Minnesota Wild General Discussion X

[TaLoN]

Ice time?

Most of the time he's spent in the top 6, he doesn't look like a player that belongs in the top 6 in the NHL.

I've described him repeatedly this year as a square peg for many round holes. As is, he doesn't fit anywhere on the team.

And maybe they joke about him being in the weight room and not working out because they know it’s a weakness he’s actively addressing.

Then you'd expect to see progression in strength on the season. He is as weak today as he was in training camp.

 

[AKL]

Then you'd expect to see progression in strength on the season. He is as weak today as he was in training camp.

I don’t know what else to say. You seem to have all the answers.

I’m clearly at a disadvantage having not been inside the Wild locker room these last four months.

 

[Bazeek]

My point with the snark wasn't so much that Donato's above criticism because he's got some offensive skill. If he fails to grow his game from where it is now then I don't think he has much of a future in the NHL.

What drives me a little crazy is the expectation that he's going to have much success growing his game while being juggled around the lineup, or that every young player is going to have success working their way up from the 3rd/4th line. That works for some players (like Ek, Kunin and Greenway) but it doesn't for others (Fiala, Donato, and probably Granlund). And since it's generally been that latter group that this team struggles to find it's really weird to see so little patience with those guys.

We saw the same complaints about Fiala when he was getting scratched and struggling on the 4th line. He never did have success there. It was only once he was put in a place to play to his strengths that he actually started to do so, and as a consequence we saw him tighten up on things like turnovers.

It's the same thing with Donato except that he probably won't have the same opportunity available to him long term. He had some time at LW in the top-6 and wasn't great, but has had some good games at center. It's been a weird year for him, but the idea that we'd be lucky to get a 3rd for him just seems nuts to me. It's like rushing to sell a sports car for cheap because it's ****y in the snow and you've never tried it on the track.

 

[TaLoN]

I don’t know what else to say. You seem to have all the answers.

I’m clearly at a disadvantage having not been inside the Wild locker room these last four months.

I don't have all the answers. I said I'm concerned. You haven't pointed to anything to alleviate my concerns.

You're not concerned, and that's fine.

 

[AKL]

I don't have all the answers. I said I'm concerned. You haven't pointed to anything to alleviate my concerns.

You're not concerned, and that's fine.

I’m concerned, I’m just not going to presume to know what he’s working on, what he’s not, what kind of work ethic he has behind closed doors. Especially not from a lighthearted player poll when guys on teams and in locker rooms notoriously mess with each other for fun. I’m not taking it as any indication one way or the other.

You’re using it to confirm your concerns. That’s the real difference here.

 

[TaLoN]

We saw the same complaints about Fiala when he was getting scratched and struggling on the 4th line. He never did have success there. It was only once he was put in a place to play to his strengths that he actually started to do so, and as a consequence we saw him tighten up on things like turnovers.

He started the season in the top 6... he was demoted because he was a disaster for several games there. He was up and down the lineup based on his decision making. It improved, he got more top 6 time, it reverted, he got less.

It's natural development pains. He's a much better player today, so something the coaches are doing must be getting through to him about his decisions.

I’m concerned, I’m just not going to presume to know what he’s working on, what he’s not, what kind of work ethic he has behind closed doors. Especially not from a lighthearted player poll when guys on teams and in locker rooms notoriously mess with each other for fun. I’m not taking it as any indication one way or the other.

You’re using it to confirm your concerns. That’s the real difference here.

I never said it confirms a thing. I haven't said I've decided a thing. I've said he can change several times. What I have said, is these appear like signs of maybe something concerning.

You want to take my concerns and say I've already made a final decision, that's not at all the case. I'm just not confident about his path at this point.

I'm saying, signs I'm seeing are putting him in danger of following Spooner's path. I explicitly argued against someone in this very thread that said he is who he is, because he's not yet.

 

[Bazeek]

He started the season in the top 6... he was demoted because he was a disaster for several games there. He was up and down the lineup based on his decision making. It improved, he got more top 6 time, it reverted, he got less.

It's natural development pains. He's a much better player today, so something the coaches are doing must be getting through to him about his decisions.

And while Fiala has generally been rewarded/punished based on his play, Donato's generally been played where they had to fit him in due to injuries/other players struggling/whatever. I think most of those decisions have been justifiable, but it kind of sucks to turn around and act like it's due to something he's doing. It'd be like complaining about Seeler sucking this year when all of the scratches have relatively little to do with him.

 

[TaLoN]

And while Fiala has generally been rewarded/punished based on his play, Donato's generally been played where they had to fit him in due to injuries/other players struggling/whatever. I think most of those decisions have been justifiable, but it kind of sucks to turn around and act like it's due to something he's doing. It'd be like complaining about Seeler sucking this year when all of the scratches have relatively little to do with him.

Like I said, he's a square peg for a bunch of round holes.

He's not a top 6 NHL player at this point, but he certainly isn't suited to a bottom 6 role. He's waiver eligible, so he can't be sent down where he likely belongs to work on things.

 

[Bazeek]

Like I said, he's a square peg for a bunch of round holes.

He's not a top 6 NHL player at this point, but he certainly isn't suited to a bottom 6 role. He's waiver eligible, so he can't be sent down where he likely belongs to work on things.

And I'm not arguing against trading him. We have to move a winger and if we have to choose between bad trades for Zucker, Foligno, Greenway or Donato, I'd take the crappy Donato trade over the others.

I am arguing against setting expectations for him as though he were a completely different kind of player.

 

[TaLoN]

And I'm not arguing against trading him. We have to move a winger and if we have to choose between bad trades for Zucker, Foligno, Greenway or Donato, I'd take the crappy Donato trade over the others.

