For a cheap 23 year old that's on pace for 15-20 even strength goals with the minutes and linemates he's gotten this year? A 3rd would be very light.
Minnesota Wild General Discussion X
- Thread starter chchelseII
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- Dec 10, 2012
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Not sure how you came to the conclusion that their values are different, both of them have accomplished very little in the NHL, but in general, Donato has looked like he has the much higher offensive ceiling.
Saga of the Elk
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I think that's a minority opinion. Greenway, for one thing, has more points, in a lesser role. He's younger, which is important. He's bigger, which NHL teams obviously like. He's a better playmaker and plays a far more effective game, even if it leaves an observer wanting at times.
Donato hangs out in the gym but doesn't work out...allegedly. He's careless with the puck, he's weak in board battles. He's an average skater. Supposedly a great guy who definitely has a quality release...but he's shown that he's a tweener. I don't know if a 3rd is a reasonable value for that... I kind of think it is isn't.
I don't mind the idea of selling Greenway by the way... the Rangers are having issues with guys like Buchnevich and Lias Andersson and Kravtsov... I think there could be the framework of a deal there.
Dickie Dunn
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I feel like I watch a decent amount of Wild hockey and the number of times that Greenway has stood out offensively seems rare. Doesn't mean that he doesn't play well but I rarely get the feeling that he will ever be a dangerous O-zone player. Donato has flaws but he also has more moments of doing something.....anything offensively.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I'd keep Greenway over Donato, but I think it's a stretch to say that the former's been in a lesser role.
Greenway's spent most of the year with Ek and Kunin on the 3rd line, which has gotten a ton of minutes. Donato's been everywhere from the 2nd line to the 4th line to the 1st line to the bench, at all three forward positions. Greenway's averaging 4 more minutes per game than Donato.
Saga of the Elk
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Greenway has gotten less power play time, is what I meant. Neither guy is in a feature role, so I'd agree that Donato has been a bit more dangerous thus far in his Wild career. But as for upside: it takes a bigger guy like Greenway more time to develop his core strength, learn that he can win battles, etc. Trading him risks trading a poor man's Blake Wheeler/Dustin Penner type too soon. I really don't see much in Donato.
Donato has like 12 more PP minutes than Greenway.
Greenway has 158 more even strength minutes than Donato.
I agree with your broader point, but comparing their usage this year doesn't do Greenway many favors.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I don’t see that in Greenway. Look at what Wheeler was doing at Greenway’s age. Look at a guy like Mantha now who was scoring more at that age. Big guys don’t always take longer to develop. And Greenway hasn’t shown much in the way of higher end offense at any level. He can’t stick with Staal and Greenway. The Ek line took off offensively when Greenway was replaced with Foligno of all people.
I don’t see anything more than a third liner in Greenway on this team. Especially if you anticipate guys like Kaprizov and Boldy to reach expectations for the most part. Donato has shown a bigger knack for goal scoring when he does get opportunities. Even if he hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire here yet.
Saga of the Elk
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Pretty much just saying that a smart, good team will find a way for Greenway to thrive in the top six. He's got a unique blend of size and skill. Donato is a tweener, an improvement on a Teemu Pulkkinen but not much more. And it infuriates me, and certainly the coaches, when he coughs up pucks roughly as much as Kevin Fiala.
Wheeler had 45 points - not sure who exactly he spent most of his time with, but Boston's centers were Bergeron, Krejci and Marc Savard... I love JEE, but ... Greenway is on pace for 30-odd? It's no stretch to think he could do more with better. (Not saying his deployment has been wrong, either, I just think he's got room for improvement.)
Wheeler had 45 points - not sure who exactly he spent most of his time with, but Boston's centers were Bergeron, Krejci and Marc Savard... I love JEE, but ... Greenway is on pace for 30-odd? It's no stretch to think he could do more with better. (Not saying his deployment has been wrong, either, I just think he's got room for improvement.)
- Dec 10, 2012
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I’d agree he has room for improvement. I think Donato, Fiala, Kunin and Ek all have room for improvement. And I can’t deny that Greenway brings an element to the roster that isn’t found elsewhere. I also have to admit that if guys like Boldy, Kaprizov, Fiala, Beckman, Firstov, whatever end up becoming impact players on this team, Greenway’s assets would be a more enticing feature in the bottom 6 than Donato. I have no issue with moving either of them, frankly. I just see higher OFFENSIVE upside with Donato than Greenway, personally.
Donato may have a higher ceiling, but he also has a lower floor and a better chance of hitting the floor than the ceiling. Greenway doesn't have a higher ceiling than Donato, but a better floor.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Next year our forward depth looks like this...
LW
Parise
Zucker
Fiala
Kaprizov
Greenway
Foligno
Donato
RW
Zucc
Kunin
Hartman
C
Staal
Ek
Rask
Sturm
Pretty much the only true 4th liners on this list are Foligno and Hartman. Rask and Sturm could play the 4th line spot but to me Rask = bad fit, Sturm= if they like him probably don't play him on the 4th line? but an option. Everyone else should be playing in the top 9. So that leaves between 10-12 players for the top 9 spots (depending on what you think of them as players I would say rask = top 9, sturm= haven't seen enough. So to me that leaves 11 people for 9 spots. Here is who I would most like to see traded in order.
