News Article: Mirtle: Maple Leafs Ownership Could Make Massive Changes if 'Really Disappointing First-Round Exit' Happens Again in the Playoffs

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,786
8,518
T.O.
If the worst should happen again in the first round, I think Keefe and Shanahan need to go.

Treliving deserves the opportunity to put his stamp on the roster before being fairly evaluated.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
75,837
41,863
Win-win situation. They either win and shut everybody up or they lose early and we get to turn the page on this failed era of Leafs hockey.

Although I really have no logical reason, I'm strangely optimistic about the Leafs this year. I think they're gonna make noise.


Please do tell how the Leafs were set back last off-season?
Why would you ask that? Everyone knows what the answer will be.
 

Obo

Registered User
Nov 20, 2019
537
525
Fan: So how do you feel about the Leafs?

Executive: It's amazing! Truly we are living in a golden age!

Fan: You mean like how we have Matthews, Marner, and Nylander?

Executive: What? No, I mean like how we're making boatloads of money with no end in sight.

Fan: But the salary cap...

Executive: Yeah, how great is that? It puts a hard limit on how much we have to give to the players and we get to keep the rest. Best. Idea. Ever.

Fan: ...
 

ITM

Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
Jan 26, 2012
4,734
2,678
I'm fine with Shanahan at the helm because I've seen so much worse with other teams even with the Leafs. He's at least been able to rebuild this mess years ago into something that is a lot more respectable, on and off the ice. People put far too much emphasis on blaming Shanahan for the lack of post-season success and not enough with what he was able to do when he took over. We'll see if his gamble with Treliving pays off, but I think keeping Keefe was a mistake when there should have been a bit of a reset both at the management and coaching level.

With that said, you gotta make changes when success hasn't been there in the post-season. Nature of the business. It is fairly unacceptable to not have been able to reach at least the ECF.
With you on all points, especially the bold. If only for the options out there that wouldn't flub any number of seemingly standard calls at vital points of the game in the way Keefe has...IF there's legs to this, I think Keefe is the most reasonable big (first?) change to be made.

Not an apologist or a "hater". Would love to be corrected on Keefe's game management; Are there examples when he outcoached another coach? Is there a string of similar instances in which we could say: THAT's classic Keefe! and it not be shuddering? He has his record. He also has arguably, our greatest forward corps talent in our history.

But this club has always needed stability. And lost on a lot of people is longevity and stability working hand in hand. Shanahan rarely gets the credit he deserves for weathering our media's bloodlust, driven? echoed? by our fanbase.

I applaud Shanahan for making bold moves. I wanted a few done faster and one remains, but firing Dubas was an unexpected, welcomed, course correction, and Treliving has hit some much-needed secondary chemistry bullseyes in Domi and Bertuzzi (and a couple of others).

But agreed, in all of this, records and reputation mean little if those same names aren't engraved on the Cup.
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
53,916
37,204
what are you going to do when everyone, including the 4th line center has a nmc...

Kampf doesn't have a NMC. It's a modified no trade clause with a 10 team no trade list, which is pretty standard across the league.
 

ErnieLeafs

Registered User
Apr 7, 2009
12,205
2,417
If they lose in the first round, Keefe and Shanny both have to go. I’m thankful for the work they’ve done, but at this point, it’ll be clear they’re not going to finish the job. New voices will be needed, and that’s fine. I’ll thank them for getting us 2/3’s of the way up the hill, and look forward to getting people in that can get us to the top.

With that said, I have no moral qualms about making Quennville the first call we make, in the event that Keefe is fired. I think he’s the perfect mix of a coach who commands respect, demands a lot from his players, while also maintaining good relationships in his room. For the President’s job, I don’t know enough about proper candidates to make a call. Ideally you would look at organizations like Tampa, Boston, and Vegas, and maybe try to poach someone high up in their ranks, as they will have been a part of sustained success, and a culture of winning hockey. We need that.

Other than that, we need to use this offseason to re-shape our back end, and get our ducks in a row for the following year, as well, for when Tavares comes off the books/takes a big discount, to potentially finish building a roster that can win a cup.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
80,835
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Mirtle is pretty well connected no? He had a fairly accurate read on Dubas and his contract being in hot water if I recall correctly

Honestly I'd have been less upset if we lost to Tampa in 7 last year than make it to the 2nd round and get dusted in 5.

Feels like Mirtle is taking a shot at Shanahan on behalf of Dubas on this one…

In the normal course of things Keefe would have been the blood sacrifice last summer. Dubas stays on based on his aggressive deadline makeover and things proceed according to script based on chain of command.

That was interrupted by Dubas trying to leverage Shanahan out of the presidents role only to get turfed. In the short term that completely changed the bottom up sequencing of who gets fired/which players get replaced.