I am arguing against setting expectations for him as though he were a completely different kind of player.

I don't think anyone had brought up any sort of expectations in this conversation. Only discussing the weakness they see in his game.

 

[Bazeek]

I don't think anyone had brought up any sort of expectations in this conversation. Only discussing the weakness they see in his game.

There have been posts scattered across this board and the trade board for months that strongly imply otherwise, but I'll drop it.

 

[TaLoN]

There have been posts scattered across this board and the trade board for months that strongly imply otherwise, but I'll drop it.

Ok, that I agree with, hard to have expectations for a guy who can't find a fit.

I was just talking about the discussion over the last page or so today, which centered on his weakness on the puck.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Tell ya what - if Dubs gets on a roll, this could be a very interesting team.

 

[Wabit]

Tell ya what - if Dubs gets on a roll, this could be a very interesting team.

He's already rolling downhill...

 

[Webster]

Trade deadline getting close, my guess is Donato is in his last month as a Wild.

 

[TaLoN]

Trade deadline getting close, my guess is Donato is in his last month as a Wild.

He, Zucker and Brodin are the most likely suspects.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Trade deadline getting close, my guess is Donato is in his last month as a Wild.

Probably will not get much value for him. Rather just run him as 2nd line center the rest of the year to prove or disprove whether he can be a center in this league and pump back up his value.

 

[P10p]

Who knows? But so far he hasn't it seems. The issues he was having in Boston has followed him to Minnesota. There is a reason why he got moved. He's also turning 24 this year, so...by the time Granlund was 24, he had 4 years of NHL/AHL experience and around 300 games under his belt. Donato is going to have 113 games in 3 years...so you tell me? Granlund was still developing, Donato may develop, but physically he probably has or doesn't have much further growth.

Using granlund games played against donatas games played is probably the most ridiculous argument you can make. Granlund was seen as our saviour and was soon fed opportunities when he first arrived. Donato on the other hand had to pay his dues and work his way up.

 

[P10p]

If he was strong on the puck away from the boards, I would agree... but he's weak on the puck across the board. You even skate by him too fast and the breeze knocks him off the puck... he's just weak period.

He doesn't have to grind, but he needs more strength to use his skill.

Rask replaced him on the second line because of that weakness.

I love how your argument is "weak on the puck". Something that you cant provide real substantial data on. From my eyes, Donato has made some very slippery plays and shows great speed. All while not looking weak on the puck.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Using granlund games played against donatas games played is probably the most ridiculous argument you can make. Granlund was seen as our saviour and was soon fed opportunities when he first arrived. Donato on the other hand had to pay his dues and work his way up.

They are both offensively gifted, but smaller players in the NHL. If Granlund didn't work on his game, he would have fizzled out. Saviour or not, Granlund had to get stronger and learn to adapt - something that Donato has not yet.

 

[MuckOG]

Probably will not get much value for him. Rather just run him as 2nd line center the rest of the year to prove or disprove whether he can be a center in this league and pump back up his value.

I agree. I don't see how him being healthy scratch game in and game out helps him or the Wild. It doesn't help him because he's not developing, and it doesn't help the Wild because the longer he sits the worse his value becomes on the trade market.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

When most posters here think something, it's fair to be skeptical. Even when it's a collection of voices who have watched hockey all their lives, written about it in a paid capacity, devoted countless hours of free-time to it. Maybe we're all just wrong?

But when that opinion is shared and carried out by an NHL coaching staff, maybe the fact is Donato just kind of sucks??? No matter how good of a guy... he's a player the Bruins were delighted to trade for a third-line center.

He doesn't play because he doesn't help the team as much as Victor Rask, 2020 Koivu, Hartman, et al. help the team. Donato is a tweener. His trade value is another Donato.

 

[Bazeek]

When most posters here think something, it's fair to be skeptical. Even when it's a collection of voices who have watched hockey all their lives, written about it in a paid capacity, devoted countless hours of free-time to it. Maybe we're all just wrong?

But when that opinion is shared and carried out by an NHL coaching staff, maybe the fact is Donato just kind of sucks??? No matter how good of a guy... he's a player the Bruins were delighted to trade for a third-line center.

He doesn't play because he doesn't help the team as much as Victor Rask, 2020 Koivu, Hartman, et al. help the team. Donato is a tweener. His trade value is another Donato.

Possible, though if we're arguing from authority there was at least one GM that was pretty sure he didn't suck and wanted him in the top-6. And whatever one thinks of Fenton his eye for hockey players doesn't seem to have been one of his failings.

I get why he gets short shrift from Boudreau on this team, at this point in time though. And why he'd have trouble cracking in with the Bruins.

 

[TaLoN]

I love how your argument is "weak on the puck". Something that you cant provide real substantial data on. From my eyes, Donato has made some very slippery plays and shows great speed. All while not looking weak on the puck.

Weak on the puck means when you are trying to go by a defender, you go into puck protection position (putting your body between the puck and the defender), but due to lack of strength, the defender knocks you off balance and is able to take the puck away more often than not.

That is what happens to Donato, causing frequent loss of possession.

Peter Forsberg was an extreme example of a player that was strong on the puck, this video is a great example of what that looks like when he has a defender draped all over him trying to knock him off the puck, but it's the defender that goes down while Forsberg continues skating and creates the goal.


I'm not asking him to be Peter Forsberg, but I'm asking him to not get knocked off the puck most every time he tries to puck protect. Help maintain possession instead of turning it over due to it.

Fiala is strong on the puck, Donato is not.

 

[Bazeek]

I wish we had better stats for giveaways and takeaways. Donato's pretty middle of the pack if you go by giveaways per minute of ice time, but those numbers are about as unreliable as it gets.