1. Staal- declining, good contract, still produces, probably decent value.
2. Parise- declining, injury prone, still produces.
3. Zucc- Doesn't fit the timeline in this hypothetical, plan of mine. Produces, should have decent value.
4. Rask- Not good enough to play in top 9 so I mean duh.
5. Zucker- Solid player, fast, good shot.
6. Donato- Skilled, fast, young, probably would like to hang onto him.
7. Greenway- Big bodied, skilled player who is 22? seems like a trade that would bite so hard.
8. Kunin- Right shot, young, improving, not gonna trade.
9. Ek- I think will top at Koivu, already hit floor.
10. Fiala- very good player imo. Exactly what this team needs.
11. Kaprizov- I'm not gonna trade him without seeing him first, waited to long.
Now here's the thing. In all actuality the top 4 on that list aren't going anywhere. So I guess to me you trade Zucker and Donato and clear up your log jam at LW a little bit, still would be 5-3 LW- RW. Not sure what that does in terms of direction as you lose an old guy in Mikko, a middle ager in Zucker, and a young guy in Donato but hey not my mess.
LW
Parise
Zucker
Fiala
Kaprizov
Greenway
Foligno
Donato
RW
Zucc
Kunin
Hartman
C
Staal
Ek
Rask
Sturm
Pretty much the only true 4th liners on this list are Foligno and Hartman. Rask and Sturm could play the 4th line spot but to me Rask = bad fit, Sturm= if they like him probably don't play him on the 4th line? but an option. Everyone else should be playing in the top 9. So that leaves between 10-12 players for the top 9 spots (depending on what you think of them as players I would say rask = top 9, sturm= haven't seen enough. So to me that leaves 11 people for 9 spots. Here is who I would most like to see traded in order.
1. Staal- declining, good contract, still produces, probably decent value.
2. Parise- declining, injury prone, still produces.
3. Zucc- Doesn't fit the timeline in this hypothetical, plan of mine. Produces, should have decent value.
4. Rask- Not good enough to play in top 9 so I mean duh.
5. Zucker- Solid player, fast, good shot.
6. Donato- Skilled, fast, young, probably would like to hang onto him.
7. Greenway- Big bodied, skilled player who is 22? seems like a trade that would bite so hard.
8. Kunin- Right shot, young, improving, not gonna trade.
9. Ek- I think will top at Koivu, already hit floor.
10. Fiala- very good player imo. Exactly what this team needs.
11. Kaprizov- I'm not gonna trade him without seeing him first, waited to long.
Now here's the thing. In all actuality the top 4 on that list aren't going anywhere. So I guess to me you trade Zucker and Donato and clear up your log jam at LW a little bit, still would be 5-3 LW- RW. Not sure what that does in terms of direction as you lose an old guy in Mikko, a middle ager in Zucker, and a young guy in Donato but hey not my mess.
Donato is a poor defensive player. Greenway is above average, and brilliant some games. There is a reason that this team is a bad defensive team. It's not all on the goalies. Parise, Staal, Zucker, Hartman, Fiala, and Lizard are average defensively. DoNato and Raks are poor. Folingo, JEE, Greenway, Koivu, and maybe Kunin are above average.
We lost a ton of defense when we traded Coyle, Granlund, and Nino.
Our team is not great offensively, but not punchless, but we are a lot worse than people realize when it comes to team defense.
We lost a ton of defense when we traded Coyle, Granlund, and Nino.
Our team is not great offensively, but not punchless, but we are a lot worse than people realize when it comes to team defense.
Dee Oh Cee
Registered User
Huh? Yeah I don't see that at all. The PK has been terrible but at 5 on 5 every stat points to the team limiting high danger chances against better than almost anyone else in the league. Out of the numerous issues this team has team defense seems to be at the very bottom of the list. Boudreau's system just simply doesn't allow a high number of good chances against (even if it allows a higher than average amount of shots against).
sure, it's not all on the goalies, but a huge amount of it is. Any average NHL goalie finds a way to win that Florida game. With average NHL goaltending through 49 games this team would very likely have at least 5 more wins.
sure, it's not all on the goalies, but a huge amount of it is. Any average NHL goalie finds a way to win that Florida game. With average NHL goaltending through 49 games this team would very likely have at least 5 more wins.
I see where you are coming from, it's not winning battles like EK or Foligno. I just think what he lacks in physical prowess he makes up for in hands. He is clever with the puck.
He can be and he's had some nice plays with his stick along the boards this year, but I haven't seen it from him all that often. He's usually game to go to the dirty areas and take whatever punishment he has to, but he's also been easy to knock off the puck or rub out along the boards. A lot of possession ends up dying on his stick because of it.
He'll probably never be strong enough to fight through checks or slippery enough to weave around them, but I do think he can be smarter with the puck. I think that's another place where being thrown around in the lineup all year hasn't done him any favors.
Imo donato has been a far better player this year. Greenway hasnt showed those flashes of taking over a game this year. He always looks slow out there. As for trades, both of them are gone if the deal is right. I dont see one being more valuable than the other. But if I had to choose, I'm going with donato.
"The Wild desperately need skilled young players."
<skilled young players added>
"...but they can't grind!"
<skilled young players added>
"...but they can't grind!"
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