Now I could see the Leafs losing. And I Shanahan being let go at some point. Not saying those things couldn’t happen. But I’m also skeptical that the new CEO is going to dial up the heat on himself months into a job and get rid of a board room guy for on ice issues with no guarantees he’s got access to the next hockey management superstar and the tools to change the on ice product in a dramatic way.

More realistically l see a conservative and incremental approach to change. Shanny stays on at least till the end of the contract. And the Leafs start rockin and rollin again when Tavares deal is up and big roster upgrades can be had.

I think Mirtle is just trying to take a shot at Shanahan here. Nothing to see.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,734
13,351
Leafs Home Board
Hopefully we have success, and it doesn't come to that... but then, I think most of us posters are in agreement, that if they fail again, sweeping changes are necessary.
As far as I'm concerned we're already a day late and dollar short when it comes to making significant changes in both management and player personnel. IMO

I'm just grateful that snake oil salesman Dubas is gone, but both Shanahan and Keefe should both also be gone by now based on the teams embarrassing playoff performances.

This is year 10 for Shanahan and his Shan-a-plan and it have 1 single playoff series win, followed by a near 2nd round sweep to its record.

Another 1st round flame-out this year has to be the end for Shanny.

PS. The only one who might save both Shanny and Keefe is GM Treliving, because despite being handcuffed with salary cap Hell of 1/2 the salary cap used on 4 forwards, he has managed to build a team this year full of bite and push-back ability that will not be able to be intimidated physically. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 balanced offensive lines has BT involvement, as Keefe/Dubas refused such a thought and put all their eggs in the same basket and made the Leafs easier to defend and eliminate.
 

Ports

Registered User
Dec 7, 2017
1,439
1,435
Comedy level lip service / disinformation

If you believed that for one second you’re a gullible fool.
Why would they be happy? Not having the Leafs go deep in the playoffs costs them millions in gate receipts and media sales. Aside from that, the Leafs have been seen as underachievers and are mocked throughout the league. 57 years without a cup is not a record any team owner wants.
 

ErnieLeafs

Registered User
Apr 7, 2009
12,205
2,417
Why would they be happy? Not having the Leafs go deep in the playoffs costs them millions in gate receipts and media sales. Aside from that, the Leafs have been seen as underachievers and are mocked throughout the league. 57 years without a cup is not a record any team owner wants.
Exactly.

The only thing motivating these people is money, and winning more means more money. They’re pissed because they’ve spent a lot of it, and haven’t hauled in the boatload they COULD have. The ROI hasn’t come yet
 

kevsh

Registered User
Nov 28, 2018
3,539
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It's a modified no trade clause with a 10 team no trade list, which is pretty standard across the league.

Not for 4th liners. Most teams have up to 5-6 forwards with some version of an NTC, and almost none have 4th liners with one. The Leafs are the exception, where Kampf likely got his because they've given just about everyone else one.

But I do concede it's slowly headed to a point where every player is going to get some version of an NTC ... With the Leafs apparently deciding to be the trailblazers (for something that no team should want to be trailblazing on; NMC/NTCs are the bane of GMs).
 
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Ports

Registered User
Dec 7, 2017
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Feels like Mirtle is taking a shot at Shanahan on behalf of Dubas on this one…

In the normal course of things Keefe would have been the blood sacrifice last summer. Dubas stays on based on his aggressive deadline makeover and things proceed according to script based on chain of command.

That was interrupted by Dubas trying to leverage Shanahan out of the presidents role only to get turfed. In the short term that completely changed the bottom up sequencing of who gets fired/which players get replaced.

Now I could see the Leafs losing. And I Shanahan being let go at some point. Not saying those things couldn’t happen. But I’m also skeptical that the new CEO is going to dial up the heat on himself months into a job and get rid of a board room guy for on ice issues with no guarantees he’s got access to the next hockey management superstar and the tools to change the on ice product in a dramatic way.

More realistically l see a conservative and incremental approach to change. Shanny stays on at least till the end of the contract. And the Leafs start rockin and rollin again when Tavares deal is up and big roster upgrades can be had.

I think Mirtle is just trying to take a shot at Shanahan here. Nothing to see.
Shanahan’s biggest supporter is Tanenbaum and he’s started his own sports ownership company and will be moving on from MLSE. Pellie was brought in to hire a new President should the Leafs fail to go on a deep run. Shanny’s had ten years to make them a cup contender and while doing other good things, he’s been considered a failure in that regard.
 
