Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XCIX: We're Gonna Party Like It's 99

[SolidSnakeUS]

To rebuild, especially if that's the wording used by the organization, you start with draft picks and playing kids. Giving 1M+ contracts to vets for a team that will go nowhere is a recipe for disaster and the rebuild will fail. Hell, it's not even a reload, it's satiating the desire of a f***ing dinosaur who punishes fun hockey.

 

[Rebels57]

To rebuild, especially if that's the wording used by the organization, you start with draft picks and playing kids. Giving 1M+ contracts to vets for a team that will go nowhere is a recipe for disaster and the rebuild will fail. Hell, it's not even a reload, it's satiating the desire of a f***ing dinosaur who punishes fun hockey.

You can't have a proper rebuild with a coach like Torts. Especially when the owner has annointed him the "spiritual leader" and the GM and President have made him equal power when it comes to the roster.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

You can't have a proper rebuild with a coach like Torts. Especially when the owner has annointed him the "spiritual leader" and the GM and President have made him equal power when it comes to the roster.

#darkestttimeline

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Huh. So that’s allowed? You can just decide to do that?

Obviously, he must have beat out the srcub vets in train....NVM. Carry on.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Torts is smart. 1 year ago:

"Tony DeAngelo's a hell of a player, Tony DeAngelo has personality. Is he going to say and do some stupid stuff? You're damn right he is. But I'd rather have a guy doing stupid stuff than having a choir boy here just going about your business. You don't win that way, you don't win championships, you don't build a team without any personality. Tony's going to bring that and, plus, he's a hell of a player."


It's as if he thinks we forget these things.

That quote is bursting at the seams with irony. Remember Jake? Personality for days, and put it out there. The guy is so full of shit, it’s amazing he can be so full of himself at the same time.

 

[deadhead]

Huh. So that’s allowed? You can just decide to do that?

Given he's a #7 pick, who spent a full season in the AHL at 19-20 and played 19 games for NJ last season, this isn't exactly very radical. You'd hope he could win a starting job at 21.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Given he's a #7 pick, who spent a full season in the AHL at 19-20 and played 19 games for NJ last season, this isn't exactly very radical. You'd hope he could win a starting job at 21.

Tyson Foerster isn’t even a roster lock on a significantly less talented roster by your own words.

Maybe the bar for NHL competence isn’t as high as radical.

 

[renberg]

From Danny Briere in today's Inky: "“We put a lot of stress on guys like Noah Cates and Morgan Frost last year because of [injuries] and I’m sure it was great for their development to have to face top-six players or centers all year long."
If it is good for developing young guys to have them paying in the NHL, then why are they getting buried in the AHL? Some of these young guys who have possible NHL potential- Attard, Zamula, Andrae, Foerster, Desnoyers- are going to get more out of being in Philly than in LHV.
This "marinating" stuff gets over done. Soon some prospects get marinated out of their good growth years. Torts worked well with young players like Werenski and others in CBJ. He needs to repeat that here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I remember when there was talk of who’s rebuild was going to be more successful.

Kind of like how the Hawks are doing it the wrong way, and are far behind the Flyers.

Teams that haven't even started rebuilding yet are going to beat the Flyers "rebuild."

 

[Cody Webster]

What is Anaheim trying to accomplish? Between drafting Carlsson over Fantilli and now this, just move the team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

What is Anaheim trying to accomplish? Between drafting Carlsson over Fantilli and now this, just move the team.

Verbeek isn’t a good GM.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What would that deal even look like?

The negotiation around the centerpiece guy would be fascinating. You have 3 or 4 options and I can see arguments for Buffalo being willing or unwilling to trade any of them.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

If they are doing a bridge deal, just make it 7M, the same as Terry. When it's over, Zegras will be getting 9M+.

 

[Cody Webster]

If they are doing a bridge deal, just make it 7M, the same as Terry. When it's over, Zegras will be getting 9M+.

Is 7M enough, even in a bridge deal, for Zegras?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Is 7M enough, even in a bridge deal, for Zegras?

