News Article: Mirtle: Maple Leafs Ownership Could Make Massive Changes if 'Really Disappointing First-Round Exit' Happens Again in the Playoffs

[Racer88]

Nothing…….nothing fix’s the problem of spending to much of the cap on 4 core forwards that can’t get it done in the playoffs. No amount of excuses changes that. 1 round win in 8 years and some here still can’t fathom the team without any one of these guys and want to give them even more money……my god how did we get here. 2 words, Shanny, Dubas.
They will go down in history as the two that bungled what could have been one of the best rebuilds in most of our lives……sImply pathetic

 

[Gary Nylund]

thankfully I don't have twenty years left to watch this gong show.............

Yeah, I might not either.

Hyman was a worse playoff performer here... so now we are removing our best point-producing player and adding a horrendous one.

Hyman's been pretty great in the playoffs for Edmonton, calling him horrendous is pretty weird. And yes Marner gets points in the playoffs but much less so than during the regular season. He also puts up most of his points in the first 4 games and then becomes a non-factor so in terms of helping us win playoff games, he hasn't been as helpful as raw point totals might suggest.

Based on playoff performance, there's not much difference between Marner since Hyman joined EDM and Marner's cap hit is twice as big.

Nothing…….nothing fix’s the problem of spending to much of the cap on 4 core forwards that can’t get it done in the playoffs. No amount of excuses changes that. 1 round win in 8 years and some here still can’t fathom the team without any one of these guys and want to give them even more money……my god how did we get here. 2 words, Shanny, Dubas.
They will go down in history as the two that bungled what could have been one of the best rebuilds in most of our lives……sImply pathetic

It's hard to explain, isn't it!

 

[Menzinger]

I don't think people become top players in the league by not being competitive.

He looks frustrated to me out there, I am sure he still wants to hit it.

Having said that, I think his play at the start of the year was unsustainable, and I think he is playing poorly currently and this won't be the status quo either.

He is likely good for 90+ points a season moving forward, but probably not 100+ (may be an outlier or two).

He's also had two goals called back in the last few games too.

Nylander often can't win..either folks are pointing to non-boxscore stuff about his game to critique him. Or they'll have no problem pointing to the box score when it suits them

 

[Racer88]

Yeah, I might not either.


Hyman's been pretty great in the playoffs for Edmonton, calling him horrendous is pretty weird. And yes Marner gets points in the playoffs but much less so than during the regular season. He also puts up most of his points in the first 4 games and then becomes a non-factor so in terms of helping us win playoff games, he hasn't been as helpful as raw point totals might suggest.

Based on playoff performance, there's not much difference between Marner since Hyman joined EDM and Marner's cap hit is twice as big.


It's hard to explain, isn't it!

It defy’s all logic. I’m just a fan and I think so are you, as are many of us. I don’t want to cast shadow on some but my Goodness eyes need to be opened

 

[Jojalu]

Yeah, I might not either.


Hyman's been pretty great in the playoffs for Edmonton, calling him horrendous is pretty weird. And yes Marner gets points in the playoffs but much less so than during the regular season. He also puts up most of his points in the first 4 games and then becomes a non-factor so in terms of helping us win playoff games, he hasn't been as helpful as raw point totals might suggest.

Based on playoff performance, there's not much difference between Marner since Hyman joined EDM and Marner's cap hit is twice as big.


It's hard to explain, isn't it!

I believe he said Hyman was bad here. Which he was.

Twice he probably should have been sitting due to injury, but he has certainly taken off in Edm. Including the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

Hyman's been pretty great in the playoffs for Edmonton, calling him horrendous is pretty weird. And yes Marner gets points in the playoffs but much less so than during the regular season. He also puts up most of his points in the first 4 games and then becomes a non-factor so in terms of helping us win playoff games, he hasn't been as helpful as raw point totals might suggest.

Based on playoff performance, there's not much difference between Marner since Hyman joined EDM and Marner's cap hit is twice as big.

Hyman before McDavid started bouncing pucks off of him had 5 goals, 8 assists, and 13 points in 32 games with Toronto in the playoffs.