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ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
75,837
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Why would they be happy? Not having the Leafs go deep in the playoffs costs them millions in gate receipts and media sales. Aside from that, the Leafs have been seen as underachievers and are mocked throughout the league. 57 years without a cup is not a record any team owner wants.
It's never made any sense the belief that MLSE is content with how things are.
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
21,031
15,814
I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 balanced offensive lines has BT involvement, as Keefe/Dubas refused such a thought and put all their eggs in the same basket and made the Leafs easier to defend and eliminate.
We've spread out the offense across 3 lines before, long before Treliving, and funny enough, the biggest reason we've been able to do it for stretches this year is because of the prospects and internal depth Dubas provided. Well, that and Treliving abandoning defense.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
80,835
58,043
Shanahan’s biggest supporter is Tanenbaum and he’s started his own sports ownership company and will be moving on from MLSE. Pellie was brought in to hire a new President should the Leafs fail to go on a deep run. Shanny’s had ten years to make them a cup contender and while doing other good things, he’s been considered a failure in that regard.

I don’t think the Leafs issues are at the boardroom level, and as conservative as things have been run and as impatient as fans are for change and success, the status quo has also protected the Leafs window of contention as well. Hard to say if Shanny has been more this or that they’d either have a cup or be in the ditch.

I think Keefe will be gone if the playoffs run is disappointing but I don’t think that will be the case with Shanahan.
 

TMLBlueandWhite

Registered User
Feb 2, 2023
1,825
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I feel like a dummy watching this trainwreck all these years and calling it entertainment.

My only saving grace is I might not be as dumb as Shanahan or Tanenbaum. Then again maybe I am. I'm either dumb, dumber, or dumbest.

I'm sure somebody will let me know if I'm the first, second, or third dumbest person on the planet.

Last I heard ownership was still "fantastically supportive" of it all. Winning at the bank was all that mattered. So long as ML$E measured success in terms of franchise valuation Shanahan was assured a job for life.

He would have been kicked to the curb long ago under ownership demanding a real contender.

Responsibility for this mess goes to the man presiding over this pretender contender the last decade. And make no mistake about it this team is in a mess. Well if you're gonna keep someone that dumb around you're an even bigger dummy.

But the biggest dummy of all is probably me for giving them an audience this whole time.
 
Sep 18, 2009
9,493
4,798
I feel like a dummy watching this trainwreck all these years and calling it entertainment.

My only saving grace is I might not be as dumb as Shanahan or Tanenbaum. Then again maybe I am. I'm either dumb, dumber, or dumbest.

I'm sure somebody will let me know if I'm the first, second, or third dumbest person on the planet.

Last I heard ownership was still "fantastically supportive" of it all. Winning at the bank was all that mattered. So long as ML$E measured success in terms of franchise valuation Shanahan was assured a job for life.

He would have been kicked to the curb long ago under ownership demanding a real contender.

Responsibility for this mess goes to the man presiding over this pretender contender the last decade. And make no mistake about it this team is in a mess. Well if you're gonna keep someone that dumb around you're an even bigger dummy.

But the biggest dummy of all is probably me for giving them an audience this whole time.
They don't need to win
Everyone lining up to watch this team play
Money pouring in
ML$E
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
49,325
11,945
We've spread out the offense across 3 lines before, long before Treliving, and funny enough, the biggest reason we've been able to do it for stretches this year is because of the prospects and internal depth Dubas provided. Well, that and Treliving abandoning defense.
Started the first TB series that way. @Mess should know that
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
75,837
41,863
"They don't need to win, they make enough money" and "players with NMC will leave if they are asked" may be the two most ignorant things mentioned daily on this board.

Maybe people aren't serious about this and just looking for attention? I hope that's the case.
 

Buds17

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
8,543
3,569
Failure to win a round would be a step back and disappointing, yes. It's unfortunate that a step back has also likely taken place in the regular season with the team looking to start its playoff series on the road. Win a round or two (or more) there and all talk of massive change becomes moot.
 

hullsy47

Registered User
Dec 7, 2005
6,547
1,198
Feels like Mirtle is taking a shot at Shanahan on behalf of Dubas on this one…

In the normal course of things Keefe would have been the blood sacrifice last summer. Dubas stays on based on his aggressive deadline makeover and things proceed according to script based on chain of command.

That was interrupted by Dubas trying to leverage Shanahan out of the presidents role only to get turfed. In the short term that completely changed the bottom up sequencing of who gets fired/which players get replaced.

Now I could see the Leafs losing. And I Shanahan being let go at some point. Not saying those things couldn’t happen. But I’m also skeptical that the new CEO is going to dial up the heat on himself months into a job and get rid of a board room guy for on ice issues with no guarantees he’s got access to the next hockey management superstar and the tools to change the on ice product in a dramatic way.

More realistically l see a conservative and incremental approach to change. Shanny stays on at least till the end of the contract. And the Leafs start rockin and rollin again when Tavares deal is up and big roster upgrades can be had.

I think Mirtle is just trying to take a shot at Shanahan here. Nothing to see.
This guy is a sports guy .I mean he might turn out to be a puppet ,but it's gonna be hard to sell him the same menu of bullsjit that shanahan could sell
Maybe this core will win .but I mean somebody goes if the Leafs don't win a round
I predicted 3,Shanahan Keefe plus marner or tavaras bought out
 

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