Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVII: What An Ugly Number

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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Armored Train
If ever there was a time when the NHL was watered down relative to available quality talent it was in the 70s and 80s. Not the 90s and beyond.

Edit: and I happen to love the 80s as it marks the beginning of a global talent injection that would explode the next decade. It was a transition period, a sort of frontier time. While also being the first decade to start harvesting the results of a far more robust development program. But, it was just starting then.

Edit 2: the 70s saw the expansion from 6 to 18 teams by 74, without an increase in talent base. And on top of that the NHL was competing for talent with the WHA.
 
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DancingPanther

Foundational Titan
Jun 19, 2018
33,864
72,108
The talent today is not watered down. Just look at recent expansion teams compared to previous ones. It's more international, better players are given chances they didn't get in previous eras, drafting and development has improved across the board. Teams discover 60 point players under minor league rocks, and the talent is watered down? Hockey is just starting to emerge from the primordial soup of not playing single celled organisms (well, mostly).
Prokaryotes, even

Giroux beats every BSB in arm-wrestling.

Lonsberry loses to Sanheim.
The lonsberries taste like lonbserries!
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,276
156,936
Pennsylvania
The lonsberries taste like lonbserries!
ee8e784972759947df456ae1173caf97.png
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
83,359
143,384
Philadelphia, PA
The total amount of Canadian players in the league now a days is under 50%. Like stated before, in the 70’s it was like 90% or more were Canadians. Canada is still the top producer of talent amongst all the countries but the game outside of that grown so much. USA is a hockey power now producing the second most players in the NHL. Then you have even beyond the overseas powers in Sweden, Russia, Finland, & Czechia you have countries like Germany, Switzerland, Denmark, Belarus, Latvia, etc. producing some NHL caliber players.

The overall talent pool has absolutely substantially grown over decades. The league isn’t just self-reliant on Canada anymore.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,351
170,886
Armored Train
The total amount of Canadian players in the league now a days is under 50%. Like stated before, in the 70’s it was like 90% or more were Canadians. Canada is still the top producer of talent amongst all the countries but the game outside of that grown so much. USA is a hockey power now producing the second most players in the NHL. Then you have even beyond the overseas powers in Sweden, Russia, Finland, & Czechia you have countries like Germany, Switzerland, Denmark, Belarus, Latvia, etc. producing some NHL caliber players.

The overall talent pool has absolutely substantially grown over decades. The league isn’t just self-reliant on Canada anymore.

Canada still has the best overall development program so they leverage the most talent out of their available pool, but the US has been creeping up.
 

Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
38,648
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Huron of the Lakes
This is the worst thread of all time and I wish I hadn't opened it.

As forum history has shown us, there are no bad threads. Only bad memeing.

 

Cody Webster

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
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You guys should watch this tennis match rather than bitch back and forth over such stupid shit
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,351
170,886
Armored Train
You guys should watch this tennis match rather than bitch back and forth over such stupid shit

The Sports Hierarchy:

Hockey
Football
College football
Darts
Boxing
MMA
Baseball
Bowling
Jai Alai
Curling
Badminton
Basketball
Mesoamerican Ball Game
Cricket
Golf
Racing
Track and Field
Racquetball
Water polo
Croquet
Horseshoes
Bocci
Ping pong
Bitching about stupid shit
Wrestling
Tennis
Horse polo
Dressage
Cornhole
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
50,931
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Right. So compare the number of players in the league when there were six teams-in 1966 there were 165 players or so. Two years later after expansion to twelve, there were double that. Now there are over a thousand in the league. There is no way that the talent level has not been watered down.
I would disagree that the quality of play in the sixties and early years of expansion is less than today. Quite the opposite. Night after night the players were up against tough opposition. There were no nights off for softies.
This is one of the problems that the Flyers, and other teams, are currently having right now. Fans from the past know what good hockey's and good players are. They watch the game and see what is missing. Sure there are some fantastic players in the league but they are few and far between. As a result the fans pay to go to an entertainment event to see Gritty, lighting events, smoke, music and crap like that. The game itself is secondary for too many. This is the NHL that Bettman wanted and the owners allowed him to create. More of a happening and less of a hard nosed competitive sport than it used to be.
That's not true. The skill level is much greater, in the last ten years scrubs who had to get by with clutching, grabbing and hooking have been eliminated. The biggest problem has been goalie uniforms, which really reduced scoring by allowing more athletic goalies an even bigger edge. Nor is hitting down that much, still plenty of high speed checks, they've mostly cut out the egregious dirty plays - with what we know about concussions, no decent person can applaud an elbow to the head anymore or boarding someone head first.