Both him and Terry put up 60+ points in the last couple seasons. Terry is currently 7 years, but you could do Zegras at 3 years and then he goes up way more. By the time Zegras gets to be 25 years old, he'll be making way more than Terry is getting at 26.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Success of "Air Force One" helped Avalanche match Rangers' offer sheet to Joe Sakic in 1997.



@Hollywood Cannon

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Success of "Air Force One" helped Avalanche match Rangers' offer sheet to Joe Sakic in 1997.



@Hollywood Cannon

You know, maybe it's just the Avs that are lucky and it's not Joe Sakic.

This is one of the greatest things that i've ever read. Air Force One is one of the movies that if I see it on the listings that i'll just have to turn it on and watch it til then end so just adds to it.

"Get off my plane."

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Everyone stop fighting. We have major breaking news.

Thanks LA. Saved the Flyers from themselves

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Obviously, he must have beat out the srcub vets in train....NVM. Carry on.

He must have been punching faces in practice, especially the coaching staff. That’s how guys get promoted in the lineup right?

 

[deadhead]

Tyson Foerster isn’t even a roster lock on a significantly less talented roster by your own words.

Maybe the bar for NHL competence isn’t as high as radical.

Foerster is competing with:
TK (26)
Tiippett (24) 27 goals
Atkinson, 50 goals in last 173 games before he was injured last year
Allison (26)

So to win a job he has to force one RW to move to LW and beat out Allison.
IF he's as good as I think he is, he'll do this. If he can't, you'd rather have him in LHV on the first line than on the 4th line in Philly. You want him to polish his offensive skill package.

One reason I don't think Lycksell will make the team is he'll have to beat out Farabee, Tippett/Atkinson and Laughton at LW. Good luck.

Desnoyers is different, if he shows well, he's a good 4th line fit given his style of play, and can rotate with Deslauriers and Poehling and play on the PK. He's competing with Laczynski.

they'll be watching the players in LHV, and if someone shows they're heads and shoulders above their peers (Brink?), Briere will probably make room for them by trading a veteran. Injuries means there's usually a market as you go into the season. Given their draft ammunition in the 2024 draft, Briere may be happy to get 2025 and 2026 picks in trades (which opens up more trade opportunities).

Gauthier won't arrrive until 2024-25, Bonk 2025-26, and Michkov 2026-27, so no reason not to be patient the next few years and continue to fill the prospect pipeline.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Foerster is competing with:
TK (26)
Tiippett (24) 27 goals
Atkinson, 50 goals in last 173 games before he was injured last year
Allison (26)

So to win a job he has to force one RW to move to LW and beat out Allison.
IF he's as good as I think he is, he'll do this. If he can't, you'd rather have him in LHV on the first line than on the 4th line in Philly. You want him to polish his offensive skill package.

One reason I don't think Lycksell will make the team is he'll have to beat out Farabee, Tippett/Atkinson and Laughton at LW. Good luck.

Desnoyers is different, if he shows well, he's a good 4th line fit given his style of play, and can rotate with Deslauriers and Poehling and play on the PK. He's competing with Laczynski.

they'll be watching the players in LHV, and if someone shows they're heads and shoulders above their peers (Brink?), Briere will probably make room for them by trading a veteran. Injuries means there's usually a market as you go into the season. Given their draft ammunition in the 2024 draft, Briere may be happy to get 2025 and 2026 picks in trades (which opens up more trade opportunities).

Gauthier won't arrrive until 2024-25, Bonk 2025-26, and Michkov 2026-27, so no reason not to be patient the next few years and continue to fill the prospect pipeline.

Truly there are no other options on a team that hasn't had a problem swapping forwards out of position. Truly, all of them are limited to exactly that position because it will conveniently justify whatever wrong decision the team makes.

