly the fat Hakstol is guilty of gorging himself upon.

It’s maddening, truly. We watched parts of 4 years of mediocre coaching and stubbornness in systems and usage. Some people just need their contrarian fix or they spontaneously combust. A Jack Adams is practically a pink slip guarantee anyway because it’s based on abnormal %s.

 

[renberg]

Looks like Hakstol has the last laugh after all. First Berube, now Hakstol. Is there an underperforming team looking for a coach right now? Vigneault is available.

There are limits.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Kotkaniemi makes it 1-0 Canes

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Kotkaniemi again

2-0 Canes

 

[TCTC]

There are limits.

Haven't heard from Vigneault in a while. You don't even see him rumored anywhere. His last year with the Flyers has destroyed his reputation.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Haven't heard from Vigneault in a while. You don't even see him rumored anywhere. His last year with the Flyers has destroyed his reputation.

He's not a good coach at all, but based on the last decade of trends I strongly suspect he was severely harmed trying to meet management directives to be a defensive coach, which he's never been capable of remotely.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Did people just forget Hakstol coached Seattle to the 3rd worst record just last season with largely the same roster?

 

[Magua]

It’s funny how the arc of the Canes’ questionable moves eventually bends back in their favor too. Kotkaniemi, Skjei. Man, I wish we had their talent evaluation ability. Something something Eddie Olczyk.

 

[FLYguy3911]

It’s funny how the arc of the Canes’ questionable moves eventually bends back in their favor too. Kotkaniemi, Skjei.

What would Eddie Olczyk do?

 

[Beef Invictus]

What would Eddie Olczyk do?

He'd smoke opium at a seedy racetrack

 

[Cody Webster]

Our cap wasn't destroyed, Risto is $5M and can be moved in a year, TDA at $5M has one year left.
Those moves didn't make the Flyers bad, they were already bad. They just didn't make them better.
But in both cases, I suspect "win now" pressure led to bad moves.
Which you see all over the league, just look at most TDL trades.

No matter how many times you say it can be done, Risto cannot and will not be moved next year.