However, the stupidity of scheduling has watered down division rivalries, and too much travel to play teams where there is no emotional involvement means too many teams coming out flat. When you play a team in your division numerous times, after a while the accumulation of bad feelings means both teams raise the intensity, even when one is clearly out of the playoffs, and that makes for better hockey. Combine that with wildcards and the urgency of beating divisional rivals has greatly diminished. And those were the best regular season games, not some West Coast team you hardly knew.
 

BlackandOrange

Registered User
Jul 12, 2018
255
362
Breadalbane, PE
How about the double edged sword that was removing the two line pass rule? Sure it increased offense some, but the decline in physical play afterwards is still present.

I don't want the mega trapping days of the Devils, but I would like to see a return to a more physical game. Oh and obviously no U.S.S. Hal Gill clutch and grab hockey.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
79,231
87,012
Nova Scotia
The skill level in today's NHL is so great, you gotta lock up guys like Deslauriers fir 4 years when you have the chance.

The Sports Hierarchy:

Hockey
Football
College football
Darts
Boxing
MMA
Baseball
Bowling
Jai Alai
Curling
Badminton
Basketball
Mesoamerican Ball Game
Cricket
Golf
Racing
Track and Field
Racquetball
Water polo
Croquet
Horseshoes
Bocci
Ping pong
Bitching about stupid shit
Wrestling
Tennis
Horse polo
Dressage
Cornhole
Where is marble racing?
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,351
170,886
Armored Train
How about the double edged sword that was removing the two line pass rule? Sure it increased offense some, but the decline in physical play afterwards is still present.

I don't want the mega trapping days of the Devils, but I would like to see a return to a more physical game. Oh and obviously no U.S.S. Hal Gill clutch and grab hockey.

With all the data available on brain damage, the NHL may not want to delve into potential liability on that front. I don't think they go back to two-line passing unless offense really gets out of hand.

The league has been trying to balance offense and defense for a century now. I'm too tired to check the specifics so this is a mega-sloppy outline rather than a real history; and I don't fully remember when each line was introduced, or what it was for in relation to passing. Fun fact, there was a time when defending teams couldn't play the puck off a rebound from their goalie because it was considered a forward pass; then eventually they were allowed to play it within a few feet of the goal because otherwise that was a huge offensive advantage, and there was a line on the ice marking that. Hockey loves lines as solutions!

So from what I can recall, hockey initially had 7 men on the ice including goalies. As skates and skating technique improved, the presence of the rover clogged the ice too much and games were a slog. So, the rover position was done away with (Imagine the battle with the NHLPA over something like that today). But skates and skating kept getting better and eventually with no forward passing, defense was too favored again. So forward passing was allowed, but (I think) only in particular situations that I can't recall; not on offense. This helped for a little, but then teams adapted and scoring plummeted. So, they allowed forward passing in all situations. This led to a massive offensive explosion; so massive, that I think they added the blue lines (with no red line) in the middle of the season? You weren't allowed to pass across the blue lines. You could pass on either side of them or between them, but otherwise I think the puck had to be carried across; they were speedbumps. This slashed offense. And again, eventually defense took hold. So then the red line was created. It's weird to think about, but the red line actually increased offense. Players could now pass across their own blue line up to the red line, but the puck had to be carried in across the opposing blue line. So offense opened again. Eventually teams started slowing things down, and teams started icing the puck to delay with the lead which was dreadful to watch...so we get icing, again, to increase action. At some point you could start passing past the red line too, so long as you didn't ice it; I assume this is when offside comes into play as we know it.. That led to cherrypicking and an offensive boost. So then we got the two-line pass to balance it out. That was fine until the trap. So it got removed and rules were more enforced, and here we are today. I look forward to seeing if teams start pushing so hard against defenses that they seek to take it back a notch. Would the return of two line passing be the solution, or would they think of something else?

I figure at least someone would like to read that. I bet some of it is accurate and in order, too.
 
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