Oh, and Allison isn't making the team either. Those spots were given away already. Why find any young upside, ever, when you can annually watch veterans on the downside decay even faster here?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Foerster is competing with:
TK (26)
Tiippett (24) 27 goals
Atkinson, 50 goals in last 173 games before he was injured last year
Allison (26)

So to win a job he has to force one RW to move to LW and beat out Allison.
IF he's as good as I think he is, he'll do this. If he can't, you'd rather have him in LHV on the first line than on the 4th line in Philly. You want him to polish his offensive skill package.

One reason I don't think Lycksell will make the team is he'll have to beat out Farabee, Tippett/Atkinson and Laughton at LW. Good luck.

Desnoyers is different, if he shows well, he's a good 4th line fit given his style of play, and can rotate with Deslauriers and Poehling and play on the PK. He's competing with Laczynski.

they'll be watching the players in LHV, and if someone shows they're heads and shoulders above their peers (Brink?), Briere will probably make room for them by trading a veteran. Injuries means there's usually a market as you go into the season. Given their draft ammunition in the 2024 draft, Briere may be happy to get 2025 and 2026 picks in trades (which opens up more trade opportunities).

Gauthier won't arrrive until 2024-25, Bonk 2025-26, and Michkov 2026-27, so no reason not to be patient the next few years and continue to fill the prospect pipeline.

Frost (46 Points)

Give me one good reason why Cam Atkinson’s existence should impact Tyson Foerster in any way. You’re not going to build Atkinson into a high value asset. Or why a training camp should be the sample to trump actual NHL games in determining Foerster’s readiness.

 

[deadhead]

Frost (46 Points)

Give me one good reason why Cam Atkinson’s existence should impact Tyson Foerster in any way. You’re not going to build Atkinson into a high value asset. Or why a training camp should be the sample to trump actual NHL games in determining Foerster’s readiness.

You can't move Atkinson unless he plays and shows he's still a 20+ goal scorer. if he's still that player, there are teams that would definitely be interested in him for a PO run, though you'd have to retain or take a contract back b/c of the second season.

What you're looking for in TC is how the player looks (not if he scores a couple goals in exhibition games), you see him in practice, in numerous scrimmages, and probably 4-5 exhibition games. That is plenty of time to gauge the progress he made over the summer in terms of strength, conditioning and skating, and whether he's become more comfortable with NHL speed. I suspect scrimmages (when against the first or second team group, the third team group is more about evaluating the AHL players) are weighted as much or more than the early exhibition games (full of AHL players).

We've seen guys flash in short cameos, riding an adrenalin rush and/or puck luck, fall flat on their face the next season. I remember Weal having a stretch where he looked like a legitimate NHL player.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You can't move Atkinson unless he plays and shows he's still a 20+ goal scorer. if he's still that player, there are teams that would definitely be interested in him for a PO run, though you'd have to retain or take a contract back b/c of the second season.

What you're looking for in TC is how the player looks (not if he scores a couple goals in exhibition games), you see him in practice, in numerous scrimmages, and probably 4-5 exhibition games. That is plenty of time to gauge the progress he made over the summer in terms of strength, conditioning and skating, and whether he's become more comfortable with NHL speed. I suspect scrimmages (when against the first or second team group, the third team group is more about evaluating the AHL players) are weighted as much or more than the early exhibition games (full of AHL players).

We've seen guys flash in short cameos, riding an adrenalin rush and/or puck luck, fall flat on their face the next season. I remember Weal having a stretch where he looked like a legitimate NHL player.

So now Foerster can be sent down because Cam Atkinson may be able to return a 3 and a bad contract if everything goes well and because Jordan Weal didn’t carry over his success.

I get that you’re trying to think this through and see it from their point of view. But read my first paragraph again without the window dressing and tell me you really think this is sound process.

If Foerster needs to be pushed, push him. That’s the coaching staff’s job. But make the default status shooting for upside and then adjust if you don’t think he’s listening after 2 weeks.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Funny how we are concerned about getting that max return for Cam Atkinson, but find it completely irrelevant to improve the Flyers draft position this/last season - by keeping names such as Provorov, Laughton, Sanheim, and TK on the roster.