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Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXIX: More impactful than an REM pop song

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flyerslducks

flyerslducks

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Feb 15, 2017
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Audible Velvet said:
We used to see him make great reads in the neutral zone all the time. Plays that canceled so many rushes and zone entries, but narratives can be strong. Guess he should have spent more time in our zone grinding in the corners (instead of making the nice play to break out) and scrumming it up in front of the net.
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I miss those crazy ozone keep ins. He was a master at those, especially on the pp
 
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DancingPanther

DancingPanther

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Striiker

Striiker

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Jun 2, 2013
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DancingPanther said:
Resurrected? More like he liberated his career from the hellscape in Philadelphia
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Yep, it was never dead. Only hidden.

People forget he had a great last year here, in spite of the teams best efforts. Paced for over 40 points on an offensively inept team, with horrible usage and partners, and had great play driving stats too.
 
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ajgoal

ajgoal

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Striiker said:
Yep, it was never dead. Only hidden.

People forget he had a great last year here, in spite of the teams best efforts. Paced for over 40 points on an offensively inept team, with horrible usage and partners, and had great play driving stats too.
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"People"
 
Magua

Magua

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JojoTheWhale said:
www.nhl.com

Gostisbehere resurrected career with Coyotes, opening eyes around NHL | NHL.com

Defenseman would net significant return for Arizona if it pursued a trade
www.nhl.com www.nhl.com

@Striiker :)
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There's so many fantastic quotes in there, but in a general sense, I just want to *finger point vigorously* at the optics. It's a fluff piece, not there's anything wrong with that, with a purpose. It talks him up as a person, as a player, as a defenserer, as a teammate, and as a valued asset. We're a little (lot) wiser than most people reading that or league execs evaluating him. We know that he hasn't undergone a resurrection; he just got to leave a team that sewered his confidence, or didn't encourage him properly even when he had it.

But the optics are uncanny. I've never seen a team, in our beloved Flyers, with such mastery in convincing everyone that a useful player is not, in fact, useful -- and to their own detriment. It's not this hard to manipulate public opinion (see: Ristolainen, Rasmus). And I'm not even getting into the bad starting point internal evaluating.
 
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deadhead

deadhead

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Ghost is the same player in Arizona that he was here, and the league knew what he was.
A 3rd pair D-man, PP specialist.
He pads his scoring stats due to usage and an aggressive style (similar to Chicago under Colliton), but the whole defense leaks HDCA.

No one wanted his 2yr/$9M with the cap flat under COVID and too many competing teams stuck with pre-COVID contracts.

Should we have just kept him (well, you had to fire AV), sure, but he wouldn't have made a rats ass of difference. He hasn't in Zona.
 
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Magua

Magua

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deadhead said:
Ghost is the same player in Arizona that he was here, and the league knew what he was.
A 3rd pair D-man, PP specialist.
He pads his scoring stats due to usage and an aggressive style (similar to Chicago under Colliton), but the whole defense leaks HDCA.

No one wanted his 2yr/$9M with the cap flat under COVID and too many competing teams stuck with pre-COVID contracts.

Should we have just kept him (well, you had to fire AV), sure, but he wouldn't have made a rats ass of difference. He hasn't in Zona.
Click to expand...

The Flyers have a 3rd pair D-man, PP specialist on their 1st pair right now and paid a high 2nd and 3rd for that. After trading the 36th overall pick to dump a "3rd pair D-man, PP specialist" in order to trade the 13th overall pick and another ~36th overall pick to acquire a "3rd pair D-man, no special teams specialist" and sign him for 5 years. Do you want me to get out the ledger or do you get the picture?

deadhead said:
Should we have just kept him (well, you had to fire AV), sure, but he wouldn't have made a rats ass of difference. He hasn't in Zona.
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Spot on, as usual. All this value dumping to end up where you started (worse) wouldn't have made a lick of a difference. Stop rooting this discussion in just on-ice play.

If Ghost gets flipped for any positive value, he will have made a difference in Arizona. He already netted a high 2nd, so actually, he's already made a difference. As for your notion that a #4 defender, or such, didn't turn around a rebuilding league bottom roster singlehandedly, well, you got us real good on that one! Weirdly enough, they seem to value him and, with equal parts honesty and salesmanship, convinced the league this same player here (as you said!) has value. A round of applause for the sagacious Chuck Fletcher.
 