It is weird that people complained about him leaving and never brought up his horrendous playoff stats.

Marner and Matthews also seem to be more productive in the playoffs in the last two years since Hyman was taken off their wing.

I think this is more coincidence than anything else, but why are we pretending like our players suck in the playoffs and Hyman is some amazing player... he was not producing here at all and if we are just going by raw numbers, it looks like he was bringing down Matthews and Marner.

 

[cipher]

Outside of the coach, the biggest change this team will be making in the near future is spending the 11M tied up with JT on one or two players who can consistently impact our team. A core 3 with a much more improved base is the best path forward.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I believe he said Hyman was bad here. Which he was.

Twice he probably should have been sitting due to injury, but he has certainly taken off in Edm. Including the playoffs.

Hyman wasn't "bad here", far from it. Not as good as he's been since then, but that's not the point.

Hyman before McDavid started bouncing pucks off of him had 5 goals, 8 assists, and 13 points in 32 games with Toronto in the playoffs.

It is weird that people complained about him leaving and never brought up his horrendous playoff stats.

Marner and Matthews also seem to be more productive in the playoffs in the last two years since Hyman was taken off their wing.

I think this is more coincidence than anything else, but why are we pretending like our players suck in the playoffs and Hyman is some amazing player... he was not producing here at all and if we are just going by raw numbers, it looks like he was bringing down Matthews and Marner.

Not saying Hyman's an amazing player. I'm saying that over the last two playoffs, Hyman with a ton of cap space to spend elsewhere would have been more valuable to us than Marner

 

[notbias]

Hyman wasn't "bad here", far from it. Not as good as he's been since then, but that's not the point.

Not saying Hyman's an amazing player. I'm saying that over the last two playoffs, Hyman with a ton of cap space to spend elsewhere would have been more valuable to us than Marner

Hyman without McDavid has proven not to be a good playoff performer, so unless the extra cap space got McDavid, we are getting 3rd/4th line production for 5.5 million from Hyman.

Once again, I don't think this is Hyman's actual level of play... but it is how he played here, he was producing at a 33pt pace over 82 games in the playoffs.

And since Hyman was moved and no longer played with Marner, Marner is producing at a 100pt pace in the playoffs.

 

[Apex Predator]

Didn’t Hyman play one playoff year with an acl tear or something? I remember Babcock using him a centre late in the series.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Even if we were to use it to overpay free agents, not sure that would be any worse than overpaying the guys we already have who are proven playoff losers. Cap space can also be used in other ways, like keeping guys instead of losing them because we can't afford them.

I'm pretty sure Hyman could have been signed for 5 million, what if instead of Marner we had Hyman and 6 million in cap space to fix the D, are you sure we'd be worse off than we are now?

There are leaf fans on this board who believe Marner is a better playoff performer than Matthew Tkachuk

 

[Jojalu]

Didn’t Hyman play one playoff year with an acl tear or something? I remember Babcock using him a centre late in the series.

There was that series plus one more where he was pretty badly injured.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

completely agree, however losing Marner doesn't fix Styles being grossly overpaid, it's going to be a long eight years for that mistake to go away..............

The only bright side is as of now it’s (Nylander)the only long term contract issue.
We don’t have to commit long term to any of the other golden girls. If current or new management has decided they’ve seen enough we can still alter our near future course.

It would upset a good portion of hf leaf posters but I wouldn’t blame them at all.

 

[notbias]

There are leaf fans on this board who believe Marner is a better playoff performer than Matthew Tkachuk

Until last year Tkachuk was known as a playoff bust... so it is kind of understandable.

 

[Jojalu]

The only bright side is as of now it’s (Nylander)the only long term contract issue.
We don’t have to commit long term to any of the other golden girls. If current or new management has decided they’ve seen enough we can still alter our near future course.

It would upset a good portion of hf leaf posters but I wouldn’t blame them at all.

Would people really be upset?

If you look back over Toronto's sports history, a shakeup to the core is what brought both the Jays and Raptors a Championship.

It always sucks losing a player you have cheered on for many years but if it makes the team better and leads to success then all will forget

 

[PromisedLand]

like i said:
core changes
keefe fired
shanny fired

pretty major to me. you seem confused

Not to say its impossible but probability of trading either Matthews, Marner or Nylander is pretty close to zero with their full NMCs and NTCs

Only option would be to let Marner walk as a UFA if they really want a core change

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Would people really be upset?

If you look back over Toronto's sports history, a shakeup to the core is what brought both the Jays and Raptors a Championship.

It always sucks losing a player you have cheered on for many years but if it makes the team better and leads to success then all will forget

Pretty sure there would be a good portion that would be.
I mostly see the same 30-40ish names that are open to large scale change. Most want 1 guy (usually Tavares) to be moved and feel it’s a solution with others suggesting a change behind the bench would suffice.
It might be an even split but I have no doubt some pitchforks would get a workout.

 

[Jojalu]

Pretty sure there would be a good portion that would be.
I mostly see the same 30-40ish names that are open to large scale change. Most want 1 guy (usually Tavares) to be moved and feel it’s a solution with others suggesting a change behind the bench would suffice.
It might be an even split but I have no doubt some pitchforks would get a workout.

I think the initial shock of the trade would have people blowing up the boards. Then the debate of if the trade was a win, followed by some pointing out said player''s stats every second night. So maybe you are correct. Lol

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hyman without McDavid has proven not to be a good playoff performer, so unless the extra cap space got McDavid, we are getting 3rd/4th line production for 5.5 million from Hyman.

Once again, I don't think this is Hyman's actual level of play... but it is how he played here, he was producing at a 33pt pace over 82 games in the playoffs.

And since Hyman was moved and no longer played with Marner, Marner is producing at a 100pt pace in the playoffs.

Hyman's a player who just keeps improving every year. He did it when he was with the Leafs and kept on improving after we decided we couldn't afford to to keep him. But whatever, if you think he's nothing more than someone who does nothing more than let McDavid bounce pucks off him than there's nothing more to say here besides agree to disagree.

The point isn't what players have done in the past, it's projecting what they will do in the future and it's pretty clear that if they do it over again, the Leafs would have kept Hyman.

 

[notbias]

Hyman's a player who just keeps improving every year. He did it when he was with the Leafs and kept on improving after we decided we couldn't afford to to keep him. But whatever, if you think he's nothing more than someone who does nothing more than let McDavid bounce pucks off him than there's nothing more to say here besides agree to disagree.

The point isn't what players have done in the past, it's projecting what they will do in the future and it's pretty clear that if they do it over again, the Leafs would have kept Hyman.

Hyman was on a downward trajectory with the Leafs... we can agree to disagree, but his playoff production was best in his first two seasons.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Especially if Marner has a disappointing playoff, I would expect he is traded this offseason and we bring back Bertuzzi and Domi and use the rest of our cap left to add 8-9M worth of D.

 

[TheDoldrums]

What can they really change? Matthews, Marner and Nylander have NMCs and they love it in Toronto. The GM hasn’t even had a year yet. Even if you fire Shanny and Keefe, those won’t feel like massive changes to the on ice product.

 

[rumman]

Not to say its impossible but probability of trading either Matthews, Marner or Nylander is pretty close to zero with their full NMCs and NTCs

Only option would be to let Marner walk as a UFA if they really want a core change

Letting JT and Marner walk fixes galf the core, but I would gave preferred having the option of not resigning Styles especially go that albatross if a contract…….

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

The fact of the matter is we have 1 top pair defenseman and 1 top 4 defenseman with not a lot of term left.

Schenn may be the best partner Rielly has had in a long time.

Whose our best defensive prospect? Topi? Hirvonen? Webber?

 

[Gary Nylund]

The fact of the matter is we have 1 top pair defenseman and 1 top 4 defenseman with not a lot of term left.

Schenn may be the best partner Rielly has had in a long time.

Whose our best defensive prospect? Topi? Hirvonen? Webber?

I'm pretty sure Hirvonen's a forward. But yeah, our D is a HUGE concern, both present and future.