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deadhead

deadhead

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Magua said:
The Flyers have a 3rd pair D-man, PP specialist on their 1st pair right now and paid a high 2nd and 3rd for that. After trading the 36th overall pick to dump a "3rd pair D-man, PP specialist" in order to trade the 13th overall pick and another ~36th overall pick to acquire a "3rd pair D-man, no special teams specialist" and sign him for 5 years. Do you want me to get out the ledger or do you get the picture?



Spot on, as usual. All this value dumping to end up where you started (worse) wouldn't have made a lick of a difference. Stop rooting this discussion in just on-ice play.

If Ghost gets flipped for any positive value, he will have made a difference in Arizona. He already netted a high 2nd, so actually, he's already made a difference. As for your notion that a #4 defender, or such, didn't turn around a rebuilding league bottom roster singlehandedly, well, you got us real good on that one!
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Confusing two different issues:

1) Flyers don't suck because they leak value, the only player of value gone is G, Ghost and Voracek, yawn, the rest, bleech, they sucked with G last year, they sucked less with all of them two years ago (and two years younger and a healthy Couts).
2) Since the Flyers sucked in any case, there was no reason to hemorrhage draft picks to try and suck less.
 
Angry Hockey Dad

Angry Hockey Dad

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pacehimself said:
Watching the reactions to the Devils fans throwing crap on the ice is ridiculous. If that occurred here people would be calling for the team to be disbanded. But you know…they have fans that are “passionate”…
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Almost like when Flyers fans littered the ice with Ed snider bracelets?
 
Rebels57

Rebels57

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Magua said:
The Flyers have a 3rd pair D-man, PP specialist on their 1st pair right now and paid a high 2nd and 3rd for that. After trading the 36th overall pick to dump a "3rd pair D-man, PP specialist" in order to trade the 13th overall pick and another ~36th overall pick to acquire a "3rd pair D-man, no special teams specialist" and sign him for 5 years. Do you want me to get out the ledger or do you get the picture?



Spot on, as usual. All this value dumping to end up where you started (worse) wouldn't have made a lick of a difference. Stop rooting this discussion in just on-ice play.

If Ghost gets flipped for any positive value, he will have made a difference in Arizona. He already netted a high 2nd, so actually, he's already made a difference. As for your notion that a #4 defender, or such, didn't turn around a rebuilding league bottom roster singlehandedly, well, you got us real good on that one! Weirdly enough, they seem to value him and, with equal parts honesty and salesmanship, convinced the league this same player here (as you said!) has value. A round of applause for the sagacious Chuck Fletcher.
Click to expand...

Ghost (to Arizona)
1st in 2021 (to Buffalo)
2nd in 2022 (to Arizona)
2nd in 2023 (to Buffalo)
2nd in 2024 (to Carolina)
3rd in 2023 (to Carolina)
4th in 2022 (to Carolina)
7th in 2022 (to Arizona)
Hagg (to Buffalo)

-For-

Risto
Racist
2022 7th (from Carolina)

Sometimes I just like to type it out for the fun of it. Comical.

Racist < Ghost
Risto < Hagg

They surrendered all of those assets to downgrade both defensemen. Then there are the extensions lol
 
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BringBackHakstol

BringBackHakstol

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Oct 25, 2005
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deadhead said:
Ghost is the same player in Arizona that he was here, and the league knew what he was.
A 3rd pair D-man, PP specialist.
He pads his scoring stats due to usage and an aggressive style (similar to Chicago under Colliton), but the whole defense leaks HDCA.

No one wanted his 2yr/$9M with the cap flat under COVID and too many competing teams stuck with pre-COVID contracts.

Should we have just kept him (well, you had to fire AV), sure, but he wouldn't have made a rats ass of difference. He hasn't in Zona.
Click to expand...

So Ghost gets knocked in your book by playing in a system that is aggressive and lets him pad his stats according to you.

In the same breath, the system leaks HDCA as a whole but he doesn't get that credit on the defensive\possession side?

Talking out of both sides of your mouth as usual
 
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